Storm vs. Dr. Doom

Started by Alpha Centauri57 pages

Why are you saying I had not theories then just referring to what I "basically" said?

We both know (or we should) why I believe Doom would win easily. It's not down to stupid theories or eventualities because everything I have ever said has been realistic.

That single inconsistency that we "got into" was your reason for Storm winning. The whole "controlling the air you breathe in because that's weather too" theory. Which is bull and you know it. Nike design clothes for the general public but the ones they design for important people like athletes are better. Why does the fact that Doom built a Doombot equate to him having the SAME tech? Rather grandious assumption.

I attacked your theories, exactly. Purpose of debate. I'm not here to say "Well although I don't agree, I respect what you are saying". I don't. I respect your right to say that, but I don't respect the opinion itself.

Not too sure what it is you're trying to prove here. Well I am, just not relevent.

-AC

Originally posted by demigawd
faulty analogy. 2+2=5 is a formula that can be disproved using mathematical evidence.

Therefore an opinion can be wrong.

Originally posted by demigawd
Going back to your boxing analogy, it's like a heavyweight moving down to cruiserweight to fight someone. How will he fare against lighter, faster, opponents with more stamina if you've been fighting 250lb bruisers?
Originally posted by demigawd
(even though she proved that she can bypass four or five different forcefields in he past),

As far as I'm aware, not many other forcefields have the quality of Doom's.

U CANT PROVE AN OPINION?!!!!!

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
We both know (or we should) why I believe Doom would win easily. It's not down to stupid theories or eventualities because everything I have ever said has been realistic.

That's debatable. I've never said anything unrealistic - and it's not unrealistic because I always backed it up with specific instances when she's done just that. YOU, on the other hand, don't even need references as long as it's theoretically possible. Need I mention Doom and that whole magic garbage?


That single inconsistency that we "got into" was your reason for Storm winning. The whole "controlling the air you breathe in because that's weather too" theory. Which is bull and you know it.

1)It's not bull. It's sound reasoning, whether you admit it or not.
2)That was NEVER part of my explanation for how Storm would win. That was part of an unrelated side conversation. Stop obfuscating my arguments.


Nike design clothes for the general public but the ones they design for important people like athletes are better. Why does the fact that Doom built a Doombot equate to him having the SAME tech? Rather grandious assumption.

Hardly - Doom himself barely beat one of his Doombots when he returned. And there's been absolutely nothing shown or suggested that Doom uses different tech. You're just ASSUMING that he uses different tech for himself, despite every indication to the contrary. Stop assuming things.

Therefore an opinion can be wrong.

2+2=5 isn't an opinion. It's a statement of fact that's incorrect. Saying, "I think capitalism is better than socialism" is an opinion.

As far as I'm aware, not many other forcefields have the quality of Doom's.

The strength of a forcefield is meaningless. It's the nature of a forcefield - there's nothing in the nature of Doom's forcefield that would even remotely suggest that it would be an exception to a lengthy history of forcefields being bypassed. Evidence is vastly in my favor on this point.

U CANT PROVE AN OPINION?!!!!!

Damn skippy. You can provide evidence to support your opinion. Can't prove it.

Firstly, certain opinions can be proven wrong. Not all opinions are unprovable. Get that correct.

Secondly, Doom's magic is correct and you could see where I was basing it. Because he has used magic. You brought up the whole "What you breathe in is weather too" and ACTUALLY convinced yourself that it was true. Hahaha. You call it SOUND reasoning. She controls the weather, not the air. The air is part of it but it's not IT, independantly. So no, she couldn't control it.

Don't tell me to stop assuming and then saying in the same breath that all we can do is assume. You're being extremely hypocritical. It's a safe assumption to say that Doom uses different tech. People in the Marvel Universe have conceded that Doom himself has quite possibly the best tech there is. Even Iron-Man, who you claim is better.

