Forced to stand up for the allliagence

Mu Aunt and Uncle are American, JP, and they paint a very different picture from you- and furthermore, don't go off into such an unecessary rage when disagreed with, which only really undermines your point.

Frankly I don't think you are coming across very well here at all. What you have turned to now is right-wing autocratic ranting.

I suggest you calm down and try and engage in measured debate.

JP...

For one thing, you're generalizing an entire generation, so obviously what you said cannot be 100% true. Or are all the Vietnam War protests that everyone has heard about (which took place in that time) just fiction?

Number two...why is it THAT big a deal that some people don't want to stand for the pledge? If someone doesn't want to, they don't have to, and no one can make them do it. By not doing so they're not hurting anyone else. BUT by forcing someone who doesn't want to to stand and say the pledge, you ARE infringing on their rights which, nitpicky or not, is the truth. Freedom of Expression, m'dear, and I'll be damned if people aren't allowed to use it in this country that preaches that as one of its 'big things' that people died for.

pledge of allegiance should be a voluntarily thing though. Those who says the pledge stands while saying it, those who deceides to sit it out can sit and keep their mout shut while the others pledge their allegiance

Absolutely. The idea that anything like that should be enforced on principle is very old- more Stalinist than patriotic. It is basically just forcing for people to lie in the name of the flag, which shouldn't really be done.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Mu Aunt and Uncle are American, JP, and they paint a very different picture from you- and furthermore, don't go off into such an unecessary rage when disagreed with, which only really undermines your point.

Frankly I don't think you are coming across very well here at all. What you have turned to now is right-wing autocratic ranting.

I suggest you calm down and try and engage in measures debate.

ROTFLMAO........Ushgarak, you wouldnt know when I am mad or not if I drew you a picture. Ive long since learned there is no reason to get mad on this message board. It's pointless. And just because you post with authority that you know it all doesnt make it so. Facts are facts dear., your arent a citizen. I dont care if your dog is. You aren't. And until you are, you have nothing FIRSTHAND to base your argument on.

And I was a CHILD during the 60's. OK! Lets get that right. And while I think Vietnam is a complete and utter f-up on the part of this country, I do think the whole "hippie" movement was asinine. But hey that just me coming in from the "right-wing"

For me it isnt the whole issue of the flag. I think that's just what sparked my post. It's the coninual twisting of out constitution to fit whatever you feel like protesting.

And I was a CHILD during the 60's. OK!

I was born in 1961 Fin 🙂

Well, I think most people will happily draw the conclusion you were pretty angry there, JP.

You aren't a firsthand source for me either. Objective analysis of the facts at hand tell me this- you're are not talking about fact, and are massively over-generalising about your generation, and expecting everyone else to just accept that. A shame really- and without any value as an argument.

History tells us that throughout the latter 20th century there has always abeen a counter-movement against overblown US patriotism. To say only the new generation indulges in that kind of thing in any serious way is extraordinarily against the facts available. It seems pretty clear to me that it is only your biased viewpoint that makes you think that.

Make a convincing argument and maybe myself and other people will listen- but until then, you getting angry and shouting just because you are disagreed with helps nothing.

I was born in 1961 Fin

Though it should never be required, if some people actually did bother to stand for the pledge, a few things might fall out of their a$$es.

o...criticising a manditory pledge is the same as spitting on a soldier?

i see it as this: soldiers have fought and died since the founding of america to preserve our 'nit picky rights'. civil liberty is the foundation of our nation, and the second we allow them to be dissolved, then wtf does america stand for?
where is the line drawn?

Originally posted by PVS
o...criticising a manditory pledge is the same as spitting on a soldier?

i see it as this: soldiers have fought and died since the founding of america to preserve our 'nit picky rights'. civil liberty is the foundation of our nation, and the second we allow them to be dissolved, then wtf does america stand for?
where is the line drawn?

But not respecting our country is like spitting at them

hysterical Oh stop you are killing me fact man.
USH, DO you do ANYTHING besides quote statistics in an argument?

You dont live here. Sorry, but you're facts don't mean squat to me. And I also, dont care if the entire board thinks I'm raving. Or if they agree with me. 90% of the board are children. As are you if you want to take the age thing into consideration in regards to me. So keep spouting you facts and statistics. You dont live here. Your argument holds no water. 🙂

PVS you know exactly what I mean. Donlt jump in here and twist what I mean to suit your purpose.

What I find so amazing is that americans (altho other people do it to) always SEEM to have the idea that soldiers who died in a war the US was waging -applies to about every war they ever fought- was DEFENDING the rights of their own People. If anything they were defending the rights of people other than americans.

Has the US ever been invaded? No
Has there ever been a militairy attack on US soil? Pearl Harbour and 9/11 will about be it?

Then how in godsname can you even start to think that US troops fighting in Iraq, Afghanistan or Vietnam for that matter are defending YOUR rights????

None of those countries had the potential to come and invade your country and take away your rights.

(I left out the 2 World Wars because it would result in an Off Topic discussion about how vital the commitment of US TROOPS was to the defeating of the enemy in Europe)

no napalm, SPITTING on them is like spitting on them.

why must everyone grandstand with ridiculous analogies?

Originally posted by PVS
o...criticising a manditory pledge is the same as spitting on a soldier?

i see it as this: soldiers have fought and died since the founding of america to preserve our 'nit picky rights'. civil liberty is the foundation of our nation, and the second we allow them to be dissolved, then wtf does america stand for?
where is the line drawn?

Exactly. This country always touts our freedoms of speech, religion, and expression...our country was formed on these principles...but people get bitched at for trying to use them and protesting them being violated! There's something wrong with that picture.

Wow... that's a rather breaktaking contemptuous statement about the board, JP. I think that most of them here show considerably more maturity than you have in that post.

Very well- if you don't want to engage in rational debate, so be it.

Has there ever been a militairy attack on US soil?

No whats wrong is the way people take the constitution and rework it to suit themselves.

Ush you need to use bigger bait there man. Im not biting. 😆 Thanks for the laugh though.

Originally posted by Silver Stardust
Exactly. This country always touts our freedoms of speech, religion, and expression...our country was formed on these principles...but people get bitched at for trying to use them and protesting them being violated! There's something wrong with that picture.

Nobody died defending those rights