Wolverine vs. Sasquatch

Originally posted by King_Mungi
I'm talking about Batman with his skill level with chi manipulation. He isn't on par with Iron Fist so how could he break down titatium without PIS? Now your exagerating, Wolverine skill level is great, but not his chi manipulation and that was my point.

your point is twisted.. this all started because you called batman's feats of kicking down things he shouldn't PIS.... obviously batman has the capacity to do things like that.. I've just proven it. well.. so does wolverine as he has proven...

Originally posted by King_Mungi
No post the scans that state it here

Originally posted by King_Mungi
You do realize Solomon Grudy has also been taken down by Green Arrow and his power level increase/decreases with each incarnation.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Also didn't you just say earlier his battle with Hulk is not canon.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Honestly how could Batman compete realistically with a person that took on the JLA and Superman himself. Ummm...those arn't chi attacks, those are martial arts moves. Show me where he has healed himself with chi

look above..

and yeah they are chi attacks.. one of them is the mountain rending hit I was talking about earlier even.. how you can argue that they are not chi attacks is beyond me... oh wait... do you consider them NOT to be chi attacks if they're not lit up like a super sayian? cause batman's more realistic than that in those terms...

how batman can compete with the JLA is obvious... brains.. he's the dc answer for brains vs. brawns and has shown it again and again.. like captain america has in the marvel verse.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Uhhh! it's like your not listening. Show me scans, I can spout things off but scans make it valid.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Huh? after seeing that I'm not impressed as Cap has done that as well. He went inbetween the vertebrae and it's a training robot. So your telling him his adamintium claws did less damage than him just using his hands? haha yeah silly me for calling it PIS.

oh wait.. NO, THAT'S NOT WHAT I SAID AT ALL... why insist on shoving words into my mouth that I'm not using? oh that's right cause you were caught wrong yet again.. wolverine's seen right there caving it's face in, crushing it's neck structure with his hands, and punching right through the center of the vertebrea and ribcage.... well if that's not enough to convicne you I don't know what is... everything you don't like you call PIS....

Originally posted by King_Mungi
The failsafe blocked his tp ability to use on Wolverine not his tk ability to use on the door. Get it?

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Rogue fight doesn't prove much as he jumped her and doesn't prove he can press multiple tons. Second pic you know what sort of strength you need to do something like that? way more strength than Sabertooth has. With Warbird Cap has lifted building beams as well, and how much does a beam weigh? Even oldschool Sabertooth got beaten by Blackcat

yes he certainly did because when he started out in his first several appearances he was just a nasty guy with claws and heightened senses.. it was later that very same year he gave rogue the 3 hitter quitter... if you think a peak human can do that to rogue, you're clearly beyond my help... you're just arguing for the sake of arguing anymore..it's rather sad...

Originally posted by King_Mungi
No it's not, try again. Psionic is linked to telepathy
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=psionic

Originally posted by leonidas
sure. that's why it's so important to try and look at the most consistent version of any character. you need to decide what are the 'highest feats' (out of character) and what the lowest feats (also out of character).

that's usually how i try and view any character in any battle.

You can always count on Leo to be the voice of reason.
While I do consider high and occasionally low end feats, my personal qualifier is reason. Specifically, if a given feat, putting all bias aside, actually makes sense given the way that individuals powerset has been described/portrayed or in the circumstances under which it occurs.

For example, in my mind you cannot have Cyclops able to level a forest with his optic blast and have him not be able to knock a 300lb man off his feet with the same blast. My brain simply cannot handle that level of cognitive dissonance and still function. And if a writer cannot be bothered to put forth a reasonable effort to justify his portrayal of established characters with established powers then I have no problem dismissing his or her work as either being of too poor a quality to consider or simply as PIS.

As to the fight in question, I'd have to go with Sasquatch for a number of reason even if I disregard the possibility of Tanaraq becoming involved in the fight. Sasquatch is vastly stronger, is arguably more durable (ie can take armor piercing rounds and has a healing factor), can generate thunderclaps, has similarly enhanced senses, has extremely fast reflexes, has a longer reach, and finally he is perhaps more mobile given his leaping ability (which if severely wounded would enable him to put distance between the two and thus time to heal).

So yea...Sasquatch vs. Wolverine, eh?

Sassy wins 9/10.

