Tournament Final

Started by DigiMark0076 pages

BUMP!

-DM

Originally posted by Scoobless
Unless Vision takes a pot shot at him with his microwave beam before engaging Dragon Man, that would hurt if not kill him with his attention focused on WM, if it only hurt him it would leave him open to a good skull cracking from WM

Unless of course BB had a shield up, which he would if he was even thinking of fighting Wonder Man OR Vision.

Originally posted by Scoobless
he repelled Thor's strongest physical blows and his godforce blast

Hasn't Juggernaut stood up to the godforce blast?

Originally posted by Scoobless
maybe not hundreds per second, but his shield has been left unaffected by other class 100 guys....... there's no reason to assume that 100 hits would have any more effect than 1 hit as it isn't a solid physical object that is trying to be broken, besides the faster you try to punch the less force you get into each shot.... it wouldn't be like loads of full force punches, just a lot of mediocre ones

Actually, coming from a man as strong as Majestic, even less than full power haymakers would still be devastating. Also, taking hits from other class 100 guys is NOT taking hits from Majestic. Huge difference in power.

Originally posted by Scoobless
infrared is light whether it is visible to humans or not (Wonderman can see in infrared) However, when going against the Redeemers Fixer was present with his tech pack, he performed a full scan of Graviton and had the ability to use or create weapons that would prove useful via the tech pack...... if a simple laser would have worked he'd have used it........ he also held all of earth's heroes suspended in the air....... including Photon.....(or captain marvel, or whatever she's called now) and she can transform into any part of the electromagnetic spectrum including light but she couldn't escape

I know infrared light is still light, but that doesn't make it the exact same thing as visible light. The fact is that visible light passes through his shield, and that's what Majestic's laser vision is. And against someone who operates at superspeed, Graviton has no chance of countering it. The thing is, maybe it didn't occur to the writers of that particular comic when they were writing for Fixer and Photon, but the fact that they put Graviton inside a see-through forcefield means that the visible spectrum of light can and does pass through his shields.

Originally posted by Scoobless
no they aren't as skilled at flight as graviton but with 3 hours of prep he can teach them how to use their shields properly at the very least. the point is that they will have additional speed, maneuvering ability and resistance to injury in their individual battles ....... for example: if Hawksmoor tried to "liquefy the pavement" they could easily escape through flight...... hell they could just float off the ground against him just to be safe (the criminals he recruited to "sky island" used their newfound powers to an effective degree within hours of receiving them)

Jack's only weapons aren't his strength and speed, he speaks to the city he is fighting in. He can order buildings to crush opponents and he can ignite gas mains. Their shields may be strong, but I doubt they can stand up to every building in the area being out to destroy them AND the attacks from BB and Jenny.

Originally posted by Scoobless
even Wonderman and Vision who can already fly would be given additional shielding and with Wonderman practically indestructible already that means trouble for Dragon Man and Black Bolt

and when they do beat everyone else.......if jenny is still around, Graviton can tear her apart with a thought..... exactly like he did to jolt


Unless they become deaf when in their shields, Black Bolt's quasi-sonic scream is going to mess them up. Hell, Black Bolt as saved the Thing from a group of miniature black holes created by Graviton by containing them in a magnetic field. Your boys are in trouble when every time they try to manipulate gravity Black Bolt traps them and slams them together.

Jenny IS electricity. She can travel through power lines or anything else that conducts electricity. Even if he could disperse her, she could simply draw on more energy from the surrounding power grid.

Originally posted by Scoobless
please tell me you are not on the side of Bishop in the Bishop/Doom thread.......

LOL Not on that side? I'm the one who STARTED the thread! 😄 I'm actually as surprised as anyone it went on as long as it did... >_>

Originally posted by Scoobless
this has been bugging me........ physically speaking, exactly how can a human sized person, of any strength level, rip a star apart? stars are made of gas and have enormous gravity.......... if part of it were somehow moved the gravity would pull it back......like a solar flare........ how can it been torn apart?????

Yeah, he actually flew into the sun, stayed at the center for, if I remember correctly, a week, while he performed a very lengthy spell to split the sun into a binary star.

Originally posted by Scoobless
again..........HOW? ............ lol............... the physical realities of it seem ludicrous...... how do you close a black hole????

I don't think they ever explained How it worked, but he built some pair of gauntlets that let him grasp the event horizon and disrupt or neutralize it, and since he was the only one on earth who could survive going into or near the event horizon, he went out and flew it in there. I know they aren't the best explanations, but that's all I remember, and I can't find the comics themselves.

