Who is the best guitarist of all time??

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

The very fact that you say he's so far under the radar proves that while he's amazing, and he is, he hasn't had that much of an impact for anyone to notice his hypothetical removal.

-AC

Thats the whole quote. I did read it under context, I read it serveral times even, to make sure I didnt misunderstand you. I read that very carefully. How am I supposed to take that? It seems you put your own foot in your mouth. If that had some other kind of meaning other than how it reads, I think you need to clarify.

I did just do that, and seeing as we were discussing general music and rock music, it was implied that "anyone" was the general populace of music fans.

Even well knowledged, veteran music sages might not be so into classical that his removal would yield impact on them.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I did just do that, and seeing as we were discussing general music and rock music, it was implied that "anyone" was the general populace of music fans.

Even well knowledged, veteran music sages might not be so into classical that his removal would yield impact on them.

-AC

Yeah well "anyone" is a pretty absolute word , pal.Be carfull with that one next time. I can't read your mind, like you can't read mine, so If you would have said "the general population of music fans" I would have agreed with you. I understand what you're saying NOW. Of course your 'average joe' wouldn't know or even care who Segovia was. Even if the general population does not realize his impact , its still there.

Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
Yeah well "anyone" is a pretty absolute word , pal.Be carfull with that one next time. I can't read your mind, like you can't read mine, so If you would have said "the general population of music fans" I would have agreed with you. I understand what you're saying NOW. Of course your 'average joe' wouldn't know or even care who Segovia was. Even if the general population does not realize his impact , its still there.

No, you be "carfull" with how you interpret people's posts. You've already messed up a few times and lacked the good grace to admit it, don't let this be another time. It's a broad word, but the context made it clear. You chose every other meaning except the one that mattered, you are to blame.

It's not still there, is it? Just because people play guitar, it's silly to assume the impact of Segovia.

Giving him due respect is one thing, giving him credit he doesn't deserve is quite another. If I pick up a guitar, he hasn't inspired or influenced me, so why should he get credit? I respect what he did, but that doesn't mean he should get credit for shit he didn't do.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
No, you be "carfull" with how you interpret people's posts. You've already messed up a few times and lacked the good grace to admit it, don't let this be another time. It's a broad word, but the context made it clear. You chose every other meaning except the one that mattered, you are to blame.

It's not still there, is it? Just because people play guitar, it's silly to assume the impact of Segovia.

Giving him due respect is one thing, giving him credit he doesn't deserve is quite another. If I pick up a guitar, he hasn't inspired or influenced me, so why should he get credit? I respect what he did, but that doesn't mean he should get credit for shit he didn't do.

-AC

Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
What? You're expecting me to read your mind now? What an idiot.

Hahaha, oh the hypocricy is spreading like wildfire.

Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
I read that just the way it was written. You clarified. That's it. Don't act like that post didn't need clarification. You wrote something that could have been taken JUST AS IT WAS WRITTEN. It's not my fault you can't except the fact that you put your foot in your own mouth.

I didn't, I wrote it as it was intended, you chose the interpretation. I corrected you. Deal with it, stop being a weaselheimer.

Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
As for the credit thing. I never said he should be credited to inspire people like Dime Bag or Hendrix or Clapton or any rock fan. I know he didn’t, you dolt. Did I ever say that? No. Read my post.. he inspired and change the world of classical music. I never said anything else. Watch your mouth and don’t put words in mine.

I didn't say you did, I was making a separate point. You said "Even if it's not noticed, it's still there.", as in, his impact.

I pointed out that, no, it isn't "there" necessarily.

Don't tell me to watch my mouth, you silly man. You just get uptight whenever people correct you, it's ridiculous.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Don't tell me to watch my mouth, you silly man. You just get uptight whenever people correct you, it's ridiculous.

-AC

Actually you do need to watch your mouth, and stop trying to put words into mine. Get it?

Well at least I’m not a arrogant idiot who thinks that he makes any logical sense. You seriously need to stop trying to be so concerned with being "right" and realize that you’re not being logical at all.
You’re so hypocritical and so arrogant, you can't shut your mouth and realize when I'm actually agreeing with you, and when there isn’t any need to argue.
oh yeah i'll say this twice, so it'll sink in your head:
Stop using the "read the context" line because you've given it to people who couldn't see that you use it as a way of weaseling out of argument. It wont work with me. Admit that your statement was vague and open to interpretation. You won't because you so obsessed with being a intellectual and infallible well, youre far from it. Don't try and act like your statement made sense in the context, because it didn't.

Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
Actually you do need to watch your mouth, and stop trying to put words into mine. Get it?