How is evidence in your favour? Storm overpowered a Doombot and has gone through other forcefields (all inferior to Doom's). How is that reason to say she could go and do the same to him? If his shield is the best according to what I've seen and what the MU think, then surely that would make Doombot shields impenetrable. Unless of course they were made with lesser tech than Doom uses on hi....oh wait.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Firstly, certain opinions can be proven wrong. Not all opinions are unprovable. Get that correct.

Incorrect. Opinions can't be proven wrong. The best you can do is disprove facts supporting the opinion. Going back to that stupid 2+2=5 example, that's not an opinion, that's a fact someone stated. Now, to say, "math is stupid" is an opinion. You can't prove or disprove that. If you were to say that 2+2=5 is one reason why math is stupid, you can prove 2+2=5 is wrong, but you can't prove that math being stupid is wrong.


Secondly, Doom's magic is correct and you could see where I was basing it. Because he has used magic.

Never combat magic without special enhancements, such as limbo armor, valeria armor. If he has the ability to do it without those enhancements, he would have...and it wouldn't need enchanted armor. That's why it's senseless.


You brought up the whole "What you breathe in is weather too" and ACTUALLY convinced yourself that it was true. Hahaha. You call it SOUND reasoning. She controls the weather, not the air. The air is part of it but it's not IT, independantly. So no, she couldn't control it.

Again, you keep bringing that up, but it has no bearing on my argument that Storm would beat Doom...it was never part of it. Stop harping on it. If you RECALL the original context, I said that I only argue things that someone has actually done as a counter to your contention that Doom would use magic against Storm. I said, "if you're going to go to pure theory without comic references, then Storm could, in theory affect the inside of someone since she controls atmosphere and we take in atmosphere". It makes sense, and it's unquestionably something she could do, but that was NEVER part of my argument. Stop taking things out of context.


Don't tell me to stop assuming and then saying in the same breath that all we can do is assume. You're being extremely hypocritical. It's a safe assumption to say that Doom uses different tech. People in the Marvel Universe have conceded that Doom himself has quite possibly the best tech there is. Even Iron-Man, who you claim is better.

You attack my theories because you call them speculative (when it's not...I provide supporting evidence), and yet your entire belief that Doom's shield somehow uses different technology than his bots is pure speculation. And it's completely unsupported. Why would Doom go out of his way to invent an entirely different technology and means of shielding his Doombots that LOOKS like his shielding? It doesn't make sense. Nike does it for budgetary reasons...I doubt Doom is inventing secondary technology to save a buck.


How is evidence in your favour? Storm overpowered a Doombot and has gone through other forcefields (all inferior to Doom's).

The very fact that you'd say they're inferior to Doom's is highly speculative. Unus' forcefield has never been broken. Neither has Magneto's. And Magneto took a shot from Galactus and his field blocked it too. So what? You have no evidence that one shield is more powerful than another. The fact that Storm bypassed multiple TYPES of shield proves that it really doesn't matter what kind of shield it is...if there's an environment inside, she controls it.


How is that reason to say she could go and do the same to him? If his shield is the best according to what I've seen and what the MU think, then surely that would make Doombot shields impenetrable. Unless of course they were made with lesser tech than Doom uses on hi....oh wait.

Easy. Because Doom's shields aren't impenetrable. And they're not the best in the MU.

Storm is pretty useless against someone who invented Marvel evil.

Team Doom speaks again.

WHY is this thread still going on!?

Storm is NOT even CLOSE to Doom's level. She's a scared little girl and Doom is the big evil man towering over her with a grin.

Sure Storm has some power, but she's unsure of herself and really doesn't know what to do. And her power doesn't even compare to Doom's intelligence and technology. As shown when she was made leader of the Gold Team. She sucked, Cyclops was a better leader.

It's like herpes...flares up every once in a while.

...And every bit as annoying.

This whole "Team" thing baffles me. Considering the notion came from a Storm supporter anyway. When he/she coined the phrase "Team Storm". Which consisted of 3 people.

