Bush = Hitler!

Originally posted by Thunderstrike
A lot of truth in those words. Good Quote.

Ironic. It applies to Bush with the greatest of pertinence.

Originally posted by Thunderstrike
Not really. Just a difference in opinion. Who's Marcus?

Not really. What I said is more factual than opinion-based. If no one questioned the leaders of their respective countries, then you'd find yourself living in a facist state, rather than a democracy.

Then we have what you said about if you do not like a place, then you should leave. That's correct, but it's very different from not liking a rogue president and sticking around. 'President' - 'Place'; there's a difference. I'm surprised you didn't know that. Actually, I'm not.

Finally, we have your bit about 'what the heck is complaining about foreign policy going to do for you?'. Well, if you never leave your own trailer, then it's unlikely to worry you. However, if you step out of your own country, you'll fiind a lot of angry people. Why? American 'foreign policy' is - under Bush - an oxymoronic term. What it should be called is 'imperialism'. It's a shame that the USA never learnt from the mistakes of the former British Empire in this regard. Indeed, seeing as we're in a mood for quotes, here's another great one:

"America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between."

- Oscar Wilde

Originally posted by Thunderstrike
Who's Marcus?

No one of any real consequence. He was just a little boy who had his botty spanked and was then sent to bed without any supper.

Soleran30> "I would have to actually spend time to refute his 9/11 film and its not time I am willing to spend at length at the moment."
Well, then... Is it safe to say, that you simply ASSUME that Michael Moore "spins" evidence and slanders?? What parts of "Bowling for Columbine" did he "spin"?
Healthy scepticism is good. How many people who watch Fox news have this trait, I ask? Where's the healthy scepticism towards the claims of the Bush-administration??
Is or is it not true that the US has the most death by fire-arms in the Western World? How does that statistic "suck arse"???

Reading your David Kopel site... I'm sorry, but a claim such as 58) "Moore pretends to support our troops. But in fact, he supports the enemy i Iraq - the coalition of Saddam loyalists, al Qaeda operatives, and terrorist...", is completely idiotic! It's this "You're either with us or against us" ultra-concervative BS. Claim 54) is open for debate. Claim 53) clearly shows David missing the point of Moore's attempt to enlisting the kids of Congressmen for the army. 56) well, where are the numbers then?? Doesn't this contradict 53)? 51) A soldier's pay as of now does not refute Moore's claim that Bush proposed to cut this pay. 49) No one claimed it was a PoW. How does David know what really happened though?
44) Moore is not showing a happy free pre-invasion Iraq. He shows everyday iraqi people in everyday situations. 43) What Condoleezza Rices said, she said. 17) Is not a refusal of what Moore claims, nor has he claimed the tie was Bush's invention.
Or, or what about 8)!! You can't prove the non-existence of something...

You, however, are still to refute what I asked you in my previous post.

DiamondBullets>"Just a leftie shouting his opinions."
Have you seen Fahrenheit 9/11?
If you look at my post above, I am referring to evidence that is not Michael Moore's OWN opinion but there for EVERYONE to see.
If Michael Moore is merely "shouting his opinions" would it not be easy to refute his claims?
Refute just one of the above in my previous post, please.

Soleran, Dave Kopel is a libertarian political shill who's own supposed refutes of F9/11 are themselves filled with conservative lies and republican talking points. Not to mention that any movie who uses a racist cVnt like Ann Coulter as a source cannot possibly be objective.
and before you bring in Michael Moore Hates America, celcius 41.11, and the big stupid white guy book, Celcius was virtually comissioned by the Bush administration and features the same pundits that are in farenhype, Michael Moore Hates America was comissioned by an internet porn tycoon and funded by the republican party, and the stupid white guy book was written by a formerly homeless blogger and a reagan cabinet official who spent most of the early 90's in jail for lying under oath.
Not to mention that all of these have been themselves discredited repeatedly in several publications as lying, misleading, heavily edited, and essentially republican comissioned smear jobs.

