Originally posted by Ushgarak
That's just playing around with definitions. Fear of that is what you might feel if you observed someone nicking all your money.It would NOT be instinctive to think that when someone is choking in front of you. Not one tiny bit.
Oooooh... You'd be surprised at what goes through peoples minds Ush...
IE: Two and something years ago I was at a supermarket in Laindon,
(Quicksave) when I saw an elderly woman slip over on a grape that was on the fresh fruit aisle... Bang....! Down see went (Breaking her shoulder as I later found out,) she was in shock and lying on the floor shivering. Do you know how much the manager cared about the woman in question... Seemingly nothing.. He was more concerned by gathering info for health and saftey/ insurance's details than calling ambulances or administering any first aid.....Or even attempting talking to her.....
Therefore.... THAT guy's first thought WAS figures/money.... It does actaully happen in some peoples mind..... and that just one case...
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Oooooh... You'd be surprised at what goes through peoples minds Ush...IE: Two and something years ago I was at a supermarket in Laindon,
(Quicksave) when I saw an elderly woman slip over on a grape that was on the fresh fruit aisle... Bang....! Down see went (Breaking her shoulder as I later found out, she was in shock and lying on the floor shivering. Do you know how much the manager cared about the woman in question... Seemingly nothing.. He was more concerned by gathering info for health and saftey/ insurance's details than calling ambulances or administering any first aid.....Or even attempting talking to her.....
Therefore.... THAT guy's first thought WAS figures/money.... It does actaully happen in some peoples mind..... and that just one case...
Like I said above, I might accept it if you have been TRAINED to think that way. You can behaviour modify anyone to think anything if you put effort into it. But only people whose live's revolve around it- like, again, myself and those people with mental difficulties (though the reasoning behind that is practical, not financial).
But aside from that, the comparison doesn't work unless the manager directly saw the incident and stopped anyone from helping on financial grounds.
If money etc. is what he was thinking on a rational basis AFTER the event, then that is nothing to do with immediate, instinctive thought.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Like I said above, I might accept it if you have been TRAINED to think that way. You can behaviour modify anyone to think anything if you put effort into it. But only people whose live's revolve around it- like, again, myself and those people with mental difficulties (though the reasoning behind that is practical, not financial).But aside from that, the comparison doesn't work unless the manager directly saw the incident and stopped anyone from helping on financial grounds
He tried to disupte it, even though he saw it, and the amount of witesses
prevailed in the end.... So I guess it does stand up.
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
He tried to disupte it, even though he saw it, and the amount of witesses
prevailed in the end.... So I guess it does stand up.
Manager just happened to be walking past at the time, did he?
Sorry, I find the story spurious. And your description of the incident sounds like someone who was considering a situaiton after it had happened.
If he had been actually right next to her when it happened and deliberately not caught her... THEN the comparison might stand.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Manager just happened to be walking past at the time, did he?Sorry, I find the story spurious. And your description of the incident sounds like someone who was considering a situaiton after it had happened.
If he had been actually right next to her when it happened and deliberately not caught her... THEN the comparison might stand.
Are you calling me a liar...? Spurious or not- The fruit and veg aisle was bang opposite of where he WAS standing at the checkout at the end of the aisle and he DID see it and it DID transpire that way....!!!
But he wasn't actually in a position to have prevented it, was he? Therefore anything he was thinking about the situation was rational analysis, not instinctive feeling.
You cannot show that he was only thinking about H&S law at the very point of the incident, as we have been talking about in our other examples. Only that this is how he reacted AFTER the event. That's totally different.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
But he wasn't actually in a position to have prevented it, was he? Therefore anything he was thinking about the situaiton was rational analysis, not instinctive feeling.
hesitating on calling the paramedics in order to retrieve information to legally cover his own ass is rational? what ever happened to "are you ok?" or "OMFG ill call 911". he was in charge of the situation and had his prioities backwards. that woman could have been bleeding internally and (from what i understand here) he hesitated.
from how his story goes, she was obviously in shock. thats not something to waste a single second on. he put her life in danger in order to make sure he had all his legal ducks in a row.
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
But I was talking about the 'Thinking of money before compassion' aspect of it.....
And I was talkiing about instinctive thought.
And as I also pointed out, PVS, that is the way he would have been trained to react in such a circumstance. How he thinks on rational analysis is a very different conversation to someone's instinctive thought. If you thought on rational analysis abut the risk of being sued... well, I might not like that, but I'd accept it as possible.
Furthermore, we don't even know if he KNEW any first aid, or if it was his responsibility to call an ambulance.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
But he wasn't actually in a position to have prevented it, was he? Therefore anything he was thinking about the situation was rational analysis, not instinctive feeling.You cannot show that he was only thinking about H&S law at the very point of the incident, as we have been talking about in our other examples. Only that this is how he reacted AFTER the event. That's totally different.
Not disputed, but gauging from his reactions post the event,
I think he was non-plussed about the event, and his first thought was not to make sure she was ok, but to check how bad he was gonna look/
how much insurance liability he was facing as the manager of that shift...
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Not disputed, but gauging from his reactions post the event,
I think he was non-plussed about the event, and his first thought was not to make sure she was ok, but to check how bad he was gonna look/
how much insurance liability he was facing as the manager of that shift...
Very possibly, but we are getting into a different convo now.
My point was that it is not possible to instinctively think about the risk of losing your money in response to someone's life (or health) being at risk.
It's something you would have to put sveeral stages of thought into
(with, again, the earlier proviso that you can beahviour modify people into any reaction, but that has to be intense, and is normally the sort of thing you teach in, say, martial arts).
Originally posted by Ushgarak
And I was talkiing about instinctive thought.And as I also pointed out, PVS, that is the way he would have been trained to react in such a circumstance. How he thinks on rational analysis is a very different conversation to someone's instinctive thought. If you thought on rational analysis abut the risk of being sued... well, I might not like that, but I'd accept it as possible.
Furthermore, we don't even know if he KNEW any first aid, or if it was his responsibility to call an ambulance.
Compassion IS or SHOULD be instictive.
Maybe this guy was bereft of either.