PhoenixII(Rachel) vs Franklin Richards

Started by King KAM5 pages
King KAM Senior Member

Originally posted by demigawd
Incorrect. Immortals are beyond the realm of Death - even Dr. Strange was able to stave off Death and saved Galactus in the process. The fact that Galactus is obligated to do something otherwise face Death is proof that he's below her. Remember, that's how Death works in the Marvel Universe...the victim's are CLAIMED. In order to claim Galactus, Death would have to have power over him.

Death and Oblivion are counterpoints to Eternity and Infinity. That's basic Marvel canon - it's the reason why the universe exists and is in balance. If Infinity were more powerful than Oblivion, then the population would spiral out of control and the universe would be unbound. Marvel specifically stated that they're equals. So how then can you justify you position that Galactus is more powerful than Oblivion and Death and less powerful than Eternity and Infinity? Especially when you consider that Galactus is in the domain of Death.

Thanos when he was upgradaded was more powerful then death with just a 1 cosmic gem, but he wasnt more powerful than galactus until after he had them all, death is a lower skyfather, she rules a realm but that has nothing to do with her fighting power, Death has shown no power equal to thanos, and oblivion got beat up by skreet and thanos, and galactus does imbody something in the universe if you ever payed attention he represents UNCERTAINTY making him neccessary to the universe.

demigawd Board Scientist

whoa...you're saying Thanos is more powerful than Death? Death is a lower skyfather?? Death only rules a realm??? Where are you getting this from? Are you confusing people like Pluto and Hela and Seth with Death? They're all elder gods and they answer to her...Death is the universal embodiment of the end of life. EVERYTHING that dies is under her. How on earth did you conclude that Thanos become more powerful than Death with one gem? When and where was this shown?

Also: When was Oblivion beaten by Skreet and Thanos? I read his series and have no recollection of this happening.

Yes, Galactus is necessary to the universe. So are all abstracts. That doesn't make him a powerful fighter. It just makes him necessary. Roma is necessary to the universe too, so is Atlaz, and neither of them are considered exceptionally powerful....they just have a very important role.

Just because Bush calls all the shots doesn't mean you can't kick his ass in a throw down.

King KAM Senior Member

Originally posted by demigawd
whoa...you're saying Thanos is more powerful than Death? Death is a lower skyfather?? Death only rules a realm??? Where are you getting this from? Are you confusing people like Pluto and Hela and Seth with Death? They're all elder gods and they answer to her...Death is the universal embodiment of the end of life. EVERYTHING that dies is under her. How on earth did you conclude that Thanos become more powerful than Death with one gem? When and where was this shown?

Also: When was Oblivion beaten by Skreet and Thanos? I read his series and have no recollection of this happening.

Yes, Galactus is necessary to the universe. So are all abstracts. That doesn't make him a powerful fighter. It just makes him necessary. Roma is necessary to the universe too, so is Atlaz, and neither of them are considered exceptionally powerful....they just have a very important role.

Just because Bush calls all the shots doesn't mean you can't kick his ass in a throw down.

Galactus IS powerful though, and oblivion was in the jail when thanos got into a fight with her, and death is the ruler of a realm but her psionic ability and might have never been shown and arent stated that she is much of a fighter.

leonheartmm Senior Member

oh jesus, r u SERIOUS KING KAM, death lower skyfather?! wtf, kmc is definately THE MOST ****ED UP FORUMS AVAILABLE ONLINE, people here have really lost it

demigawd Board Scientist
Originally posted by King KAM
Galactus IS powerful though, and oblivion was in the jail when thanos got into a fight with her, and death is the ruler of a realm but her psionic ability and might have never been shown and arent stated that she is much of a fighter.

hahaha....that wasn't Oblivion. That was BEYONDER!!! Likewise, you're confusing Death with one of Death's minions. Wow...you're all kinds of confused.

GalacticStorm Smart Alec Know-It-All

Franklin would have to be at full potential to win this. Child Franklin doesnt stand a chance.

Xplosive Restricted
Originally posted by hoorayforpeepee
i mean, adult franklin versus white crown phoenix still might go to franklin. .

What?

Originally posted by King KAM
these universes were all of his creation but not real.

WTF. They became real, they were literally real. He made them real.

Originally posted by demigawd
mmm...good point.

I see it this way:

Franklin >= most powerful Celestial
most powerful Celestial > Rachel Phoenix
Rachel Phoenix > Galactus

I see it that way:

Franklin >= most powerful Celestial
Rachel Phoenix > Franklin, most powerful Celestial

Originally posted by demigawd
and lots of physical beings.

Not really.