Hey Omega I am not here to say that Moore is wrong about everything I even said that in my first post🙂 So out of 59 you are saying 10 are bunk ok that leaves 49 that are good and thats alot of facts to get incorrect in a Documentary. Besides I just need to be able to show that within reasonable limits Moore misrepresented facts, if he'll do it for one who says that won't be the case for several?

What I do say and KNOW is that Moore's information is typically slandered by how he is showing his materials.......................not unlike alot of news in the USA or world really which is why I said I tend to be skeptical and in my mind ask whats this person's agenda, what do they want?

Bush isn't Hitler...............he isn't even remotely close to Hitler.

If you wanna do Michael Moore thread we can do that but BFC doesn't really relate to Bush it just relates to how I have seen Moore represent certain information in his documentaries and why I don't believe his 9/11 doc in it entirety.

I still agree, If we are to compare Bush to a dictator, he's more of a combination of a cross between Benito Mussolini, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, and Saparmurat Niyazov

Originally posted by Darth Jello
I still agree, If we are to compare Bush to a dictator, he's more of a combination of a cross between Benito Mussolini, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, and Saparmurat Niyazov

Hmm I am not so sure about all of that. Especially since we can limit his terms in office. So I suppose if you want to hunt and search for idealogical similarities you could use anyone...............and dig for the similarities.

But hey its pretty obvious he isn't a socialist...........compare all day long the associations are what they are but he still isn't a dictator.

Originally posted by Thunderstrike
A lot of truth in those words. Good Quote.

It applies to a lot of people. Patriotism isn't always a safe bet for a propagandist. Anyone who can really see the big picture wouldn't be fooled so easily...unless they fill with so much hatred that they'll even accept the word of manipulator as weapon of choice.

Originally posted by Soleran
Hmm I am not so sure about all of that. Especially since we can limit his terms in office. So I suppose if you want to hunt and search for idealogical similarities you could use anyone...............and dig for the similarities.

But hey its pretty obvious he isn't a socialist...........compare all day long the associations are what they are but he still isn't a dictator.

If by socialist you meant to imply national socialism, i have to point out that big business and private enterprise thrived under nazi germany. The "socialism" was always a misnomer used to attract working class and WWI vets too disillusioned and antisemitic to fall under what they assumed was "jewish" communism and too frightened of anarchists.

Soleran> I stopped after the 10 random points I picked out of David Kopel's site. You're still to refute my points from Fahrenheit 9/11 two posts ago, which, btw, DK's site does not!
So you are eagerly jumping to the conclusion that the remaining 49 DK points are valid, just because I did not bother reading any further???? You seem to place more time in my hands than you, yourself (and admitted by you) want to bother spending.
I do not BUY everything Michael Moore says without scepticism. However, much of what is said and presented is not Moore's INVENTIONS. It's there for everyone to find and comment on.

Did Bush or did he not lie about the presences of WoD in Iraq? Okay, Bush lies! If he does it on one important matter, who says that won't be the case for several?

Why are you bringing the "Bush in not Hitler" into this debate again? When and where did Michael Moore make such a claim??

I did not start debating Michael Moore here. Did Bush use propaganda and scare-tactics against the American population to gain back-up to invade Iraq, which had nothing to do with 9/11???
What was the REAL reason to invade Iraq? Why did the UN not support in the invasion??

The foreign policies of the Bush-administration actually scares me a little. The Danish Prime minister decided to join the Iraq-invading coalition. This is in violation with the Danish COnstitution, the attack on a soverign nation without prior attack on Denmark or its allies.
A group of citizens has actually sued the Danish government for this violation. Of course, the public prosecutor claims the group of citizens has no right to sue...

On Monday, former Secretary of State Colin Powell told me that he and his department's top experts never believed that Iraq posed an imminent nuclear threat, but that the president followed the misleading advice of Vice President Dick Cheney and the CIA in making the claim....

I queried Powell at a reception following a talk he gave in Los Angeles on Monday. Pointing out that the October 2002 National Intelligence Estimate showed that his State Department had gotten it right on the nonexistent Iraq nuclear threat, I asked why did the president ignore that wisdom in his stated case for the invasion?