Originally posted by demigawd
Incorrect. Opinions can't be proven wrong. The best you can do is disprove facts supporting the opinion. Going back to that stupid 2+2=5 example, that's not an opinion, that's a fact someone stated. Now, to say, "math is stupid" is an opinion. You can't prove or disprove that. If you were to say that 2+2=5 is one reason why math is stupid, you can prove 2+2=5 is wrong, but you can't prove that math being stupid is wrong.

Yes they can. They can't be forced to change but they can be proved wrong. If your opinion is that a certain team is really good, I can prove they aren't but I can't make you agree.

Originally posted by demigawd
Never combat magic without special enhancements, such as limbo armor, valeria armor. If he has the ability to do it without those enhancements, he would have...and it wouldn't need enchanted armor. That's why it's senseless.

"Stop assuming things"- Someone from this thread.

Originally posted by demigawd
Again, you keep bringing that up, but it has no bearing on my argument that Storm would beat Doom...it was never part of it. Stop harping on it. If you RECALL the original context, I said that I only argue things that someone has actually done as a counter to your contention that Doom would use magic against Storm. I said, "if you're going to go to pure theory without comic references, then Storm could, in theory affect the inside of someone since she controls atmosphere and we take in atmosphere". It makes sense, and it's unquestionably something she could do, but that was NEVER part of my argument. Stop taking things out of context.

You were claiming that she could get through his forcefield as a result of having that power. Which of course, she doesn't have. Doom can and has used magic. Storm cannot and has not controlled air in someone's lungs. There is a huge difference. Doom could use magic if he so chose, I'm not saying he would. Storm couldn't control the air in his lungs whether she wanted to or not.

Originally posted by demigawd
You attack my theories because you call them speculative (when it's not...I provide supporting evidence), and yet your entire belief that Doom's shield somehow uses different technology than his bots is pure speculation. And it's completely unsupported. Why would Doom go out of his way to invent an entirely different technology and means of shielding his Doombots that LOOKS like his shielding? It doesn't make sense. Nike does it for budgetary reasons...I doubt Doom is inventing secondary technology to save a buck.

You support it with examples, yes. Doesn't mean I have to lay down and go "Oh well you got me". Showing me examples doesn't automatically make you the victor or give you the upper hand. The fact that I'm still here proving why Doom has more chance of winning (regardless of your agreement) is proof that "examples" don't make the debate.

Why would Doom do all that? I don't know, ask him. Oh wait, maybe he is a little more concerned about his own safety than that of a Doombot. I dunno, maybe. I mean, if one Toys R Us store burns down, it sucks but I doubt they're bothered, coz they have many more all over the world. Now replace Toys R Us Corp with Dr. Doom and the stores with an infinite line of Doombots.

Originally posted by demigawd
The very fact that you'd say they're inferior to Doom's is highly speculative. Unus' forcefield has never been broken. Neither has Magneto's. And Magneto took a shot from Galactus and his field blocked it too. So what? You have no evidence that one shield is more powerful than another. The fact that Storm bypassed multiple TYPES of shield proves that it really doesn't matter what kind of shield it is...if there's an environment inside, she controls it.

It proves that all the shields she's come up against have had a way through. It doesn't mean she has the ability to get through any shield. That's like saying if you make 5 walls, 4 out of soft materials and 1 out of concrete, that I can break through the concrete one just coz I can break through the others. It's silly.

Doom's has never been broken either. Fact.

Originally posted by demigawd
Easy. Because Doom's shields aren't impenetrable. And they're not the best in the MU.

According to Reed and Stark they are. According to me they are close to the best.

Impenetrable? Probably not. However I don't believe Storm is going to get past it at all or even if she could, that she could do anything to him. Judging by what he's taken before.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
...And every bit as annoying.

Damn straight. I keep telling myself I won't post anymore, then Stormfront will say something, someone else will make fun of him, then they'll say something stupid about Storm vs. Doom, then AC will say something, then I end up getting dragged back in and doing another five page exchange with AC that leads nowhere.