Originally posted by Khellendros
Unless of course BB had a shield up, which he would if he was even thinking of fighting Wonder Man OR Vision.

if he's focusing his power into his shield he can't do much else though, especially if splitting his focus means Wonderman busting through the shield......which means he isn't going anywhere and and Vision could blindside him

Originally posted by Khellendros
Hasn't Juggernaut stood up to the godforce blast?

yeah.... when he was channeling the entire power of Cyttorak and was completely invulnerable

Originally posted by Khellendros
Actually, coming from a man as strong as Majestic, even less than full power haymakers would still be devastating. Also, taking hits from other class 100 guys is NOT taking hits from Majestic. Huge difference in power.

Thor's hammer strikes and blasts are at least as strong as any other 100 class character...... especially when he's pissed off or using Godforce.....(stupid name by the way...... isn't everything a "God" does "Godforce"?)

Originally posted by Khellendros
I know infrared light is still light, but that doesn't make it the exact same thing as visible light. The fact is that visible light passes through his shield, and that's what Majestic's laser vision is. And against someone who operates at superspeed, Graviton has no chance of countering it. The thing is, maybe it didn't occur to the writers of that particular comic when they were writing for Fixer and Photon, but the fact that they put Graviton inside a see-through forcefield means that the visible spectrum of light can and does pass through his shields.

i keep forgetting things that Graviton has done in the past....... he can increase the density of his own body to the point where a laser beam would affect him as much as a day on the beach but without the skin cancer part (if it could pass through his shield..... i'm still not fully convinced as gravity does affect light) ........ had i recalled this earlier i would definitely have mentioned it..... so he enters the battle very dense (and i don't mean stupid) and non-laser-killable

Originally posted by Khellendros
Jack's only weapons aren't his strength and speed, he speaks to the city he is fighting in. He can order buildings to crush opponents and he can ignite gas mains. Their shields may be strong, but I doubt they can stand up to every building in the area being out to destroy them AND the attacks from BB and Jenny.

perhaps, perhaps not, which is why i have given them the ability to fly out the way if it looks like that may happen....... also Grav can perform multiple tasks at once..... and crushing a city would be childsplay to him in recent appearances

But BB will be busy (or dead) elsewhere

Originally posted by Khellendros
Unless they become deaf when in their shields, Black Bolt's quasi-sonic scream is going to mess them up. Hell, Black Bolt as saved the Thing from a group of miniature black holes created by Graviton by containing them in a magnetic field.

again BB will be busy elsewhere at the very least..... the scream will do as much damage to the buildings .......hurting Hawksmoor....... and to your street characters as it will to my powerful street and street guys.... it'll even "hurt" Dragon Man more than a reinforced Wonderman

i wasn't going to bring up black holes, but as you mentioned them...... with Graviton having MUCH more control over his powers now than when he encountered the thing, he could create a mini-black hole next to everyone of your guys........ or inside them

Originally posted by Khellendros
Jenny IS electricity. She can travel through power lines or anything else that conducts electricity. Even if he could disperse her, she could simply draw on more energy from the surrounding power grid.

so is Jolt and it took her a long time to pull herself back together

so, Grav is suped up to class 100 physical invulnerability levels, everyone can fly which makes most of them faster and there is the possibility a black hole could open inside any of your team at any time

i wonder what i'll remember about my teams powers later....... 🙂

Originally posted by Scoobless
if he's focusing his power into his shield he can't do much else though, especially if splitting his focus means Wonderman busting through the shield......which means he isn't going anywhere and and Vision could blindside him

Actually, he can still fly and create containment fields around enemies, so keeping up a personal forcefield while fighting with Wonderman isn't out of the norm. Hell, in one of GRaviton's appearance, he sent a gravity field into the sun to gather power and was bringing it back to earth to use. Black bolt actually surrounded himself in a forcefield strong enough to protect him in space, flew up there and used his electron powers to denote the -- whatever you would call Graviton's attack -- long before it hit earth.

Originally posted by Scoobless
yeah.... when he was channeling the entire power of Cyttorak and was completely invulnerable

Was this eighth day juggernaut, the same one who got his armor clawed up by that other exemplar?

Originally posted by Scoobless
Thor's hammer strikes and blasts are at least as strong as any other 100 class character...... especially when he's pissed off or using Godforce.....(stupid name by the way...... isn't everything a "God" does "Godforce"?)

There's no debating Thor is strong, but he doesn't operate at the same speeds as Majestic. In the time it would take Thor to land two of his best hammer blows against Graviton's shield, Majestic could land dozens of blows of similar strength. (Lol, maybe Godforce is like Godly Chi or something like that, who knows?)

