Originally posted by Wynndar
what the hell...u missed the point again...he doesnt have to pull anything outn of his ass...he could see the flash coming a year before the flash attacks...u missed the point.
No, YOU are the one missing the point. You are saying that the FF4 has preptime. They DON'T. It's a straight-up fight. No tech. No time-vision machines. Just the teams.
Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Does seem uneven doesn't it?A little like Galactus v FF. I presume you'll see where that's going.
that the FF are going to get the Ultimate Nullifier?
that they're going to call in The Avengers?
that they're going to make Johnny into a herald and ask Quasar for help?
Other than that, no clue.
Originally posted by Wynndar
*sigh* flash and MM knocking anyone out is purely ur opinion since they have never faced anyone in the FF. Thats like me saying the Thing would win because he would knock out every member of the JLA, despite their powers.....................in one punch...
Translation: I've lost this argument. I have no facts nor evidence.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
YOU are saying it as if the fight has happened.Who's more in the wrong? He's going by history, you're going by.....nothing.
-AC
I'm going by facts and history. The hell are you talking about. You don't have anything. Demigawd said it best:
So it stands as this. The reasoning provided that the FF would win seems to consist of, "They're the FF - they're good at beating overwhelming odds. They'll figure something out".
The reasoning provided that the JLA would win seems to consist of, "Flash knocks them out before they can think" "MM knocks them out with one telepathic attack" "GL pounds them with the most powerful weapon in the universe".
Originally posted by demigawd
that the FF are going to get the Ultimate Nullifier?
that they're going to call in The Avengers?
that they're going to make Johnny into a herald and ask Quasar for help?Other than that, no clue.
No, they aren't going to do those specific things. Three of the methods they used to overcome an opponent like Galactus.
Is all about agency, me old mucker.
Originally posted by WynndarThe first post said they get transported and fight. So Flash and MM beat them easily.
*sigh* flash and MM knocking anyone out is purely ur opinion since they have never faced anyone in the FF. Thats like me saying the Thing would win because he would knock out every member of the JLA, despite their powers.....................in one punch...
Going by nothing? Let's analyze their powers and abilities:
MM - turns intangible, makes physical powers useless. Has telepathy, knocks people out instantly.
Flash - runs and fights faster than thought.
Hal - the most powerful GL. Can do anything he can imagine.
Firestorm - who knows.
FF - has all physical powers. Has no telepathic shields. Can't react faster than light.
Well, I'm done analyzing. If one of the FF supporters would like to chime in, I'm sure there's something I missed.
Oh yeah, that's right, "They'll figure something out".
oh i see
situation 1:
JLA and FF r transported into an indestructable, and mystically sealed room that no one can phase, break, burn, or teleport through...they r all naked of any kinds of weapons or tech or preparation...its just four on four go against each other all at once.
-Flash would immediately be just as bewildered as the rest of the characters...when he does get his senses he attacks the FF for no reason at all...since this is his character, and he always attacks 4 peaceful looking character who might be a threat.
-Since Sue always maintains a forcefield around herself at all times just in case, since she has been a hero for many many years and always due for another sneak attack from Doctor Doom or Annihilus or the Skrulls, she is protected from any superspeed or telpeathic attacks. She then continues to protect the rest of her family in this same invisible shield.
-Martian Manhunter has also began to attack the FF with a telepathic and physical assualt for no apparent reason at this time, as well...However, neither he or Flash have any effect on the invisible forcefield which has demonstrated it cannot be broken by sheer force, or by phasing, or even mystics or teleporters.
-The invisible Woman continues to make her and the rest of the team invisible while still protected by her invisible forcefield...throwing reasoning into the wind, they decide to just go ahead and senselessly fight the brutes who r attacking them in the same fashion.
-First off the torch removes all ambient heat energy in the room...all memebers of JLA present that are not totally invulnerable...maybe Supes and MM are immediately crippled in the fight.
-Next The Thing creates a thunderclap to neutralize all characters who have mortal phyisiololgy or r vulnerablitiy to sonics.
