Who is the best guitarist of all time??

I think an important point is being missed here.

I think maybe 2d is missing it. No offence.

When I first started the piano, I completed 5 grades in 2 years...and I knew a couple people who would be playing for at least 4-5 years who couldn't get past grade 2. I'd also be composing music on the piano while these two people couldn't get past "hot crossed buns."

Point - Just because somone's playing longer than someone else doesn't mean they'll be better.

Also, look at what someone like Hendrix did? He is NOT the most technical guitarist there was...and I'd think that can be pretty much proven. Maybe though he would've been if he lived longer. But I'd say he's outclassed almost every popular guitarist in his innovation, imagination, and emotion playing the guitar.

Point - Someone could paractice for a hundred years and never match that. Casuse if they don't got it, they don't got it.

But people don't want to accept that because it might make them feel inferior or something...silly. That whole "you can do anything if you put your mind to it" stuff is just BS to make people feel that they're no less equal than anyone else. That's just not true.

EDIT: It's true they're equal in a "worth" sense, not in an "ability" sense

Precisely.

Though the music he made (Which was his greatest achievement and the reason he's rated so high.) is open to opinion, his ability WAS great, but there were and are more talented guitarists technically.

Nobody will ever play Voodoo Child like him though, they might be able to play some of the music or all of it if given a tab, but it won't have the fire, pardon the pun.

-AC

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
I think an important point is being missed here.

I think maybe 2d is missing it. No offence.

Point - Just because somone's playing longer than someone else doesn't mean they'll be better.

EDIT: It's true they're equal in a "worth" sense, not in an "ability" sense

I agree, but 60 years wont hurt either. I also said that even if they played (other guitarist ) for 120 years they would still never play like Andres Segovia. WHY? becuase he was a natural born VIRTUOSO of his own art. He had something you can't just practice to obtain. Andres Segovia was born with talent and he ALSO had been playing since he was 4, how many guitarist can say that? Not many, even rock guitarist.

I'm glad to see that Segovia gets mentioned here. He was an amazing (classical) guitarist, but few people know him.

I don't know... what would music be like without Segovia ? After all, it was Segovia who not only designed the classical guitar, but also elevated it from a not very popular instrument to a true concert instrument.

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
I'm glad to see that Segovia gets mentioned here. He was an amazing (classical) guitarist, but few people know him.

I don't know... what would music be like without Segovia ? After all, it was Segovia who not only designed the classical guitar, but also elevated it from a not very popular instrument to a true concert instrument.

Designed the classical guitar? what? Really, if that is true I had no idea. And yeah it SEEMS like some people here have no respect for segovia, and his years of refining his skills. People don't realize how different playing classical music is than playing rock.

Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
Designed the classical guitar? what? Really, if that is true I had no idea. And yeah it SEEMS like some people here have no respect for segovia, and his years of refining his skills. People don't realize how different playing classical music is than playing rock.

And the ones who have some talent, over being overanalyzed.

I like the talented ones however. And yes, he designed the classical guitar, but I think he had some help - but don't ask me who helped him. It's almost what, 70 years ago or so ?

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
It's because they don't care. They like their guitarists loud and with a lot of tattoos - more attitude than talent. Simple riffs and 4 chords.

You give segovia an effects box and he might not know what to do with it. Different people are better inclined to do different things.

For example...what's so complicated about the guitars in (if you know it) The Smith's "How Soon is Now"? Nothing whatsoever. But that song has become iconic because of the way the effects were used that made it sound so completely kick-ass.

EDIT: And don't go and say something like the effects are doing all the work, 'cause they're not. You're given an effects box or whatever, and it's up to the individual to be creative with it or not. The effect itself won't make the song sound cool, how you use it will.

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
There's nothing wrong with simple riffs and 4 chords though.

You give segovia an effects box and he might not know what to do with it.

For example...what's so complicated about the guitars in (if you know it) The Smith's "How Soon is Now"? Nothing whatsoever. But that song has become iconic because of the way the effects were used that made it sound so completely kick-ass.