Originally posted by Scoobless
i keep forgetting things that Graviton has done in the past....... he can increase the density of his own body to the point where a laser beam would affect him as much as a day on the beach but without the skin cancer part (if it could pass through his shield..... i'm still not fully convinced as gravity does affect light) ........ had i recalled this earlier i would definitely have mentioned it..... so he enters the battle very dense (and i don't mean stupid) and non-laser-killable

When Majestic had to move the Earth to a different place in the solar system, he used his laser vision to heat the planet in place of the sun. Besides, Majestic is acting at superspeed, using his laser vision form behind. Graviton wouldn't even have time to change his density before he was dead.

Originally posted by Scoobless
perhaps, perhaps not, which is why i have given them the ability to fly out the way if it looks like that may happen....... also Grav can perform multiple tasks at once..... and crushing a city would be childsplay to him in recent appearances

Graviton won't be performing any other tasks when he's getting his head burned off by Majestic. And once he's gone, Majestic is free to help mop up the other mini-Gravitions.

Originally posted by Scoobless
But BB will be busy (or dead) elsewhere

Busy kicking Vision or Wonderman's head in? Yes. Dead? I don't think so.

Originally posted by Scoobless
again BB will be busy elsewhere at the very least..... the scream will do as much damage to the buildings .......hurting Hawksmoor....... and to your street characters as it will to my powerful street and street guys.... it'll even "hurt" Dragon Man more than a reinforced Wonderman

BB isn't going to be held up very long fighting Vision or Wonderman, his powers are just too versatile and he is the consummate warrior. Vision is a thinker and Wonderman is a brick.

Originally posted by Scoobless
i wasn't going to bring up black holes, but as you mentioned them...... with Graviton having MUCH more control over his powers now than when he encountered the thing, he could create a mini-black hole next to everyone of your guys........ or inside them

And Black Bolt can just as quickly contain them. He didn't see that attack Graviton had been bringing back fromt he sun, he sensed it. Black holes aren't going to open instantly, and the second he senses one, Black Bolt can can contain and neutralize them.

Originally posted by Scoobless
so is Jolt and it took her a long time to pull herself back together

Jenny has been fighting and using her power for nearly a hundred years. How old was Jolt? Late twenties at BEST? Big difference in experience.

Originally posted by Scoobless
so, Grav is suped up to class 100 physical invulnerability levels, everyone can fly which makes most of them faster and there is the possibility a black hole could open inside any of your team at any time

i wonder what i'll remember about my teams powers later....... 🙂


So, Majestic is just as invulnerable, operates at superspeed, is an inventor and has access to Kherubim (the name of his race) spells, is immortal and has been fighting and killing monsters and super powered creatures since before his powers fully manifested millenia ago.

Black Bolt has fought and held his own for a time with Gladiator who was enraged over the fact that he thought the Inhumans had assassinated the Majestrix. He can counter Graviton's gravity attacks with magnetic force and has made the Hulk his b*tch on two or three seperate occasions (I don't think the Hulk has ever successfully beaten him).

there's no way Black Bolt's level of control over magnetism could counter Graviton..... i highly doubt Magneto could do it

The clawed guy in the eighth day thing had some weird exemplar power as well that allowed him to do that...

Grav doesn't have to up his density during the fight, he does it in the prep time

Grav's shield isn't a solid thing that can break i doubt anyone shy of Galactus, or maybe Odin could punch through it

BB may be experienced but WM and Vizz have practically the same brainwaves and work extremely well together... the fact that you chose the moronic Dragon Man would work against your team as WM and Vizz do a tag team on them

how could BB contain a black hole inside someone? wouldn't he end up causing just as much damage attempting it? even if he could contain them he is not nearly as quick as Grav with this type of power involved

Sparks experience isn't in question, her very nature is....... she's electricity therefore she is vulnerable (and i think Jolt's only around 16-17)

you said the spell majestic used on the sun took a week..... this fight aint lasting that long..... as soon as Maj stalls against the shield all your flesh and blood team mates get squashed, leaving sparks (who gets ripped apart) Hawksmoor...... WM can destroy the city while Grav takes on Maj and possibly DM..... but if he is still around WM and Vizz can take him down before they get to Hawksmoor

sorry i didn't do the pasting thing but i'm tired and about to go to sleep

we got two badass top guys here...... more people showed be showing interest

so i fight against quick freeze?

my team:

Martian Manhunter
Nimrod
Mr Sinister
Superboy
Quicksilver
Taskmaster
Elektra

It's a shame there isn't more interest (in voting, that is) especially with 199 views and only 2 votes...I didn't want to own up to voting yet (but I have), because it would tell who I voted for, but I tried to mention this thread on a couple of others, but no bites yet. For what it's worth I think it's a great battle

...and anyone that didn't get the memo...
Contestant 1 = Khellendros
Contestant 2 = Scoobless

...thought that might be deterring some people.