This whole "Team" thing baffles me. Considering the notion came from a Storm supporter anyway. When he/she coined the phrase "Team Storm". Which consisted of 3 people.

17 out of 20 Team Doomsmen were useless (see above Team Doom posts). So I'd say we're about even.


Yes they can. They can't be forced to change but they can be proved wrong. If your opinion is that a certain team is really good, I can prove they aren't but I can't make you agree.

No, you can prove that certain things the team's support said happened didn't happen (or vice versa), and you can give contrary evidence, but a team being good is completely subjective. "Good" is subjective. In light of new evidence or supporting facts, they may change their opinion, but it didn't make their original opinion wrong. Something being "good" or "bad" too subjective to be confined to right or wrong.


You were claiming that she could get through his forcefield as a result of having that power. Which of course, she doesn't have.

No I didn't. You're either accidentally or intentionally misremembering. I said she could bypass forcefields in my first or second post. The whole "atmosphere inside your body" argument didn't show for at least a dozen pages, and that was directly in response to your argument that as long as something is theoretically possible, it doesn't matter if they've actually done it. I simply said, "Well, if you want to play it that way...." and brought in the atmosphere-in-body topic.


Doom can and has used magic. Storm cannot and has not controlled air in someone's lungs.

"It doesn't matter of someone used an ability before if it's in the realm of their power" - someone on this thread.

Doom has not and cannot use combat magic without a special armor. There is a standard Doom with his standard armor. No prep.

Storm has not controlled air inside someone's lungs. But she can do it because her exact power is atmospheric control. Atmospheric control extends to everything that contains that atmospheric - such as enclosed rooms (she's created storms inside the danger room), locked boxes (when she nurtured herself by creating water while locked inside the box), and glass jars (which she's created environments inside of). There's absolutely nothing different about the human body...why you ask? Follow closely. What do all of the aforementioned objects have in common? They all contain air from the outside atmosphere. There really even shouldn't be an argument here - your body contains air. You gonna argue that? End of story.


There is a huge difference. Doom could use magic if he so chose, I'm not saying he would. Storm couldn't control the air in his lungs whether she wanted to or not.

Except she could and he can't. But again...that was never part of my argument on how'd she'd beat Doom. She doesn't NEED to do that. Stop harping on it.


Why would Doom do all that? I don't know, ask him. Oh wait, maybe he is a little more concerned about his own safety than that of a Doombot. I dunno, maybe. I mean, if one Toys R Us store burns down, it sucks but I doubt they're bothered, coz they have many more all over the world. Now replace Toys R Us Corp with Dr. Doom and the stores with an infinite line of Doombots.

That analogy makes no sense, lol. If a Toys R Us burns down, they lose money. So they spend as much as possible to fireproof their stores. If someone came up to Toys R Us and said, "we invented technology that makes Toys R Us stores unburnable and it's free" do you think they'd turn them down? Of COURSE not. If you've invented technology for free (because you're a monarch and rich) and you're so awesomely smart, the idea that you'd be unable to mass produce it and have to resort to inventing an entirely separate technology is ridiculous.

Doom: "Hey! I invented impenetrable technology based upon blahblahblah science! Now I'm going to invent separate technology that is not impenetrable because...uh....because..."

I don't think so. If you're going to go through all the effort to equip your Doombots with faces, molecular expanding guns, personality and AI so sophisicated that they came alive and fought Doom, there's no reason why you'd give them some low grade shield. None.


It proves that all the shields she's come up against have had a way through. It doesn't mean she has the ability to get through any shield. That's like saying if you make 5 walls, 4 out of soft materials and 1 out of concrete, that I can break through the concrete one just coz I can break through the others. It's silly.

