Captain Marvel vs. Gladiator

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
What context exactly? He punched a highly amped galactus.

I know yall love to literally shortchange every single thing done in Marvel every time.

But Gladiator got a good showing, how about the dc fans just ****ing deal with it for once instead of downplaying everything and trying to lowball everything.

I get that a few Marvel fans on here do the same damn thing but damn.

Gladiator punched a highly amped Galactus and got him to bleed. Then got wrecked. What other context is there?

Galactus was weakened. He was figuratively having the shits from absorbing Black Bolt....The figurative shits being bad enough to affect the entire universe.

It's like having a 12 year old fight Tyson in his prime.....Who's also amped with spiked boxing gloves. Except Tyson has just eaten a triple burrito, extra cheese and onion and heavy on the jalapeños.

12 year old gets his hits in, then gets destroyed. Suddenly all his fans are hyping him up to be a heavyweight championship contender. I mean, sure, it's a good feat for the 12 year old, but let's not pretend he's then on the level of Klitschko or Foreman.

Then in the previous issue, it's also spelled out that the laws of science are breaking down.

It's not downplaying. I'm literally laying out the scans.

Originally posted by leonidas
lol so your assertion is that superman holds back....more against cap, than cap does against him? proof that superman 'tries less'? are you kidding me with this take?

No, I'm not.

Originally posted by Philosophía
[B]This question is easy to answer and it is done so in two fold, because it takes an understanding of Superman's holding back.

1). The conscious holding back. Superman has only not held back against Doomsday [DoS] prior to OWAW
https://imgur.com/a/NGYvjEi
Superman instinctively pulls his punches, even in the most extreme situations. He has done so even against omnipotent Emperor Joker:
https://i.imgur.com/F9HucG7.jpg
It's the reason Supergirl looked more powerful at first, for example:
https://i.imgur.com/6W5evTM.jpg

2). The unconscious power reserves:
https://imgur.com/a/1xGQzmj
Superman's power in its actual raw sense is literally dependent on the state of his mind. He can even depower himself, as he has done post-Infinite Crisis, as it has been made clear time and time again. Like here:
https://imgur.com/a/DORhNLX
He has to have a specific mindset in order to access his power. By altering his mindset, his power surges and he accesses more of it:
https://i.imgur.com/XHMjDYR.jpg
This same surfer of hidden power [which Loeb is playing off there] was what happened in DoS, at the end when he killed Doomsday on his deathbed:
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/RogerSternNovelisation.jpg

On top of this, he actually gets more powerful in critical situations and absorbs more solar radiation:
https://imgur.com/AHwLy5C?fbclid=IwAR29BajZpqoQl6Uy-kE5VKUZ4CLa1minMfSd0DVLJpLu8sBwDaOFE4rPwWk

So, in essence, you have 3 levels:
1). Holding back consciously [i.e. pulling his punches]. Superman does it extremely so but, obviously, Captain Marvel does it, too.
2). Subconsciously holding back. Even if he is not holding back consciously, he subconsciously is not accessing his power.
3). Amping himself by also absorbing extra sunlight in emotional duress.

---

To give you an illustration of the levels we're talking about here, here is pre-OWAW Superman stalemating Captain Marvel [who was accessing both Hercules' strength and Atlas [who is normally for stamina] while the latter is clearly trying his hardest to beat him, as Supes is like "wtf?":
https://i.imgur.com/dnpENog.jpg

Here is Superman training with Mongul to access more of his power [from the previous stalemating Captain Marvel w/Hercules+Atlas levels]:
https://i.imgur.com/XHMjDYR.jpg

Here is Superman, after that training with Mongul, double-teaming an Imperiex Probe, and they barely take it to it:
https://imgur.com/a/eoYXZx6

Here is the [conscious] all-out non-holding back Superman against that same Imperiex Probe by his lonesome:
https://imgur.com/a/B7CGolH

Here is the [conscious + unconscious] all-out Superman against an army of probes and he goes through them like butter for days:
https://imgur.com/a/V55CDhg

Levels.

and just because eclipso didn't want to 'kill' billy doesn't mean he was holding back his strength when billy stopped his blitzing fist and matched his strength. wtf?

You seem to have rather short memory.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-cKl5K2pVl_M/W9GT-6esDoI/AAAAAAAAL4A/x-vr6Q-LonEpTE4L5BdaB1Hiz-oeYUxMQCHMYCw/s1600/RCO006.jpg

Eclipso straight up says that Cap is smart enough to see through his ruse.