-DM

Scoobless:
Actually, from what I've seen, people here htink Magneto could do it. I beleive magnetism is considered tob e stronger than gravity. Anyways, Black Bolt doesn't have to be the supreme controller of magnetism, he only has to be able to contain and neutralize the black holes, which he has shown he can do.

True. So, Exemplars>God force, then?

Upping his density before the fight still won't make a difference. Majestic has more than enough power needed to kill him with his laser vision.

I basically chose Dragon Man as Grade AAA cannon fodder. He's tough, insanely strong and breathes fire. I've got more than enough brains in all my other team memebers to make up for it. He's a big angry cruise missile, you point him at something and tell him to hit it until it breaks. With DM harrying one of them for a short time, Blakc Bolt is more than capable of picking off Vision and Wonderman one at a time.

How? Well, in the other comic he created a magnetic field that neutralized them. I don't see why a magnetic field would do anywhere near as much damage as, say, an unopposed black hole.And, how do you know how quick BB is? A simple magnetic field seems a lot easier and faster to create than a superdense ball of gravity. Especially if Black Bolt senses it happening.

Maybe she is. But vulnerable doesn't guarantee he can disperse her. For all you know, whatever it is that hold her energy for together could be able to overpower Graviton's trying to pull her apart.

Yes, the spell to tear the SUN in half took a week. I don't know much about sun splitting spells, but is seems like he made good time to me. >_> Even if the field does stop Majestic, he can recover and try another avenue of attack before Graviton even realizes something hit his shield. I agree, though, about wishing more people would vote or post in here. We seem to be doing the Unstoppable force versus Immovable object thing here.

Norrin: I'm not sure, but I think your fight with Quick Freeze is gonna happen in another thread, since Scarlet can't add you to the poll. I am definitely looking forward tot aht fight, though. I do wonder whow ould win in a fight between MM and Supes.

DigiMark: Thanks. I agree, it's kinda funny that so many people are looking in but no one is voting either way. Oh well, maybe they think we're too evenly matched to decide?

ok, i PM'd Paola and got her to change the names in the vote field

Originally posted by Khellendros
Scoobless:
Actually, from what I've seen, people here htink Magneto could do it. I beleive magnetism is considered tob e stronger than gravity. Anyways, Black Bolt doesn't have to be the supreme controller of magnetism, he only has to be able to contain and neutralize the black holes, which he has shown he can do.

i don't think Magneto is stronger than Graviton (if he was i might have picked him) Magneto wouldn't be able to move if Graviton didn't let him

Magnetism stronger than gravity?.....i can't answer that.... i do believe that everything reacts to gravity (if, in some cases, only subtly) and not everything reacts to magnetism, thereby making gravitational powers more universally useful...... i've never heard of a magnetic phenomenon that has the same "power" as a black hole....... at least i don't think i have

he may be able to neutralize a black hole but can he do multiple ones? can he do anything if it appears inside someone?

any decent increase of gravity focused inside a person will collapse their body..... even if it isn't a black hole

Originally posted by Khellendros
True. So, Exemplars>God force, then?

all i know is Thor couldn't hurt him but the little exemplar could....... i can't explain it..... must have been a part of his power

Originally posted by Khellendros
Upping his density before the fight still won't make a difference. Majestic has more than enough power needed to kill him with his laser vision.

it will make a difference, density matters a lot when attempting to burn things....... small example.......focus sunlight through a magnifying glass and you can burn paper relatively easily, try it on a much denser substance ie. iron and it will have no effect (well maybe some, but nothing worth mentioning) Graviton's density increase is like that, he can increase his density to a factor that any laser will have as much effect as shining a torch on his skin

Originally posted by Khellendros
I basically chose Dragon Man as Grade AAA cannon fodder. He's tough, insanely strong and breathes fire. I've got more than enough brains in all my other team memebers to make up for it. He's a big angry cruise missile, you point him at something and tell him to hit it until it breaks. With DM harrying one of them for a short time, Blakc Bolt is more than capable of picking off Vision and Wonderman one at a time.