Storm isn't breaking through shields. She's creating environments from within the shields. She's bypassing them entirely. Going back to your wall analogy - three are made of soft materials, one of concrete and one of adamantium, but your mutant power is to become intangible and walk through walls...what the walls are made out of doesn't mean shit. Unless you use specific technology that prevents walking through walls. But you can't just assume that one of the walls do that - you'd have to demonstrate it. The burden of proof is on showing the wall would prevent walking through it. Replace wall with Doom's shield and intangible walking through with Storm bypassing.


Doom's has never been broken either. Fact.

Welcome to the club. Storm wouldn't have to break it to get to him.


According to Reed and Stark they are. According to me they are close to the best.

Stark was comparing forcefield technology, mainly to his own. It never said, "Of all the magic and mutant and cosmic forcefields I've ever seen...Doom's is the best". He just said that Doom's defensive forcefields put his to shame.


Impenetrable? Probably not. However I don't believe Storm is going to get past it at all or even if she could, that she could do anything to him. Judging by what he's taken before.

He's never faced anyone who tried to do something from inside his forcefield. Just people who tried to bludgeon it

tis i going way backbut storm can create a strom in a botle cuz she created a little raincloud on a book in ulitmate Xmen(issue where beast died) and she did it in uncanny when she created one to wash somebodys wound(forgot who) sooooo..........yeah she could create one in his suit.(sorry had to break the tedium)

Originally posted by demigawd
Damn straight. I keep telling myself I won't post anymore, then Stormfront will say something, someone else will make fun of him, then they'll say something stupid about Storm vs. Doom, then AC will say something, then I end up getting dragged back in and doing another five page exchange with AC that leads nowhere.

You kicked off the long replies again. Not me. I'm not the one struggling to prove a vaguely relevant point.

Originally posted by demigawd
17 out of 20 Team Doomsmen were useless (see above Team Doom posts). So I'd say we're about even.

I'd say we're not, seeing as there were 3 regular Storm posters (infact, about 5 overall), to the 20+ Doom posters.

Originally posted by demigawd
No, you can prove that certain things the team's support said happened didn't happen (or vice versa), and you can give contrary evidence, but a team being good is completely subjective. "Good" is subjective. In light of new evidence or supporting facts, they may change their opinion, but it didn't make their original opinion wrong. Something being "good" or "bad" too subjective to be confined to right or wrong.

Going by the definition of "Good" and applying it to the medium, I can prove a team to be good. You have deniability but it doesn't change truth.

Originally posted by demigawd
No I didn't. You're either accidentally or intentionally misremembering. I said she could bypass forcefields in my first or second post. The whole "atmosphere inside your body" argument didn't show for at least a dozen pages, and that was directly in response to your argument that as long as something is theoretically possible, it doesn't matter if they've actually done it. I simply said, "Well, if you want to play it that way...." and brought in the atmosphere-in-body topic.

You never said "Well if you want to play that way" because if you did (I read your posts) I wouldn't be under the impression you seriously meant it. But, if we look at your next quote.....

Originally posted by demigawd
"It doesn't matter of someone used an ability before if it's in the realm of their power" - someone on this thread.

Doom has not and cannot use combat magic without a special armor. There is a standard Doom with his standard armor. No prep.

Storm has not controlled air inside someone's lungs. But she can do it because her exact power is atmospheric control. Atmospheric control extends to everything that contains that atmospheric - such as enclosed rooms (she's created storms inside the danger room), locked boxes (when she nurtured herself by creating water while locked inside the box), and glass jars (which she's created environments inside of). There's absolutely nothing different about the human body...why you ask? Follow closely. What do all of the aforementioned objects have in common? They all contain air from the outside atmosphere. There really even shouldn't be an argument here - your body contains air. You gonna argue that? End of story.

Supposing we go by that, standard Doom is enough. Don't confuse "Standard" with basic. Dr. Strange wears normal clothes when using magic. They're incantations, nothing technical about them.