-For those who r still able to put a fight, the Invisible Woman makes their retinas invisble causing them to go blind.
-Now, FF just go around beating the shit out of the totally vulnerable JLA...mortlas like the Flash, Batman, And GL have already been dramatically crippled and the Thing and Torch continue to either smash or Nova blast them to death...Superman is still able to go, but he's slowed down by having no heat and he's also blind...First the Thing beates the hell out of him, then the Torch Nova flames him...if he's still going at this point, IW just makes a forcefield in his brain and makes his skull explode...
-Now MM is the only JLA that hasnt been turned to a stain yet, but he is also slowed down like Superman was before the FF killed him...So he is hit with a barage of Nova Flame, Punches, and Invisible Assualts...he avoids some of these by phasing, maybe, even though he's already blind and freezing cold...Richards tells Sue to use the same homonic hyperspace attack that she used to shatter a celestials armor and an army of Hyperstorm's juggernauts...this attack serves to do MM harm and although it doesnt kill him, he is left out of his phase form long enough for Torch to vaporize him with Nova flame.
-the end
*if the JLA and FF were transported to a battlefield, why would the flash attack the FF.000001 seconds after he was transported there? he has never attacked someone in that fashion before...additionally, he would be memntarily just as confused as everyone else.
situation 2:
since good comics dont have two good teams of heroes fight in an inescapable room ...not since the eighties...the FF and JLA fight under regular terms...both temas have prep, their tech, etc.
-The Flash speed attacks the Baxter Building...er...because apparently the JLA r on the attack...
-Richards knows he is going to try this and creates a hidden field around the Baxter building that serves to nullify the Flashes powers.
-The Flash is reduced to a regular human.
-At this time the Thing leapes from the top of the Baxter Building and lands on the Flash turning him into a red puddle.
-Enraged, Superman attacks the Thing...Superman being physically Superior has a certain adavantage over the Thing, but seeing that the THing has fought the Gladiator, Champion, Hulk DEstroyer, Thanos, etc, he is not immediately beaten.
-Richards previously analyzes Superman's origin/physiology and tells the Torch to absorb all the ultraviolet energy from Superman (torch has ultraviolet light powers for those of u who dont know)
Superman's strength is dramatically reduces and Thing, being the better fighter, eventually KO's him...Then IW makes his skull explode for no apparent reason.
-Richards find some kind of tight beam sonics/psionic blah blah blah device that hurts martian manhunter while he is phased...he comes out of phase and Invisible woman forces him into a tiny invisible bubble...Torch Nova blasts the bubble, while IW modifies the field to allow heat in and nothing out...MM dies
-Im not sure who's left...Maybe Batman...he scoopes up the remains of his friends and runs home for prep time.
-Batman returns with the Entire JLA a few hours later with a kick ass plan to remove the powers from the FF and beat them...
-Richards got on an interdimensional forum with thousands of other Richards in the multiverse.
-The Richards decide to send 100 FF teams to that reality to fight the JLA...some of the FF r from the future and have dramatically increaded powers having absorbed cosmic rays for a longer period of time.
-The 100 FF's continue to annihilate the JLA
Originally posted by demigawd
Sounds reasonable. Except - Sue cannot defend against telepathic attacks.
Yes...she can...I wont say that she has never been attacked telepathically...because i know Galactus has done it...his level of power is much higher than MM or Jean Grey or prof X though...but any writer who has shown her succeptable to attack from a conventional telepath, through her force field was being inconsistent...although i cant think of any times when this has happened
by god! AC is a F4 fanboy! anyone who thinks that the F4 could beat these particular JLA members is completely, absolutely, gonzo.
i would LOVE to see how anybody could put up a scenario where the F4 could win.
firestorm is far superior to human torch, MM could take out invisible woman, and flash could take out the F4 solo before they could even blink. throw in a GL, and well...
and about the galactus thing? it took all the heroes on earth to beat a STARVING galactus. short of the ultimate nullifier or a nova blast, F4 can not even come close to harming a starving galactus, much less defeat him.