Wonderman has taken on the entire Avengers before, as has Vision neither of them are lightweights and either would be at LEAST a match for Black Bolt....... i don't think BB can put WM down with any of his attacks and WM has far superior strength, speed and invulnerability.
Vision is way to smart to slug it out with Dragon Man, but he would find a way to beat him (maybe try the phased hand through the brain trick) or set him up for a switch over with a team mate

Originally posted by Khellendros
Maybe she is. But vulnerable doesn't guarantee he can disperse her. For all you know, whatever it is that hold her energy for together could be able to overpower Graviton's trying to pull her apart.

if she's living electricity then she has to use the planets magnetic wavelengths to travel...... otherwise she would have no control over her movement

Originally posted by Khellendros
Yes, the spell to tear the SUN in half took a week. I don't know much about sun splitting spells, but is seems like he made good time to me. >_> Even if the field does stop Majestic, he can recover and try another avenue of attack before Graviton even realizes something hit his shield.

i doubt he'd take time to cook up a spell in the middle of a fight like this anyway..... any delay and he's fu*ked

Graviton can "feel" everything on the planet and has travelled at near light speed, i'm sure he'd be aware of impacts on his shield as soon as they happened

I don't think brute strength is getting through Grav's field and his molecular density increase means a laser attack is nothing more than a day on the beach..... Maj, or anyone for that matter, will have to rely on more than sheer power to beat Grav..... he has lost before but only because of A) losing control over his own powers (which he has overcome) and B) letting his arrogance over rule his common sense...... he has learned from these lessons and wont be making the same mistakes again

with casual use of his power he held almost the entirety of earth's heroes helpless in the air along with all the major cities...... with almost all his power focused on Majestic there's no way Majestic could resist being crushed...... speed doesn't even come into it, it isn't a case of aim or line of sight, Grav only has to know what he wants stopped and it stops...... all this power focused on killing any one single man (short of skyfather) and he is going to be a dead man..... dead and small, be able to fit into puck's pocket, small

😈

i just realised i never posted my team.....lol........ for anyone who doesn't know yet it's

Graviton
Wonderman + Vision
Carnage + Puma
Scourge + Hawkeye

although, if you didn't know, you should have........ go read the arguments posted so far!

Originally posted by Scoobless
i don't think Magneto is stronger than Graviton (if he was i might have picked him) Magneto wouldn't be able to move if Graviton didn't let him

Yeah, it has something to do with the four fundamental forces of the universe (electromagnetism, gravity, strong and weak nuclear force) and the fact taht electromagnetism is simply more potent than gravity, but gravity is the more "important" force because electromagnetism only works between positive and negative charges. So... yeah. All things being equal, Magneto would be the stronger of the two.

Originally posted by Scoobless
i've never heard of a magnetic phenomenon that has the same "power" as a black hole....... at least i don't think i have

Yes, but I've also never heard of a group of fist-sized black holes being thrown at an orange rock skinned adventurer. Just because you haven't heard of something doesn't mean it can't happen in comics.

Originally posted by Scoobless
he may be able to neutralize a black hole but can he do multiple ones? can he do anything if it appears inside someone?

Yep, Gravion was throwing fourteen small black holes at Thing, and Black Bolt caught them all. I don't see why he couldn't contain them inside someone. If Graviton can manipulate gravity inside someone then Black Bolt can manipulate electromagnetic fields.

Originally posted by Scoobless
any decent increase of gravity focused inside a person will collapse their body..... even if it isn't a black hole

This is all a moot point since Majestic would be burning two holes into the back of Graviton's superdense head before he even knew his opponent was moving.

Originally posted by Scoobless
all i know is Thor couldn't hurt him but the little exemplar could....... i can't explain it..... must have been a part of his power

Still, it does make thor's godforce sound a bit less impressive when a true God couldn't do what the avatar of another god could.

Originally posted by Scoobless
it will make a difference, density matters a lot when attempting to burn things....... small example.......focus sunlight through a magnifying glass and you can burn paper relatively easily, try it on a much denser substance ie. iron and it will have no effect (well maybe some, but nothing worth mentioning) Graviton's density increase is like that, he can increase his density to a factor that any laser will have as much effect as shining a torch on his skin

True. And, if this was just magnified sunlight, Majestic would be pretty ineffective. But, Majestic's laser vision is on a whole other level. With a strong enough laser cutter, you can cut diamond. With a wide angled beam of his laser vision, Majestic replaced the sun. Can you even imagine what that kind of power focused into the space of a pencil width would do?