"The CIA was pushing the aluminum tube argument heavily and Cheney went with that instead of what our guys wrote," Powell said. And the Niger reference in Bush's State of the Union speech? "That was a big mistake," he said. "It should never have been in the speech. I didn't need Wilson to tell me that there wasn't a Niger connection. He didn't tell us anything we didn't already know. I never believed it." When I pressed further as to why the president played up the Iraq nuclear threat, Powell said it wasn't the president: "That was all Cheney."...

The harsh truth is that this president cherry-picked the intelligence data in making his case for invading Iraq and deliberately kept the public in the dark as to the countervailing analysis at the highest level of the intelligence community. While the president and his top Cabinet officials were fear-mongering with stark images of a "mushroom cloud" over American cities, the leading experts on nuclear weaponry at the Department of Energy (the agency in charge of the U.S. nuclear-weapons program) and the State Department thought the claim of a near-term Iraqi nuclear threat was absurd.

http://www.bushwatch.com/bush.htm

Soleran> The Danish TV showed Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11 this evening, so I had a chance to see it again.

- Is it true that Al Gore did receive more votes during the 2000 election that George Bush?

No Gore didn't.

- Is it true that the Bush-administration knew Al-Queda would attack the US because said administration received a report in the summer of 2001?

Even if they did receive a report how do you shutdown the entire US and cause widespread panic from a nonspecific report? I am certain that terrorists send out threats constantly with their EXACT plans and methods........yeah right.

- Is it true, that while all planes were grounded after 9/11, the White House ensured that 24 Bin-Laden family-members could leave the USA without being questioned about Osama?

Your answer is NO yet again.

Moore’s assertions are all wrong. First of all, the flights carrying Bin Laden family members did not take place while other civilian flights were grounded, as Moore suggests. The one flight that actually carried Bin Laden family members took place on September 20, a week after flight restrictions had been lifted. Flights carrying other Saudis also occurred on or after September 13, when flying was no longer restricted. Also, all the Saudis who left the country on the flights Moore mentions were in fact thoroughly interviewed by the FBI before leaving. And finally, the flights were approved personally (and exclusively) by White House counterterrorism head Richard Clarke, whom Moore later cites with approval as an authority.

http://www.eppc.org/publications/pubID.2199/pub_detail.asp

- Did the White House censor several pages in an official rapport about 9/11??

Maybe..........

- Did Richard Clarke say on TV, that during a staff meeting following 9/11, Bush told said staff to say Iraq was behind 9/11??

maybe......

Is the above slander?? What EVIDENCE did Michael Moore "spin"? You seem to toss out accusations of slander and spin without being able to back it up. THAT, sir, is slander.

No Moore very deliberatly used words that allowed him to spin the position he wanted you to see.

I'll get to moore later. I don't think Bush is a saint, Hell I don't believe any high up politician is a saint. However I know Moore spins his pieces and adds flare to pictures to lead you to believe what he wants you to believe.

I said Bush isn't Hitler because thats what this entire thread is about. Now we should probably have a Michael Moore hand holding session for people that watched his "documentaries" and don't know his spins.

Originally posted by Soleran
- Is it true that Al Gore did receive more votes during the 2000 election that George Bush?

No Gore didn't.

Eh...What are you talking about, Soleran? Gore did receive more votes from the individual members of the public than Bush. This has been established for years!

2000 US election Results

Bush - 50,456,169
Gore - 50,996,116

Do you need me to do the math or can you do that yourself?

I didn't read on after that, as you've repeatedly shown yourself to be ignorant of the most basic facts regarding Bush's actions.

Originally posted by Soleran
Soleran> The Danish TV showed Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11 this evening, so I had a chance to see it again.

- Is it true that Al Gore did receive more votes during the 2000 election that George Bush?

No Gore didn't.

- Is it true that the Bush-administration knew Al-Queda would attack the US because said administration received a report in the summer of 2001?

