No one's questioning Logan's vast skills and experience.
He's an awesome fighter. One of the only reasons I give people
like Batman, Daredevil, Black Panther & Captain America
an edge in fighting skills over Logan is that they're not just
martial artists. They're also amazing acrobats and gymnasts as well.
Logan is freakin' mad with fighting skills, but he's not an acrobat.
Look at it this way. Would you rather fight a kung-fu black belt,
or a kung-fu black belt who's also an acrobat/gymnast?
It's an added dimension to their fighting ability that makes them that
much more dangerous and agile. That's why I would give the edge in
pure fighting to characters like those over Logan.
I see your point but you have to remember that it isn't that Logan isn't agile its that he doesn't need to use it. He has shown amazing agility and speed feats when his healing factor hasn't been working; he has even tricked people into thinking he was the beast he was so agile. The ability to take a hit with out have to think about what will happen is a great commodity as Wolverine can simple stand their take the hit and counter attack when his attacker is left open.
Yes Wolverine is incredibly quick and agile. But he's NOT an acrobat.
I've read the vast majority of ALL Marvel flagship titles since 1962.
I've read virtually every X-men and Wolverine appearences for decades.
I've NEVER seen Logan demonstrate ACROBATICS. NEVER. EVER.
Yes he's freaking amazing and fast. But HE'S NOT AN ACROBAT.
We see Nightcrawler doing his stuff all the time in battle and Danger Room
exercises with Logan. NEVER has Logan demonstrated anything NEAR
acrobatics like Nightcrawler or the other characters.
These are people who can get around Manhattan by swinging around
like gymnasts on crack!!! You see them do this on a regular basis.
NEVER has Logan demonstrated this ability. I'm not taking anything
away from Wolverine, I'm just stating the facts regarding ALL his
appearence of the last 30 years or so.
"Wait a minute.
If it is accepted that Wolverine lived alot longer than Batman, learned
more martial arts and fighting techniques than Batman, and faught
a lot more opponents (both normal and Super-powered) than Batman
during their life-times, then how in God all Mighty's name can Batman
be a superior fighter than Wolverine?
Let me repeat: Bruce Wayne learned martial arts to fight criminals,
Logan was trained to fight super-villains. What's the comparison?
Let me also again say: How often to do you Batman engage in
hand-to-hand fights against near-equal/equal/superior fighters?
Compare that to how often Wolverine has fought people like
Sabertooth or Silver Samurai.
Besides, Batman was never that tough or smart when he first
appeared. He was just a really intelligent, well-trained detective.
Logan however, has always been tough. He's always been able
to go up against super-villains (like the Hulk), unlike Batman whose
intelligence and utility-belt had to be amplified greatly to have him
keep up with the likes of Superman and the JL.
Why is this even debated? Logan kicks billionaire's butt, is all."
Just b/c Logan's trained longer, harder, lived longer, trained longer, doesn't make him the better fighter. As someone pointed out previously, it also takes logan a couple days to heal completely. Also what do you mean how often anyone hand to hand. What about on the streets? What about training with different people like Nightwing, Cassandra Cain, Shiva, etc etc.
And do you think that logan would be able to go up to those like the hulk without the healing factor? Umm noooo
It does not take Wolvie "seconds" to heal serious injuries.
Any examples of him doing so are nonsense. Don't look at one
particular comic. Look at ALL HIS APPEARENCES of the last 30 years.
This is an up to date stat on Wolverine from the mouths of Marvel Comics.
If you look at the current Marvel Universe Handbook, it states very clearly:
Wolverine possesses an accelerated healing factor based on his physiology. While most normal humans heal injuries over a long period of time, Wolverine's healing factor speeds up that natural process. Wolverine's natural healing has been advanced to the point where he can heal extensive injuries (such as broken limbs) in a matter of hours to days. This factor gives him a higher resistance to poisons and toxins, and he can recover from almost any injury. The more extensive the injury, the longer the healing time will be.
Wolverine is not immortal, however. If the injuries are extensive enough, especially if they result in the loss of vital organs, large amounts of blood, and/or loss of physical form (such as having flesh burned away by fire or acid), Logan can die.