Originally posted by King KAM
power wise death is not equal to galactus nor is oblivion

Where the **** did you get that?

Originally posted by King KAM
death is a lower skyfather,.

What?

Phoenix 2 wins over Full potential Franklin Richards. Galactus said Phoenix 2 has greater power source, nothing has been said Richards is above Galactus. So Phoenix 2 takes this.

guy222 With my gal

Scathan or Tiamut>Franklin

Xplosive Restricted
Originally posted by guy222
Scathan or Tiamut>Franklin

Scathan definitely (and only logical explanation for him he was under TOAA power, when he appeared).
Tiamut, hm, is he really? Now, I know you can say, Galactus fears Tiamut. That doesn't justify Timaut>Franklin.
I don't think Full Power Galactus would be afraid of all Celestials combined.

Psi-Lord did destroy an alternate Universe. I don't see anything to put Tiamut beyond Full Power Franklin Richards.
Anyway, Rachel wins this.

Utrigita Senior Member
Originally posted by Xplosive
Psi-Lord did destroy an alternate Universe. I don't see anything to put Tiamut beyond Full Power Franklin Richards.
Anyway, Rachel wins this.

He destroyed it in a chain reaction by turning a ball of energy into antimatter.

Tiamut is likely stronger then Arishem and Arishem disconnected all travel to Franklin pocket universe while another of them held the entire pocket universe within herself. I find that quiet impressive.

Xplosive Restricted

Originally posted by Utrigita
He destroyed it in a chain reaction by turning a ball of energy into antimatter.

Tiamut is likely stronger then Arishem and Arishem disconnected all travel to Franklin pocket universe while another of them held the entire pocket universe within herself. I find that quiet impressive.

Psi-Lord did nonetheless.

That was also kid Franklin. It looked like, it was some percent of his full powers.

Utrigita Senior Member

Originally posted by Xplosive
Psi-Lord did nonetheless.

That was also kid Franklin. It looked like, it was some percent of his full powers.

Yes he did I just wanted to clearify that he didn't destroy the universe like said phoenix did in a alternate reality.

It was still franklin none the less, his full power varies some say that psi-lord have roughly 3/4 of kid franklins powers while others say he got more so...

Power16 Senior Member

So how does Rachel win does she have beyond universal powers or what?

Xplosive Restricted
Originally posted by Power16
So how does Rachel win does she have beyond universal powers or what?

To destroy 616 Universe, there is a need of Multiversal level of power.
In the Necrom fight, Rachel feared that she couldn't handle the power she thought she should use to destroy Necrom, she said it would destroy the Universe. So she let Necrom touch the Phoenix Force, to try to absorb it, but PF was far too much and Necrom was destroyed.

Power16 Senior Member

Ok, i can dig it but has she ever shown enough power to destroy the universe. On that whole Necrom issue is she the only that thinks she would destroy the universe or does someone else also say i could happen.

Xplosive Restricted
Originally posted by Power16
Ok, i can dig it but has she ever shown enough power to destroy the universe. On that whole Necrom issue is she the only that thinks she would destroy the universe or does someone else also say i could happen.

It was said that Universe would be destroyed.
She hasn't shown, she never did destroy an Universe.
We know Phoenix Force easily destroyed and alternate Universe.

She was always afraid of full scope of the Phoenix Force.

Power16 Senior Member

Thanks for the clear up.

guy222 With my gal

Originally posted by Xplosive
Scathan definitely (and only logical explanation for him he was under TOAA power, when he appeared).
Tiamut, hm, is he really? Now, I know you can say, Galactus fears Tiamut. That doesn't justify Timaut>Franklin.
I don't think Full Power Galactus would be afraid of all Celestials combined.

Psi-Lord did destroy an alternate Universe. I don't see anything to put Tiamut beyond Full Power Franklin Richards.
Anyway, Rachel wins this.

Full power Galactushmm

Frankie full power=1 Celestial. Which one, no one knows

Tiamut is the baddest Celestial. Gaiman's run of Eternals confirms that. He'll beat Franklin

Again, Galactus vs over 10 billion Celestials. Big G's chances aren't good

I like Rachel also. Tell me how she beats Frankie

Xplosive Restricted

She beats him because of the Phoenix Force. I can't see Frankie having any effect on her.

And I don't give any Celestial close tho the level of the Phoenix Force (not counting Scathan), do you?

Utrigita Senior Member
Originally posted by Xplosive
And I don't give any Celestial close tho the level of the Phoenix Force (not counting Scathan), do you?

But the fifth host is above the phoenix force level, They managed to defeat the Goblin force that prior to the confrontation had defeated the Phoenix Force. I have no idea of how they did it through tech probably but still...