Originally posted by Scoobless
Wonderman has taken on the entire Avengers before, as has Vision neither of them are lightweights and either would be at LEAST a match for Black Bolt....... i don't think BB can put WM down with any of his attacks and WM has far superior strength, speed and invulnerability. Vision is way to smart to slug it out with Dragon Man, but he would find a way to beat him (maybe try the phased hand through the brain trick) or set him up for a switch over with a team mate

Wonderman can still feel pain. Black Bolt owned an immortal who could fly unprotected through space with his electron blasts. BB was damn near torturing the guy. Wonderman goes down fast. And Vision has no choice but to at least dodge a Dragon Man flying at him, bent on beating him into spare parts.

Originally posted by Scoobless
if she's living electricity then she has to use the planets magnetic wavelengths to travel...... otherwise she would have no control over her movement

Wrong. During her run in the Authority, she lived and operated on a ship that was docked in the space between alternate universes. She used her full powers to kill an alien that blocked out the sun. She has shown no dependence on the Earth's magnetic field one way or the other.

Originally posted by Scoobless
i doubt he'd take time to cook up a spell in the middle of a fight like this anyway..... any delay and he's fu*ked

Yes, but in three hours of prep time he could cast a spel on his group to protect them from harmful gravitic effects. Hell, he invented and built the gauntlets he used on the black hole from scratch at superspeed. He could spend an hour of the prep time designing machines to shield his team from harmful internal and external gavitational effects and build them in the first second of the fight. That's a tactic that has been used successfully against Graviton in the past, using technology derived from Machine Man's flight capabilities.

Originally posted by Scoobless
Graviton can "feel" everything on the planet and has travelled at near light speed, i'm sure he'd be aware of impacts on his shield as soon as they happened

Yes, but travelling in a straight line at near light speed and having a fist fight at near light speed are two different things. In the time it would take to register the impacts and react to them, Majestic could be behind him and blasting away with laser vision.

Originally posted by Scoobless
I don't think brute strength is getting through Grav's field and his molecular density increase means a laser attack is nothing more than a day on the beach..... Maj, or anyone for that matter, will have to rely on more than sheer power to beat Grav..... he has lost before but only because of A) losing control over his own powers (which he has overcome) and B) letting his arrogance over rule his common sense...... he has learned from these lessons and wont be making the same mistakes again

Well, just look at how often Hulk has battered through various non matter fields. He's punched through a time storm, muscled his way through an energy field that was strong enough to change the orbit of a planet, and knocked down countless forcefields. All feats of sheer brute strength. Graviton can't become too dense, or I think he'd have troubles even functioning. Still, laser vision that can heat a planet > any level of density Graviton can achieve. Graviton doesn't have to make any mistakes in this fight. He is simply fighting an opponent who acts dozens of times faster than he can think, and that's nothing anyone can improve on.

Originally posted by Scoobless
with casual use of his power he held almost the entirety of earth's heroes helpless in the air along with all the major cities...... with almost all his power focused on Majestic there's no way Majestic could resist being crushed...... speed doesn't even come into it, it isn't a case of aim or line of sight, Grav only has to know what he wants stopped and it stops...... all this power focused on killing any one single man (short of skyfather) and he is going to be a dead man..... dead and small, be able to fit into puck's pocket, small

This is where we disagree. Graviton has only ever shown the ability to generate small black holes. Majestic has flown into a massive one without trouble. And, speed does come into it. Majestic can be attacking before Graviton has even realized the fight as started.

Majestic has already shown the ability to create devices that can interact with gravitational fields from scratch. Between mangnetic fields generated by Black Bolt and Majestic's inventions, Graviton's power can be rendered completely useless as an offensive weapon.

Are we allowed to vote yet?

Originally posted by Khellendros
Yep, Gravion was throwing fourteen small black holes at Thing, and Black Bolt caught them all. I don't see why he couldn't contain them inside someone. If Graviton can manipulate gravity inside someone then Black Bolt can manipulate electromagnetic fields.

Graviton is much faster, more powerful and versatile with his powers now than he ever was before..... Black Bolt is an insect to him

Originally posted by Khellendros
This is all a moot point since Majestic would be burning two holes into the back of Graviton's superdense head before he even knew his opponent was moving.

that's something i guess we'll have to agree to disagree on

Originally posted by Khellendros
Still, it does make thor's godforce sound a bit less impressive when a true God couldn't do what the avatar of another god could.

that entire story was written for the purpose of bringing juggy to the "good guys" side.....his Godforce blast killed Mangog.... who is stronger than Majestic

Originally posted by Khellendros
True. And, if this was just magnified sunlight, Majestic would be pretty ineffective. But, Majestic's laser vision is on a whole other level. With a strong enough laser cutter, you can cut diamond. With a wide angled beam of his laser vision, Majestic replaced the sun. Can you even imagine what that kind of power focused into the space of a pencil width would do?

heat a pencil?...........lol

diamonds may be "hard" but they aren't strong or resilient..... you can cut diamond with steel or break one with a hammer...... glass is "hard".........