Wolverine, again due to his healing factor, has an enhanced resistance to disease, as well as an extended life span. Despite Wolverine's chronological age, he is still as healthy and physically fit as a man in his prime.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I perfer comic appears to the stats listed in the hand books. The Guides have really good bios for the most part but the stats are less then accurate on almost all accounts.
Wolverine still has 150+ years of fighting experience, an accelerated healing factor, superhuman senses/reflexes, superhuman strength, and feral rage at his disposal. Batman is a great fighter, he's resourceful, and he's pretty darn intelligent.
There's no way in hell Batman would win, unless he called upon outside sources, which I am assuming is against the rules of this fight.
Originally posted by Zahit
So do I.
That's why I base my knowledge of Wolverine by
summing up ALL HIS APPEARENCES of the last 30 years.
This is why I can tell the difference between accuracy and crap writing.
That is my filter. I've read the vast majority of ALL his appearences.
Yes there have been some books that show him healing in seconds
or taking several bullets to the neck without even flinching.
These are examples of writing him out of context. I know this because
these are lone examples in the 30 YEAR HISTORY of Wolverine.
I love Wolverine.
But when a writer desides to depict him doing things only Superman
can do (taking several bullets to the neck without even flinching),
that's an insult to Wolverine, an insult to Marvel's long storied history,
an insult to comic fans, an insult to me. Marvel went BANKRUPT in
the 1990's due to bad business practices and bad quality.
Think about that.....BANKRUPT.
Marvel Comics does not own Marvel Comics anymore.
That kind of inconsistant writing has been creeping back lately and
it bugs me. I love Marvel Comics. But I refuse to buy crap.
The uber-popularity of Wolverine and Marvel's insistence on pleasing
"fanboys" by depicting Wolverine doing things he shouldn't be able to
are ruining it for a LOT of long-time fans. I love Wolverine too, but for
God's sake, lets keep it real.
If you want to be technical, DC Comics doesn't own DC Comics; Time Warner/AOL does. They do some pretty outrageous stuff with DC characters too.
Who owns Marvel Comics now?
Originally posted by Zahit
Yes Wolverine is incredibly quick and agile. But he's NOT an acrobat.
I've read the vast majority of ALL Marvel flagship titles since 1962.
I've read virtually every X-men and Wolverine appearences for decades.
I've NEVER seen Logan demonstrate ACROBATICS. NEVER. EVER.
Yes he's freaking amazing and fast. But HE'S NOT AN ACROBAT.
We see Nightcrawler doing his stuff all the time in battle and Danger Room
exercises with Logan. NEVER has Logan demonstrated anything NEAR
acrobatics like Nightcrawler or the other characters.
These are people who can get around Manhattan by swinging around
like gymnasts on crack!!! You see them do this on a regular basis.
NEVER has Logan demonstrated this ability. I'm not taking anything
away from Wolverine, I'm just stating the facts regarding ALL his
appearence of the last 30 years or so.
Wolverine is basically a ground person, but has shown acrobatic like dexterity, such as when he penetrated into Terry Adams, during the capture of the Hunter in Darkness, his danger room scenario training where he spent days replaying random changes in trying to take out Magneto, etc. And I believe it either Forge to quip right after the Shiva encounter that Wolverine was showing skills of a gold metalist (I doubt he was referring to something like shotput or discus), while beating down 4 chess games (something like that) during his danger room training session.
"Also this is non-unbreakable skeleton Wolverine, and as someone pointed out, it takes Wolverine a few hours or a couple of days to heal broken bones. Of his normal skeleton the only part that is more durable are his bone claws, every other bone in Wolverine's body, without adamantium is just as strong as the bones in any other healthy person. In this case Batman can and will break Wolverine's bones, putting him out of the fight for a few hours or a few days, that means Wolverine is helpess while Batman is fine. Because he could block and avoid Wolverine's without taking fatal wounds for long enough to break Wolvie's bones. That's just the way that goes down."
If wolverine can take a punch from the hulk without his adamantium bones and gotten up again, I dont think there is much batman is gonna do in terms of breaking his bones.
Also, to everyone who says that wolverine is not at batmans level of fighting, read some wolverine comics. Wolverine has demonstrated he is as good or better then batman in terms of skill in fighting, add that, with his healing powers there is NO way batman could take wolverine down, he wouldnt be able to hurt him bad enough where as wolverine could keep taking the punishment and keep dishing it out.