Later Eclipso overpowered Cap and was choking him out before Cap headbutts him.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ThhDV7IAUmY/W9GUAGGtHkI/AAAAAAAAL4U/xquUjw_vYTsEuJQwiWR2kaBOjrX5A83NwCHMYCw/s1600/RCO010.jpg

And to top it, Superman tosses a ship with one hand which Cap has to struggle with both hands to stop.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-F9Tj8Q6R2aY/W9GT_HDU4rI/AAAAAAAAL4E/qs0Sn2zXGtkLtyrAmrcL4iZUBWTzydLsgCHMYCw/s1600/RCO007.jpg
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-9e-rX2R5_IU/W9GT_bxfCcI/AAAAAAAAL4M/m1a4pQQqYKE7SySSLHvV0MDDW9HzvMwoQCHMYCw/s1600/RCO008.jpg

It was made clear that Superman was stronger than Cap.

he wanted his body for a host which he deemed better than superman's. again, the clear, non-biased implication is that they are effectively equal. in the first fight billy was clearly holding back the whole time. in the second eclipso made it clear cm's body is better for him given its magical nature. but cm still held back against eclipso, yet still caught his fist and matched his strength, and no, i don't think he was holding back either time there. seriously.

You seem to have rather biased views here TBH.

Cap held back to almost death, eh?

and of course this is all about superman in this cm/glads thread. like it always is. have the last word because i won't propagate this typical turn of discussion. [/B]

This is fun.

Originally posted by leonidas
@phil: i'm not saying superman can't access power beyond billy--i'm saying in all their battles, they are shown as equals. a typical superman=cm. this isn't owaw superman we're talking about (shouldn't be superman at all) nor am i talking about an amped superman. superman, as normally shown, is matched by billy and has been repeatedly. i am also far from sure that those blockers remain in place while eclipsed....

as far as amping himself--he's been in plenty of situations and under tons of distress and yet NOT accessed those levels of power too. you're talking about 2 states of superman that are Atypical.

huh? i'm not the one who stated unequivocally that superman holds back against cm. i was curious if that was explicitly stated somewhere given the way he declared it as an apparent fact

I provided it. Hell I even spent [quite] some time fetching scans and detailing all the layers.

I even provided Superman [before he even knew how to access his power, nevermind all-out states] and Cap armwrestling to a stalemate - while Cap is using Hercules+Atlas AND clearly putting more into it due to frustration.

I don't know what exactly...is the next goalpost? That Eclipso, who is weak to sunlight and avoids it [lol.......?], a creature supplementing Superman's fully functional mind -- which is shown as being needed to access both his conscious and, another layer, unconscious power [....] -- is the equivalent of uber Superman?

You're also randomly saying stuff about how he rarely goes all-out --- no shit? He held back against Emperor Joker. All I've said above is consistent - his conscious holding back, his unconscious holding back, his power surges. This is across multiple writers, across multiple decades, across multiples titles. It's one of the most fundamentals fact about Superman. Scott Lobdell literally dealt with a mini-OWAW arc in the H'el arc. Greg Rucka had him go all-out against New 52 Doomsday in a "never before seen power display" etc.

If you mean "random, nice guy, every day Superman" has a "these are for charity" contests with Cap and they come out as equals, then yes. But Superman clearly goes to the stratosphere in terms of power compared to him when he really wants to.

😂... DC fans saying Galactus was weakened. Hilarious. Skrulls thinking the universe was going to end, Watchers going blind during the time he absorbed BB energy but he was weakened. Terrible.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
What context exactly? He punched a highly amped galactus.

I know yall love to literally shortchange every single thing done in Marvel every time.

But Gladiator got a good showing, how about the dc fans just ****ing deal with it for once instead of downplaying everything and trying to lowball everything.

I get that a few Marvel fans on here do the same damn thing but damn.

Gladiator punched a highly amped Galactus and got him to bleed. Then got wrecked. What other context is there?

Exactly.

Originally posted by carver9
😂... DC fans saying Galactus was weakened. Hilarious. Skrulls thinking the universe was going to end, Watchers going blind during the time he absorbed BB energy but he was weakened. Terrible.

Not a DC fan, but he was literally writhing in pain, and his figurative diarrhoea was messing the entire universe up.

Then Glads flies in and punches him. That's like a 12 year old landing punches on Tyson as he's on the floor pooping himself. Said poops being so bad the guy in the second row are being splattered.

Then Tyson gets back up, and destroys the 12 year old, perhaps the most powerful 12 year old he's ever fought.

The Supreme intelligence fight amnesia. The Watchers go blind. The Skrulls begin their end time rituals. Otherworld is infested with technology. Machines breath their last breath.

All of this happened because of the SUPPOSEDLY weakened Galactus...

https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/41686818/Doctor_Strange_016-013.jpg.html

Try harder.

Originally posted by carver9
The Supreme intelligence fight amnesia. The Watchers go blind. The Skrulls begin their end time rituals. Otherworld is infested with technology. Machines breath their last breath.