Well at least I’m not a arrogant idiot who thinks that he makes any logical sense. You seriously need to stop trying to be so concerned with being "right" and realize that you’re not being logical at all.
You’re so hypocritical and so arrogant, you can't shut your mouth and realize when I'm actually agreeing with you, and when there isn’t any need to argue.
oh yeah i'll say this twice, so it'll sink in your head:
Stop using the "read the context" line because you've given it to people who couldn't see that you use it as a way of weaseling out of argument. It wont work with me. Admit that your statement was vague and open to interpretation. You won't because you so obsessed with being a intellectual and infallible well, youre far from it. Don't try and act like your statement made sense in the context, because it didn't.

All my post and you replied to that one part; Says a lot about your debating tactics.

I realise when you are and are not agreeing, but you're not the only one who's allowed opinions on members' attitudes here.

I will use the "read the context" line as much as I want, because it's the truth, and now you're refusing to accept it by trying to turn the debate on me.

I'm not obsessed with anything, unlike you. Oops, sorry, didn't mean that.

My statement made perfect sense in context. We were discussing general rock, general perception and Segovia in relation to that.

Deal.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
All my post and you replied to that one part; Says a lot about your debating tactics.

I realise when you are and are not agreeing, but you're not the only one who's allowed opinions on members' attitudes here.

I will use the "read the context" line as much as I want, because it's the truth, and now you're refusing to accept it by trying to turn the debate on me.

I'm not obsessed with anything, unlike you. Oops, sorry, didn't mean that.

My statement made perfect sense in context. We were discussing general rock, general perception and Segovia in relation to that.

Deal.

-AC

As long as all that makes sense to you. As long as your intellectual highness can go to sleep tonight, that’s what counts right? As long as you can pat yourself on the back and feel that you're intelligent. But hey, if "deal" means this is dead, I'd be happy to kill this 'argument' for a lack of a better term. Can you move on? I fawking hope so.

I do suggest councelling, you're a troubled man.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I do suggest councelling, you're a troubled man.

-AC

Hahahaha. Why the hostility? I told you I'm not out to piss you off, just wanting to logically disscuss the topic at hand. That failed, like other attempts to reason with you.

Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
Hahahaha. Why the hostility? I told you I'm not out to piss you off, just wanting to logically discuss the topic at hand. That failed, like other attempts to reason with you.

It fails because you instantly start to insult the other participant once you see your argument fails.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I do suggest councelling, you're a troubled man.

-AC

If you think someone needs "councelling" because he tends to point out the obvious at times, then you need to get off your fat arse and venture out to see some real troubled people.

Originally posted by RocasAtoll
It fails because you instantly start to insult the other participant once you see your argument fails.

My 'argument' never 'failed' because I never had one. I was merely trying to state my opinion and trying to prevent people from putting words in my mouth. And insults fly all over these boards it's funny when people try and act like their shit doesn’t stink. A insult is bad only when it's against you, right?

Alright...

Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
But your comparison betwen using an effects pedal and playing and transcibing Bach pieces is just plain IGNORANT. NOW I AM NOT TRYNG TO INSULT YOU, merely stating that you dont know how much talent, skill and dedication that would take.

---

Now let's just be clear...We're talking about what Segovia does vs. pedal or butting pushing and knob turning. I do think it's comparible...but I could think of a better example.

-I first gave "How Soon is Now" as an example of how using effects with a guitar isn't just "icing" as you say (leaving the guitar playing to be the "cake"😉, because I claimed THEY (the effects) are what have been used creatively and innovatively in that case, NOT the guitar playing. And that's pretty much self-explanatory, but whatever. You don't agree for some reason.

-Then you said I can't compare what Segovia does to stepping on pedals and adjusting knobs.

-I say I can...but I shouldnt've said I did it with "How Soon is Now" as an example. I gotta admit, the way effects are used with THIS particular song isn't in ITSELF as great a thing as what Segovia does...(but still maintain they are more important than the guitar playing in the song).

BUT other songs do have knob turning and button pushing (which is essentially what you're arguing against) that I say IS as great a thing as what Segovia does.

Look at "Rez" by Underworld. All techno really is is effects - button pushing, knob turning, etc...You don't have to know how to play an instrument well (or even at all) to make techno. And I HOPE you're not one of those people who says that gives it any less value or that techno requires any less talent. Is talent only seen is playing stuff with your fingers to you? Or transcribing notes?

Thing is, some techno I've heard (and I mean only "some"😉 I'd put up there with some of the other greatest achievements in music...simply because it's SO creative, SO innovative AND intricate (not to mention musical). But again, just like tons of people use effects on the guitar to sound better than they really are, lotsa people grab a keyboard and do the same. But if you know tehcno well, you can tell the good from the crap

Now, just listen to this for the 30 secs...(or don't bother reading the rest)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WY1qn-k9qE

What you have there is a 16 bar riff that gets repeated over an over, getting slightly tweaked and varied more and more throughout the song (although to the untrained ear I'm sure it just sounds random). THAT 16 bar riff has a distinct, particular melody that includes inticate off-beats, augmented orchestration, complicated off-time rythms, and it even builds of the first half (8 bars) of itself to make the whole 16 bars make a kind of sense. And the list goes on and on as to how a creative piece of music it actually is. If you get it, it's pure genius...and if you're at a rave or a party and that thing comes on, it can honestly sound like the most beautiful thing you've ever heard in your life. And what MAKES this piece of music so phenominal isn't any type of playing or transcribing...IT IS button pushing and IT IS knob turning, etc...