EDIT: And don't go and say something like the effects are doing all the work, 'cause they're not. You're given an effects box or whatever, and it's up to the individual to be creative with it or not. The effect itself won't make the song sound cool, how you use it will.

I know effects are not 'doing all the work' effects are 'icing on the cake'. Who cares if you have shit music and all the effects pedals (and can use them) in the world? Don't go and compare playing (and transcribing) the music of a genius like J.S. Bach with stepping on a pedal and adjusting a few knobs.

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
There's nothing wrong with simple riffs and 4 chords though.

You give segovia an effects box and he might not know what to do with it.

For example...what's so complicated about the guitars in (if you know it) The Smith's "How Soon is Now"? Nothing whatsoever. But that song has become iconic because of the way the effects were used that made it sound so completely kick-ass.

EDIT: And don't go and say something like the effects are doing all the work, 'cause they're not. You're given an effects box or whatever, and it's up to the individual to be creative with it or not. The effect itself won't make the song sound cool, how you use it will.

Far from it. I just said that, in my opinion, a lot of so-called great guitarists, are a bit overrated. Especially when you compare them to the really Big Ones.

That's all I wanted to say. That doesn't mean I don't like their songs anymore.

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
Wow wow wow, settle down.

Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
Don't go and compare playing (and transcribing) the music of a genius like J.S. Bach with stepping on a pedal and adjusting a few knobs.

I don't think you got what I said about "How Soon is Now" though.

Effects aren't necessarily the icing on the cake...they can pretty much be the whole cake. It depends how they're used.

If effects are the icing, then you're saying the guitar playing (cake) is something more special, complicated, or innovative than the effects. But that's what just I showed to be the contrary with that example! The guitar playing in that song ISN'T complicated or anything special. It's just a few simple chords. BUT what gives the chords personality, creativity, and makes the artist achieve his vision is the effects (and more specifically, the creative way the effect was used). They're more "the cake" in this case than anything else.

However, I agree that a lot of people often aren't creative with effects and they just slap them on to sound better than they actually are. That's true.

But that's not ALWAYS the case.

Yngwie Malmsteen's one of my favorites, Gary Hoey's not bad either

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES

I just did.

I can how understand your point with 'how soon is now' is plausible, and I can say that I don't agree with it. But your comparison betwen using an effects pedal and playing and transcibing Bach pieces is just plain IGNORANT. NOW I AM NOT TRYNG TO INSULT YOU, merely stating that you dont know how much talent, skill and dedication that would take. Years of learning to write, read and play music is much greater than finding the perfect setting on a flange pedal. If you don't know this, then I wont bother trying to convince you. Go play with a flange petal, then go try and transcribe Bach's violin and cello solos for a guitar then see if you change your mind. Wait ...you can't ..I doubt you can read music for either instrument. It's ok neither can I. But what I CAN DO right now is play guitar with with a flange pedal (play 'how soon is now' even).

ah shit, sorry. Double post. look up ^.

Wait, let's not turn this debate into "What would music be without Segovia?", an unanswerable question, and then assume the answer is "Very different/worse." please.

The very fact that you say he's so far under the radar proves that while he's amazing, and he is, he hasn't had that much of an impact for anyone to notice his hypothetical removal.

Either way...

Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
I agree, but 60 years wont hurt either. I also said that even if they played (other guitarist ) for 120 years they would still never play like Andres Segovia. WHY? becuase he was a natural born VIRTUOSO of his own art. He had something you can't just practice to obtain. Andres Segovia was born with talent and he ALSO had been playing since he was 4, how many guitarist can say that? Not many, even rock guitarist.

A) Hendrix had something you couldn't just learn, and he was regarded by Eric Clapton, Pete Townshend and many of the world's "best" as the best. Bear in mind he DIED around mid 20s, so he was the best at a pathetically early age.