See, you're saying it again. The atmosphere CONTAINS air. She controls the configurations and temperament of the atmosphere, not every facet of it. That's all there is to that, she hasn't concentrated her powers that much. She cannot remove air from lungs. You are reaching so far into irrelevancy to prove an invalid and inconclusive point that you've actually convinced yourself that you are talking sense. It's ridiculous. Magic is in the realm of Doom's power because he has used magic before. Storm can control the weather, she can't suck the air out of people's lungs because that's not in her power.

Originally posted by demigawd
Except she could and he can't. But again...that was never part of my argument on how'd she'd beat Doom. She doesn't NEED to do that. Stop harping on it.

.....Says the person who continually brings it up in a slightly changed overtone to SEEMINGLY back himself up. Your brought it back, not me.

Originally posted by demigawd
That analogy makes no sense, lol. If a Toys R Us burns down, they lose money. So they spend as much as possible to fireproof their stores. If someone came up to Toys R Us and said, "we invented technology that makes Toys R Us stores unburnable and it's free" do you think they'd turn them down? Of COURSE not. If you've invented technology for free (because you're a monarch and rich) and you're so awesomely smart, the idea that you'd be unable to mass produce it and have to resort to inventing an entirely separate technology is ridiculous.

It makes perfect sense. Dr. Doom cares more about his safety than that of his Doombots. He doesn't care if a Doombot is blown up. I think he cares if he blows up.

Originally posted by demigawd
Doom: "Hey! I invented impenetrable technology based upon blahblahblah science! Now I'm going to invent separate technology that is not impenetrable because...uh....because..."

I don't think so. If you're going to go through all the effort to equip your Doombots with faces, molecular expanding guns, personality and AI so sophisicated that they came alive and fought Doom, there's no reason why you'd give them some low grade shield. None.

Why are you operating under the assumption that he invented stuff especially for the Doombots? Is it not possible (it is) that he made them with you know.....existing technology and as time has passed (as it has a habit of doing), he has advanced the technology (like all good scientists) and made use of it?

Stop trying to cheap Doom out of what you know is a more than likely possibility.

Originally posted by demigawd
Storm isn't breaking through shields. She's creating environments from within the shields. She's bypassing them entirely. Going back to your wall analogy - three are made of soft materials, one of concrete and one of adamantium, but your mutant power is to become intangible and walk through walls...what the walls are made out of doesn't mean shit. Unless you use specific technology that prevents walking through walls. But you can't just assume that one of the walls do that - you'd have to demonstrate it. The burden of proof is on showing the wall would prevent walking through it. Replace wall with Doom's shield and intangible walking through with Storm bypassing.

What if one of those "walls" had something that completely prevented you from walking through it? Tangible or not? Those other walls don't mean shit because it would be your fault for assuming that you could walk through the next one. I see where you're coming from with this but it seems to me that you are just saying it's ok to assume and then that it's not. You can't be ok to assume that Storm could do it and then say I'm wrong to assume Doom's personal tech is better than that of robots he built. When proof or no proof, it's highly likely.

Originally posted by demigawd
Welcome to the club. Storm wouldn't have to break it to get to him.

Stark was comparing forcefield technology, mainly to his own. It never said, "Of all the magic and mutant and cosmic forcefields I've ever seen...Doom's is the best". He just said that Doom's defensive forcefields put his to shame.

He didn't only say that, he was speaking in general about tech also.

Originally posted by demigawd
He's never faced anyone who tried to do something from inside his forcefield. Just people who tried to bludgeon it

Galactus is more than capable of doing something from inside his shield........right? Coz he can do anything. So why did he go all out to Doom's shield with zero effect?

Don't complain about having mounds to reply to when you're the one bringing it on.

-AC

Alright, I'm going to post something serious.

Even if Storm could bypass the forcefield, I doubt she could do anything.

There's obviously not enough electricity to make a bolt of lightning inside the suit. And even if she could use his power source, I don't think he's dumb enough to not insulate himself AND have the option to charge it up.

Lightning going from outside to inside would get caught up in the forcefield AND the insulation.