Even if they did receive a report how do you shutdown the entire US and cause widespread panic from a nonspecific report? I am certain that terrorists send out threats constantly with their EXACT plans and methods........yeah right.

- Is it true, that while all planes were grounded after 9/11, the White House ensured that 24 Bin-Laden family-members could leave the USA without being questioned about Osama?

Your answer is NO yet again.

Moore’s assertions are all wrong. First of all, the flights carrying Bin Laden family members did not take place while other civilian flights were grounded, as Moore suggests. The one flight that actually carried Bin Laden family members took place on September 20, a week after flight restrictions had been lifted. Flights carrying other Saudis also occurred on or after September 13, when flying was no longer restricted. Also, all the Saudis who left the country on the flights Moore mentions were in fact thoroughly interviewed by the FBI before leaving. And finally, the flights were approved personally (and exclusively) by White House counterterrorism head Richard Clarke, whom Moore later cites with approval as an authority.

http://www.eppc.org/publications/pubID.2199/pub_detail.asp

- Did the White House censor several pages in an official rapport about 9/11??

Maybe..........

- Did Richard Clarke say on TV, that during a staff meeting following 9/11, Bush told said staff to say Iraq was behind 9/11??

maybe......

Is the above slander?? What EVIDENCE did Michael Moore "spin"? You seem to toss out accusations of slander and spin without being able to back it up. THAT, sir, is slander.

No Moore very deliberatly used words that allowed him to spin the position he wanted you to see.

I'll get to moore later. I don't think Bush is a saint, Hell I don't believe any high up politician is a saint. However I know Moore spins his pieces and adds flare to pictures to lead you to believe what he wants you to believe.

I said Bush isn't Hitler because thats what this entire thread is about. Now we should probably have a Michael Moore hand holding session for people that watched his "documentaries" and don't know his spins.

Probably a good idea to start a Micheal Moore opinion thread. Him being mentioned has kinda got off the subject.

Bush = Hitler?
❌

Bush = Bush
✅

I'll go start the thread. The answer to the question is apparent. If it isn't for some people, read these articles:
Hitler: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler
George W. Bush: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Bush

I'll go start the Moore thread.

Someone's having trouble with non-literal interpretations...

PRESIDENT EV States Won Vote % Votes
BUSH 271 30 48% 50,456,169
GORE 266 21 48% 50,996,116

Bush 271 EV =more votes then Gore, the question didn't specify popular or electoral.

You silly thing.

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
You silly thing.

Indeed

Soleran>"No Gore didn't."
Goodness!! When I ask who got the most VOTES, I am asking who the most Americans voted FOR. Not some peculiar electorial stuff, which obviously means that the US can have a sitting president with LESS votes backing him than his opponent. That's SO weird...

- So, you do not deny that the Bush-administration had prior knowledge of an Al-Queda attack in 2001?

- Who's written the article you refer to??
I here have a newspaper article for you from the New York Times http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/27/politics/27exodus.html?ex=1269579600&en=e2d6f668130376a2&ei=5090&partner=excite written by Eric Lichtblau

I understand that you're sceptical towards both Buch and Moore. That's good. As I already told you, I don't think Moore's 100% objective. But i think he's asking some questions, and pointing out some things, that NEEDS pointing out.
And most of his opponents resorts to personal attacks on the MAN, not his arguments.

Why would I even go through the absurd notion of attempting to deny ANY terrorist threats? Where are you getting your intelligence from that would illustrate that Bush/Cabinet would know the kind of strike, where the strike would hit and other obvious pieces of intelligence.

We are threatened I am fairly certain every day in the USA. How do you decipher the good from the bogus threats...........and where/what they are going to do. Keep a country on peak security measure and walk on eggshells everywhere..........yeah thats called terror and how they want you to act.

the electoral college is very undemocratic and should be abolished in favor of direct elections with electronic machines that leave paper trails/receipts.
the only good thing that the electoral college has ever done is stopped Richard Nixon from beating Kennedy.