Originally posted by TheKahn
You can always count on Leo to be the voice of reason.
While I do consider high and occasionally low end feats, my personal qualifier is reason. Specifically, if a given feat, putting all bias aside, actually makes sense given the way that individuals powerset has been described/portrayed or in the circumstances under which it occurs.

For example, in my mind you cannot have Cyclops able to level a forest with his optic blast [b]and have him not be able to knock a 300lb man off his feet with the same blast. My brain simply cannot handle that level of cognitive dissonance and still function. And if a writer cannot be bothered to put forth a reasonable effort to justify his portrayal of established characters with established powers then I have no problem dismissing his or her work as either being of too poor a quality to consider or simply as PIS.

As to the fight in question, I'd have to go with Sasquatch for a number of reason even if I disregard the possibility of Tanaraq becoming involved in the fight. Sasquatch is vastly stronger, is arguably more durable (ie can take armor piercing rounds and has a healing factor), can generate thunderclaps, has similarly enhanced senses, has extremely fast reflexes, has a longer reach, and finally he is perhaps more mobile given his leaping ability (which if severely wounded would enable him to put distance between the two and thus time to heal). [/B]

how fast does his healing factor work? that's the only question I have..

btw> I agree with pretty much everything you said, I just don't think that described powersets can be dependable when they're constantly contradicted by feats...

Originally posted by jinzin
how fast does his healing factor work? that's the only question I have..

btw> I agree with pretty much everything you said, I just don't think that described powersets can be dependable when they're constantly contradicted by feats...

As to the question about the healing factor, I think we'd better ask King Mungi as I'm not 100% sure on that and I'm fairly certain that he could post scans to show just how fast a healing factor we're talking about here.

It's not the feats themselves that bug the crap out of me so much as it is the lack of even an attempt to explain how they are possible. It doesn't have to be in-depth or soundly based in science, just something moderately plausible is all I'm asking for. Like I said thay have something leveling a forest in one hand and not knocking over a 300lb man in the other. I need something to bridge the gap between the two and justify how the hell both could be possible (there are of course many more examples than this one).

Originally posted by TheKahn
As to the question about the healing factor, I think we'd better ask King Mungi as I'm not 100% sure on that and I'm fairly certain that he could post scans to show just how fast a healing factor we're talking about here.

It's not the feats themselves that bug the crap out of me so much as it is the lack of even an attempt to explain how they are possible. It doesn't have to be in-depth or soundly based in science, just something moderately plausible is all I'm asking for. Like I said thay have something leveling a forest in one hand and not knocking over a 300lb man in the other. I need something to bridge the gap between the two and justify how the hell both could be possible (there are of course many more examples than this one).

yeah I totally get what you're saying and I'm behind that ideal 100% but lets face facts here.. comics are just not that comprimising.. they're soap operahs and inconsistancies are going to occur... we just have to take them as they come.

Originally posted by jinzin
yeah I totally get what you're saying and I'm behind that ideal 100% but lets face facts here.. comics are just not that comprimising.. they're soap operahs and inconsistancies are going to occur... we just have to take them as they come.

Which, I think, leads to the question of if you consider unexplained or inconsistent feats in a debate? I imagine that the answer will vary from person to person (which is at least one of the reasons I think Wolverine debates tend to go on for so long). The problem being that both sides can make legitimate arguments as to whether such feats should or should not be counted. I'm just not sure if any amount of debating can get past this fundamental difference of opinion.

Originally posted by TheKahn
Which, I think, leads to the question of if you consider unexplained or inconsistent feats in a debate? I imagine that the answer will vary from person to person (which is at least one of the reasons I think Wolverine debates tend to go on for so long). The problem being that both sides can make legitimate arguments as to whether such feats should or should not be counted. I'm just not sure if any amount of debating can get past this fundamental difference of opinion.

exactly.. which I why i find arguments heavily reliant on people calling out PIS to overcome facts a bit ridiculous.. because it's basically the other side of the same coin.. but the differenceof opinion you're talking about doesn't really change...

Originally posted by jinzin
exactly.. which I why i find arguments heavily reliant on people calling out PIS to overcome facts a bit ridiculous.. because it's basically the other side of the same coin.. but the differenceof opinion you're talking about doesn't really change...

Which is why definitional arguments are often the most frustrating and infuriating as both sides could be right. It all depends on what you regard as PIS and what you considerable viable feats. And I honestly can't see an easy solution to such a problem 🙁.