The closest thing I think she could come to using lightning to mess up his electronics is if she could mess with his power source but I'm sure that's regulated, breakered, etc.

There's not enough space int he suit to make much of a wind, let alone a tornado to cause breathing problems. The suit's even air conditioned.

And the suit is space worthy so outside tornadoes won't mess up the breathing either.

And for the last time, creating a storm in a jar or bottle is impossible on just "commanding/summoning weather"

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
This whole "Team" thing baffles me. Considering the notion came from a Storm supporter anyway. When he/she coined the phrase "Team Storm". Which consisted of 3 people.
I'm pretty sure I made up the "Team" thing. It just seemed right.

It's not so much a team as a trio. Almost like the Venture brothers and robot!

huh?

Originally posted by Nataku8188
It's not so much a team as a trio. Almost like the Venture brothers and robot!
Helper is funny but worthless most of the time. I wonder who that is *looks at tophat sig*...ohh

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I'd say we're not, seeing as there were 3 regular Storm posters (infact, about 5 overall), to the 20+ Doom posters.

But 17 of them are either making jokes are repeating the same, "Storm is just Storm, Doom is Godly!" point, which was meaningless the first time, much less the 50th.


Going by the definition of "Good" and applying it to the medium, I can prove a team to be good. You have deniability but it doesn't change truth.

But that's the thing - there IS no truth when it comes to the definition of "good". What is good? What does that mean? What makes a team good vs. making a team suck? The answer is entirely subjective...therefore it cannot be truth, because truth isn't subjective.


You never said "Well if you want to play that way" because if you did (I read your posts) I wouldn't be under the impression you seriously meant it.

You're getting it completely wrong. It went pretty much like this:

AC: Besides, Doom knows magic, he can just put up a magic forcefield
DG: What? He's never done that
AC: So what? He knows magic, he can do it
DG: But magic is a vague term. Not everyone who knows magic can do anything magical
AC: But he knows magic from Dr. Strange. It doesn't matter if he's never done it before, he knows magic, so he COULD do it.
DG: I only argue things that I've seen someone do in the past. That's why, until it actually happened recently, I never argued that Magneto could create a blackhole and dump someone in it, even though I knew that it was something magnetic powers could accomplish.
AC: But Doom knows magic, so whether he's done it or not isn't relevant.
DG: Well, if we're going by what people COULD do based on what their powers, I could easily say that Storm could affect the environment inside a person's body. The air inside a person's body comes from the outside atmosphere. She could, if she wanted to, affect that the same way.

Do I sincerely believe that Storm can do that? Now that I thought it up, yeah, I do. But scan this board and you'll NEVER see me use it as part of my list of Storm's arsenal, because I stand by my philosophy of only mentioning things I've seen a character do in a comic instead of assuming. I've seen Storm bypass forcefields, I've seen Storm overload Doom's tech, I've seen Storm destroy Doom's gauntlet. That's what I'm going by. So drop the whole atmosphere thing...arguing it does nothing to my belief that Storm would win.


Supposing we go by that, standard Doom is enough. Don't confuse "Standard" with basic. Dr. Strange wears normal clothes when using magic. They're incantations, nothing technical about them.

I know Strange wears normal clothes when using magic...because Strange is a REAL magician. Doom is not, therefore, he has to make pacts with demons, or get armor made in limbo, or has to prepare a pretty lengthy ritual to use magic. That's the difference between them, and that's why "Doom knows magic" isn't enough of an explanation.


See, you're saying it again. The atmosphere CONTAINS air.

Ah, see, that's where you're getting confused. Atmosphere doesn't CONTAIN air. Atmosphere IS air. I've posted this before, but since it seems you forgot, I'll post it again.