Originally posted by Khellendros
Wonderman can still feel pain. Black Bolt owned an immortal who could fly unprotected through space with his electron blasts. BB was damn near torturing the guy. Wonderman goes down fast. And Vision has no choice but to at least dodge a Dragon Man flying at him, bent on beating him into spare parts.

"immortal who could fly unprotected through space " you list this as , i assume, an impressive description of a character...... Wonderman fits that description too, but has Avengers training for fighting and team work.... WM will know all about BB before this fight and he'll know what he could expect..... with the additional shielding from Grav that he can use as he pleases he's too much for BB who is only class 60 when maxing his powers.... if he isn't focusing his power into strength one hit will kill him and Wondy is easily good enough to manage that

Originally posted by Khellendros
Wrong. During her run in the Authority, she lived and operated on a ship that was docked in the space between alternate universes. She used her full powers to kill an alien that blocked out the sun. She has shown no dependence on the Earth's magnetic field one way or the other.

and Jolt has operated on alien planets...... she may not regularly depend on earths magnetic field but she does need A field..... when on earth she would use earths field

Originally posted by Khellendros
He could spend an hour of the prep time designing machines to shield his team from harmful internal and external gavitational effects and build them in the first second of the fight. That's a tactic that has been used successfully against Graviton in the past, using technology derived from Machine Man's flight capabilities.

that isn't possible..... the teams aren't allowed to bring extra materials into the fight......as far as i'm aware, the machine man tech only hid jolt from Grav for a while.... didn't stop his overall effect

Originally posted by Khellendros
Yes, but travelling in a straight line at near light speed and having a fist fight at near light speed are two different things. In the time it would take to register the impacts and react to them, Majestic could be behind him and blasting away with laser vision.

laser vision that would be ineffective.....

Originally posted by Khellendros
Well, just look at how often Hulk has battered through various non matter fields. He's punched through a time storm, muscled his way through an energy field that was strong enough to change the orbit of a planet, and knocked down countless forcefields. All feats of sheer brute strength. Graviton can't become too dense, or I think he'd have troubles even functioning.

the first point is irrelevant as almost all shields in the MU are different in some way........ plus the Hulk was one of the guys Grav held helpless in Thunderbolts issue 57 (got it here.... had to go check)....... also pictured are Thor, Wonderman, Iron Man, Captain Marvel, Quasar, Jean Grey (and all the X-Men) the FF, Scarlet Witch, Ghost Rider, Nova, Doop (what the hell is Doop anyway?)Namor.....etc etc........ you think a guy who can hold all these at bay can't stop one Superman knock off?

functioning while dense.....(trying not to make a bad U.S. presidential joke)..... i don't see why he'd have a problem as he has done it before and he is much more powerful now..... even if he did he could stop affecting his internal and only increase the skin density....... or his clothes...... no reason he can't flip his cape over his head if it started to burn...... but it wont as heat isn't a problem for him..... he hovered right next to the sun on purpose and was completely unharmed

Originally posted by Khellendros
This is where we disagree. Graviton has only ever shown the ability to generate small black holes. Majestic has flown into a massive one without trouble. And, speed does come into it. Majestic can be attacking before Graviton has even realized the fight as started.

against a field like this speed doesn't matter, 1 punch or a million would have about the same affect...... the field can't be broken by physical means..... all physical matter will be repulsed

Originally posted by pr1983
Are we allowed to vote yet?

others have.... i don't think there is a set point where voting begins

Team Scoob

Originally posted by Scoobless
Graviton is much faster, more powerful and versatile with his powers now than he ever was before..... Black Bolt is an insect to him

An insect who can counteract his powers, create antimatter bombs to take out the rest of his team, and a whisper that packs a class 80 punch.

Originally posted by Scoobless
that's something i guess we'll have to agree to disagree on

Yep, it's up to the voters to decide if a man who can keep the entire planet warm can kill one super dense man.

Originally posted by Scoobless
that entire story was written for the purpose of bringing juggy to the "good guys" side.....his Godforce blast killed Mangog.... who is stronger than Majestic

It doesn't matter why it was written, it's canon now. Mangog is stronger than Majestic? You just said Thor killed him, and no way is Thor stronger than Majestic.

Originally posted by Scoobless
heat a pencil?...........lol

No, more like lobotomize your character.