Originally posted by TheKahn
Which is why definitional arguments are often the most frustrating and infuriating as both sides could be right. It all depends on what you regard as PIS and what you considerable viable feats. And I honestly can't see an easy solution to such a problem 🙁.

i don't think anybody can.. honestly...

you know khan.. I like you... I used to think you were fairly arrogant but after my first debate or two with you, I actually found you very reasonable.... wish more people around here could follow your lead... cheers.

Originally posted by jinzin
i don't think anybody can.. honestly...

you know khan.. I like you... I used to think you were fairly arrogant but after my first debate or two with you, I actually found you very reasonable.... wish more people around here could follow your lead... cheers.

Thanks. I'm sorry if I come off as arrogant at times (that really is not my intent) and I do try to make an effort to be as objective as possible. If being on here has actually shown me anything it's just how much I don't know which is why I'm the first to admit when I'm wrong.

And you're not to bad yourself. It is quite refreshing to see a Wolverine fan who is also a quality debator as well. 😉

😍

aww . . . the 2 of you brought a tear to my eye . . .

cry

but jin -- don't be fooled! those authority guys are tricky bastards!!

😄

'sure. that's why it's so important to try and look at the most consistent version of any character. you need to decide what are the 'highest feats' (out of character) and what the lowest feats (also out of character).

that's usually how i try and view any character in any battle.'

I've tried suggesting a simillar adjudication of characters abilities, in another forum. They weren't to keen with the idea, and i can see why. For example .... Most of you will agree that Thor is rarely depicted at a level in which he can destroy admantium ?, and yet he has done so. Using this 'medium' evaluation (Which is suggested by Leo), we come to the conclusion that he is unable to break adamantium (When already has done), which seems highly illogical ? 🙂

Bump ! 🙂

Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
'sure. that's why it's so important to try and look at the most consistent version of any character. you need to decide what are the 'highest feats' (out of character) and what the lowest feats (also out of character).

that's usually how i try and view any character in any battle.'

I've tried suggesting a simillar adjudication of characters abilities, in another forum. They weren't to keen with the idea, and i can see why. For example .... Most of you will agree that Thor is rarely depicted at a level in which he can destroy admantium ?, and yet he has done so. Using this 'medium' evaluation (Which is suggested by Leo), we come to the conclusion that he is unable to break adamantium (When already has done), which seems highly illogical ? 🙂

true. but in other circumstances he has been unable to break it. he's battled unltron several times and not 'broken' him. he's pounded on cap's shield without effect many times. i agree it's a difficult determination to make, but if a high showing stands alone amid a series of incomparable feats, shouldn't we throw it out? it's a tough call . . . 🙁

Originally posted by leonidas
true. but in other circumstances he has been unable to break it. he's battled unltron several times and not 'broken' him. he's pounded on cap's shield without effect many times. i agree it's a difficult determination to make, but if a high showing stands alone amid a series of incomparable feats, shouldn't we throw it out? it's a tough call . . . 🙁

The only way to sort this problem out, is if the writers get together an set some universal power limits that the characters are not allowed to over come. E.G. Adamantium is unbreakable period, unless you wiled the power cosmic / control magnetism or have potentially unlimited Strength. 🙂

Originally posted by leonidas
😍

aww . . . the 2 of you brought a tear to my eye . . .

cry

but jin -- don't be fooled! those authority guys are tricky bastards!!

😆

did you win that auction leo?

Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
The only way to sort this problem out, is if the writers get together an set some universal power limits that the characters are not allowed to over come. E.G. Adamantium is unbreakable period, unless you wiled the power cosmic / control magnetism or have potentially unlimited Strength. 🙂

i agree. inconsistency is caused by writers and their differing opinions of a character. they SHOULD get together, but that may be viewed as stunting creativity or individual interpretation of characters.

tis a pretty pickle indeed. 🙁

oh and jin, i still need to figure out HOW to bid! never used ebay before . . . 😮

you want ME to buy it? and then i could just send it to you?

The last couple of posts by Kahn, jinzin and leonidas not only sxpound on everything that I agree with and believe about comics characters at the moment, but each post was so well written and each idea so well communicated that you have restored all my faith in humanity's ability to reason and interact...that is until the next idiot comes along and types something as illuminating as...

Yeh Wolverrrene! He reely is ahsome! Yu alll suck!