Webster's definition of atmosphere:

1 a : the gaseous envelope of a celestial body (as a planet) b : the whole mass of air surrounding the earth
2 : the air of a locality

Therefore, if you control the atmosphere (Storm does), and you breathe in the atmosphere, then that same atmosphere that you breathed in is subject to the same kind of control that the atmosphere had before it entered you. There's nothing special about it entering your body vs. entering a box vs. a glass jar vs. an enclosed room. They're all cut off containers of that atmosphere - she's controlled them all in the past, the body should be no exception, scientifically speaking.

But again, none of this has anything to do with any of my reasons for why Storm would beat Doom. I never cited this as such.


It makes perfect sense. Dr. Doom cares more about his safety than that of his Doombots. He doesn't care if a Doombot is blown up. I think he cares if he blows up.

Well, he would care if a Doombot is blown up because Doombots are basically flawless represenations of them. They've represented him in countless storylines and they've had extremely weighty and important roles in securing vastly powerful objects or advancing his cause significantly. We both know that. It doesn't make sense that he'd equip them with EVERYTHING he has, all the different weapons he packs...and then give them a crap shield. It just doesn't make sense. He'd make his bots as invulnerable as possible...and if that includes an invulnerable shield, then he'd do it.


Why are you operating under the assumption that he invented stuff especially for the Doombots? Is it not possible (it is) that he made them with you know.....existing technology and as time has passed (as it has a habit of doing), he has advanced the technology (like all good scientists) and made use of it?

I considered that possibility too, but Doom didn't always have his molecular expander gun. Once he started packing it, all of his Doombots started packing it too. So he upgrades his Doombots along with his new weapons and discoveries. No reason why that wouldn't include upgrading his shields too. Especially if he's fighting the FF all the time. You've never heard Reed say, "Hey...this Doom we're fighting is weird. Why's his tech all old? And look....that shield! What a wussy shield! This isn't Doom! Let's go home, ya'll". He takes pain to maintain consistency with his Doombots.


Stop trying to cheap Doom out of what you know is a more than likely possibility.

Stop trying to discredit Doom by making him seem like a lazy tech slacker.


What if one of those "walls" had something that completely prevented you from walking through it? Tangible or not? Those other walls don't mean shit because it would be your fault for assuming that you could walk through the next one. I see where you're coming from with this but it seems to me that you are just saying it's ok to assume and then that it's not. You can't be ok to assume that Storm could do it and then say I'm wrong to assume Doom's personal tech is better than that of robots he built. When proof or no proof, it's highly likely.

But the difference is, I'm basing my assumptions on something. I'm basing my assumption that Storm could operate from within his shield on the fact that she's done it with shields on many occasions. You're basing your assumption that Storm could NOT operate from within his shield on faith. I understand that having faith in Doom is warranted because he's DOOM, but Doom is NOT prepared for everything. Otherwise he could have fireproofed his armor and not gotten toasted by Johnny, or he could have had better circuitbreakers and not had his system lock up when Thing crushed his armor.

Look at it this way - if you had $1000 and you saw someone walk through five walls of different materials, and someone asked if you wanted to bet that they could walk through that sixth wall. it's a harder material, sure, but it's still just a wall. And this person has NEVER failed to walk through a wall. Of course, this wall has never been walked through, but no one has tried, either. Based on what you've seen, are you better off betting the $1000 or not betting it?

I don't know about you, but I'd bet the $1000 in a second...the evidence that the person could walk through any wall is overwhelming. The evidence that there's some technology in the sixth wall that prevents it...non existent.


He didn't only say that, he was speaking in general about tech also.

Right. Tech. He was in awe of Doom's tech. He wasn't comparing it to forcefields he's encountered, but he couldn't possibly accurately compare them. How would he know if Doom's forcefield is the best? Because it's never been broken? The Avengers run into "unbreakable" forcefields all the time. Galactus, Champion, Magneto, Thanos, Stranger, Graviton, etc.


Galactus is more than capable of doing something from inside his shield........right? Coz he can do anything. So why did he go all out to Doom's shield with zero effect?

I suppose for the same reason he chooses to eyeblast people and miss all the time instead of snapping his fingers and molecularly melting them.