All of this happened because of the SUPPOSEDLY weakened Galactus...

https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/41686818/Doctor_Strange_016-013.jpg.html

Try harder.

I don't have to 'try harder', or even try at all....it's literally spelled out.

Tyson's just eaten a bad burrito, and his poops are so bad the ramifications are being felt around the stadium. The ringside girl has been KOd by the smell. The guy in the first row had it in his eye, blinding him. Guys in the 2nd row are throwing up.

And all this takes place at a time when the rules of science are literally being rewritten.

But yeah, that 12 ye old totally rocks, and should challenge all the other boxers for the heavyweight championship belt....

Moments after this, it was outright said Living Tribunal knew fear...

https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/41686822/Doctor_Strange_016-017.jpg.html

Some weakness.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I don't have to 'try harder', or even try at all....it's literally spelled out.

Tyson's just eaten a bad burrito, and his poops are so bad the ramifications are being felt around the stadium. The ringside girl has been KOd by the smell. The guy in the first row had it in his eye, blinding him. Guys in the 2nd row are throwing up.

And all this takes place at a time when the rules of science are literally being rewritten.

Took place during the time Galactus was about to destroy everything and had a multiversal level being in fear. A 12 yr old vs an Adult isnt a great comparison. Herald tier vs Abstracts is SIGNIFICANT. You should be able to cut an Abstract power in half and a Herald still shouldn't be able to even tickle them. Galactus was at a level where the most powerful being in the Universe feared him. Gladiator drawing blood from this type of being speaks volumes. Gladiator punching him so hard that every bone in the universe shook speaks volumes. Gladiator baking his skin speaks volumes. Gladiator temporarily powering through his attack speaks volumes.

Originally posted by carver9
Moments after this, it was outright said Living Tribunal knew fear...

https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/41686822/Doctor_Strange_016-017.jpg.html

Some weakness.

Because after that, he wasn't weakened anymore?

Why is this so hard to understand lol.

Originally posted by carver9
Took place during the time Galactus was about to destroy everything and had a multiversal level being in fear. A 12 yr old vs an Adult isnt a great comparison. Herald tier vs Abstracts is SIGNIFICANT. You should be able to cut an Abstract power in half and a Herald still shouldn't be able to even tickle them. Galactus was at a level where the most powerful being in the Universe feared him. Gladiator drawing blood from this type of being speaks volumes. Gladiator punching him so hard that every bone in the universe shook speaks volumes. Gladiator baking his skin speaks volumes. Gladiator temporarily powering through his attack speaks volumes.

He was at that level AFTER the fight with Gladiator.

Jesus wept lol.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
He was at that level AFTER the fight with Gladiator.

Jesus wept lol.

So he became weakened and then became so powerful that he put fear into Living Tribunal? How did that happen?

Originally posted by carver9
So he became weakened and then became so powerful that he put fear into Living Tribunal? How did that happen?

He absorbed the entire shi at guard, PLUS all of Earth's heroes and anyone else who was still knocking about.

Strange says marching thousands upon thousands to their death was the hardest thing he had done, but he needed them to fight and have the will, to be at Max energy so they could overcharge Glads.

Did you read the comic at all?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
He absorbed the entire shi at guard, PLUS all of Earth's heroes and anyone else who was still knocking about.

Strange says marching thousands upon thousands to their death was the hardest thing he had done, but he needed them to fight and have the will, to be at Max energy so they could overcharge Glads.

Did you read the comic at all?

Again, he absorbed a HELL LORD, Dormammu along with other beings before this. Him absorbing Herald level characters (a couple of trans) doesnt add up to him becoming powerful enough to put fear into the Living Tribunal. You're better than this. Also, if he was so weakened, how was he able to withstand a punch that shook the bones in every being in the Universe?

😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 watching saint add his imaginary context to lowball the feat is truly hilarious.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 watching saint add his imaginary context to lowball the feat is truly hilarious.

Hes trying extremely hard. Darksaint target characters are Hulk and Gladiator. Anything good they do, he excuses it. Primarily attack Marvel characters but those two are his main peeps.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Wtf, who said it....are you being deliberately stupid?

If you have the shits from something bad you ate.... you're telling me you're at 100% fighting shape? When it's so bad you're doubled over in pain? Wtf.

He absorbed thousands upon thousands. So it would have been literally every hero in the universe.

As for the punch....the laws of science were literally being rewritten. You trying to make some scientific gauge is hilarious.

Btw, just so you both know, have reported both of you.

Wait, so you report someone but in the same post above me, you call someone stupid?

I asked if you were being deliberate about it.

IOW, there's no way you can be stupid about it. If anything, I'm saying you're the direct opposite of stupid.