Now I have to ask you the same question...do you know HOW HARD it is to know how to produce and engineer music like that...and to lay down the fast, inticate rythms (that I guarantee you aren't there randomly) that are there? Do you know how much WORK and TALENT it takes to achieve the greatness that's been achevied with this piece of music? These guys are masters at their craft...they make music (that's often times incredible) with MACHINES, and they work really hard to use their unique talent to make something so incredible....definitley AS incredible as what Segovia does.

DON'T KNOCK BUTTON PUSHING AN KNOB TURNING...it's ridiculous! There is AS MUCH talent in that as there is in playing an instrument or transcribing...it's just that the talent IS DIFFERENT.

---

BTW. I though you were a DM fan. You think DM is what it is because of Martin Gore? You don't think Alan Wilder has anything to do with their genius? Take the song "Clean" off Violator and strip it down to it's bare music...it's nothing. But with Wilder, it becomes beatiful. The bass line ALONE (which is most likely all electronic) is just gigantic. It's simple musically, but when tweaked with effects and such, becomes something incredible.

Bach does his thing...Segovia does his thing...and Alan Wilder does his thing. You can't say one is greater than the other or requires more talent than the other. They're phenomenal achievements in their own way.

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
Actually it's not ignorant...I do know how much talent, skill and education that would take because I have transcribed things before. And as to your comment further down, I can read, write out, and arrange music, and I've been composing and playing music since I was 8.

Oh rrrreally. What's your definition of "composing" and "transcribing"? If you fawking say something like writing down guitar chords, piss off. Now I ask, what music have you transcribed ? I specifically asked if youve taken violin or cello solos. You've transcibed other peoples music , probably not genius works like Bachs pieces, which are on a tier of thier own. Get that out of my face, he transcribed BACH, is everbody here so ignorant that they don't recognize the level of musical mastery this requires? I seriously doubt you 'compose' music at all, and if you're lying about that you should be ashamed.

There was actually a lot more to my post than that...guess you have no good reply or you agree with it but aren't willing to admit it.

And as far as being ignorant goes, you're really pushing it by doubting I don't do this and I don't do that. Do you know me from a whole in the wall to make such claims? I say I DOUBT anything you know how to do because I've known you for a COUPLE HOURS. ARE YOU SERIOUS?

I'm trying to have a discussion with you, and all you come back with is..."I DOUBT you even know what there words mean!!!"

Maybe AC and VVD have good reason to be all over your ass because you're just being immature.

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
There was actually a lot more to my post than that...guess you have no good reply.

And as far as being ignorant goes, you're really pushing it by doubting I don't do this and I don't do that. Do you know me from a whole in the wall? I wouldn't claim to DOUBT anything you know how to do because I've known you for a couple hrs. ARE YOU SERIOUS?

I'm trying to have a discussion with you, and all you come back with is..."I DOUBT you even know what there words mean!!!"

I guess I'll just leave you to duke it with AC then if you don't want to talk about this any further.

It's pointless to trying to talk to somebody who lies (which you possile are). Now if you really are telling the truth and have been COMPOSING Music since you were 8. I'll talk to you, but you have to understand I have to take that leap of faith, to even believe you know what you are talkign about. How the fawk do I know if you're talking out of your ass? You could be, hence my 'i seriously doubt' statement.
I did'nt pay attention to any of your other stuff becuase it all means shit , if you're pathetically lying about being a composer.
Oh yeah VVD and AC are on my ass because I wont give into their high school logic skills or praise thier intellect. You of all people, I would think, would realize that AC is illogical.

WHAT?

BELIEVE WHAT YOU WANT!

I spent a pages worth repling to your post and you didn't read it because you THINK I MIGHT be lying? And that then there is no point. How strange. How could you POSSIBLY know one way or the other?

But since you have the information you do that says "yes I do transcribe music and yes i do compose music" you should consider that for all purposes it might be true. Do you trust issues or something?

Besides, the whole rest of the post has much more to do directly with the topic at hand.

EDIT: Hey 2D...I don't think you actually know or have heard a lot of Segovia...you're just name dropping to sound like you know what you're talking about. I DOUBT you've heard more than a couple songs. (hee hee).

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES

Do you trust issues or something?

No, I have a problem eating bullshit. I hate the taste so I make sure I know what I'm eating when somebody hands me a plate. Nothing personal, but like you said, I don't know you. You could be lying. And about me not liking Segovia, it's true I hav'nt listened to much of HIS songs. Because he did'nt write his own music, I tune out when he plays things from teh Romanctic era, becuase I dont like that era. But any music he plays from the baroque era is more my taste.