B) So what? What does length of playing matter? It's how the length is spend. Jimi Hendrix did more in his life than Segovia could dream, even though Segovia is overlooked.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

The very fact that you say he's so far under the radar proves that while he's amazing, and he is, he hasn't had that much of an impact for anyone to notice his hypothetical removal.

A) Hendrix had something you couldn't just learn, and he was regarded by Eric Clapton, Pete Townshend and many of the world's "best" as the best. Bear in mind he DIED around mid 20s, so he was the best at a pathetically early age.

B) So what? What does length of playing matter? It's how the length is spend. Jimi Hendrix did more in his life than Segovia could dream, even though Segovia is overlooked.

-AC

To people like you he did'nt have much to influence music. To classical musicians (especially guitarist), and people who love classical music he changed the world. Read the posts above, without him many of the most beautifull songs ever written in the world could not be played with a guitar.

Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
To people like you he did'nt have much to influence music. To classical musicians (especially guitarist), and people who love classical music he changed the world.

Well, an influence on popular music is naturally going to be of a greater magnitude than influence on classical guitarists and composers.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

The very fact that you say he's so far under the radar proves that while he's amazing, and he is, he hasn't had that much of an impact for anyone to notice his hypothetical removal.
-AC

That's the quote that bothers me. Nobody would notice that he was gone? Bullshit. Just becuase Andres Segovia is'nt a household name like hendrix , doesnt mean if you erased his existance it would be unnoticed, what a IGNORANT thing to say. Segovia is'nt 'under the radar' for people who love classical music, thats my point, for anybody who listen to classical guitar, he is the man, period.

Let's of course not overestimate the influence and importance of Segovia. It's true that most people don't know him, or don't want to know him. To some is his music timeless, for others it's dated.

But it can't be denied that Segovia introduced the guitar as a worthy music instrument. Not Clapton, not Hendrix, not Woody Guthrie, not Django, but Segovia.

And if you know he created the classical guitar (together with someone else) and that he was an amazing guitar player, well, I think it's only fair he at least gets mentioned in the ill famous "best guitarist ever" competitions.

Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
To people like you he did'nt have much to influence music. To classical musicians (especially guitarist), and people who love classical music he changed the world. Read the posts above, without him many of the most beautifull songs ever written in the world could not be played with a guitar.

Pardon? I KNOW how influencial he is, I think he's brilliant, read my post and then comment, it stops misinterpretations.

Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
That's the quote that bothers me. Nobody would notice that he was gone? Bullshit. Just becuase Andres Segovia is'nt a household name like hendrix , doesnt mean if you erased his existance it would be unnoticed, what a IGNORANT thing to say. Segovia is'nt 'under the radar' for people who love classical music, thats my point, for anybody who listen to classical guitar, he is the man, period.

Read the context.

"HE ISN'T UNDER THE RADAR!" followed by "...to anyone who loves classical.".

How much influence, noticeable influence, would that wield to the general music world? You're talking about a specific group. That's like saying Hendrix wouldn't be noticed by guitarists.

YES Segovia is great, YES he's important to people who know about music, but considering his anonymity in GENERAL, his removal from history would not cause as many ripples as you'd like to believe it would.

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
Let's of course not overestimate the influence and importance of Segovia. It's true that most people don't know him, or don't want to know him. To some is his music timeless, for others it's dated.

But it can't be denied that Segovia introduced the guitar as a worthy music instrument. Not Clapton, not Hendrix, not Woody Guthrie, not Django, but Segovia.

And if you know he created the classical guitar (together with someone else) and that he was an amazing guitar player, well, I think it's only fair he at least gets mentioned in the ill famous "best guitarist ever" competitions.

The issue was somebody saying no rock guitarists could play his stuff.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
The issue was somebody saying no rock guitarists could play his stuff.

But I give credit where credit is due.

Same with for example Mark Knopfler, an overlooked guitar player. I'm not crazy about Dire Straits (I like them, that's it), but some of his songs have brilliant moments.

But then again, it's of course all a matter of taste.