Originally posted by Scoobless
diamonds may be "hard" but they aren't strong or resilient..... you can cut diamond with steel or break one with a hammer...... glass is "hard".........

But hardness is what you get with ultra dense materials as well. No matter how hard or dense something is, it can only delay the inevitable by a few moments when exposed to lasers that approximate the heat of a sun.

Originally posted by Scoobless
"immortal who could fly unprotected through space " you list this as , i assume, an impressive description of a character...... Wonderman fits that description too, but has Avengers training for fighting and team work.... WM will know all about BB before this fight and he'll know what he could expect..... with the additional shielding from Grav that he can use as he pleases he's too much for BB who is only class 60 when maxing his powers.... if he isn't focusing his power into strength one hit will kill him and Wondy is easily good enough to manage that

If Wonderman knows all about Black Bolt, then he knows he is screwed. Black Bolt is only class 60, but he has taken shots from the Hulk without going down. Black Bolt can take heavy punches from bricks like Hulk and Gladiator, but can go toe to toe with and even defeat skilled warriors like Ronan the Accuser and stalemate Adam Warlock. Electron blasts are all it takes and Wonderman is down.

Originally posted by Scoobless
and Jolt has operated on alien planets...... she may not regularly depend on earths magnetic field but she does need A field..... when on earth she would use earths field

Well, it's a good thing Jenny isn't Jolt. Jenny does NOT need a magnetic field to operate.

Originally posted by Scoobless
that isn't possible..... the teams aren't allowed to bring extra materials into the fight......as far as i'm aware, the machine man tech only hid jolt from Grav for a while.... didn't stop his overall effect

Everything I've ready says it kept his power from effecting her. And who said bringing in extra materials? He could scratch the design into any solid surface with one invulnerable finger nail. And since they would be fighting in a city or uban area, he could simply retrieve the parts from surrounding buildings.

Originally posted by Scoobless
laser vision that would be ineffective.....

Not at full strength. And Majestic does not hold back.

Originally posted by Scoobless
the first point is irrelevant as almost all shields in the MU are different in some way........ plus the Hulk was one of the guys Grav held helpless in Thunderbolts issue 57 (got it here.... had to go check)

It's not irrelevant, because it shows that brute strength can effect energy shields in the MU. Holding the Hulk helpless? He can't fly. All he had to do was keep him from touching anything solid.

Originally posted by Scoobless
....... also pictured are Thor, Wonderman, Iron Man, Captain Marvel, Quasar, Jean Grey (and all the X-Men) the FF, Scarlet Witch, Ghost Rider, Nova, Doop (what the hell is Doop anyway?)Namor.....etc etc........ you think a guy who can hold all these at bay can't stop one Superman knock off?

Well, considering he was BEATEN by the Thunderbolts, no, I don't think he can stop this particular "Superman knock off". He was also stalemated by the Thing and Black Bolt when his powers went apesh*t and turned him into a sentient pocket universe!

Originally posted by Scoobless
functioning while dense.....(trying not to make a bad U.S. presidential joke)..... i don't see why he'd have a problem as he has done it before and he is much more powerful now.....

Actually, it is a problem. I just read the comic in which he was made as dense as a white dwarf. Guess how he was beaten? The electron field he was using to maintain a relatively human form got disrupted, causing him to collapse in on himself. If Graviton goes superdense, he is screwed, because Black Bolt can simply do the same thing. Disrupt the field that he's using to hold himself together, and he collapses once again.

Originally posted by Scoobless
against a field like this speed doesn't matter, 1 punch or a million would have about the same affect...... the field can't be broken by physical means..... all physical matter will be repulsed

If the field effects matter, matter can effect the field. It's similar to pulling two magnets with opposite charges apart. The magnetic field does resist, but with sufficient strength it can be overpowered. The same is true with Graviton's shield.

Graviton gets defeated cause the writers creates situations where he "outsmart" himself.Let me explain.He gives his enemies the chance of beating him.Like in his last battle.He block all the heroes on Earth, he was going to change the shape of the continents(and if it isn't a great feat of power, tell me what).The T-Bolts hurted him cause he let them do it.He defeate himself.He was too much overloaded of his "credo" of being a God, to turn his attention to mere mortals.
If Marvel Writers write Graviton in a smart way, considering he's also a scientist, and a good scientist, not the last of the idiots, he'll wipe out anything on his path and he probably be the ruler of Earth.
His senses exceed human rank, cause he can sense anything around himself.He can even hit a woman with a small stone in Australia while he was in the U.S.A.
Mr. Majestic can held by Graviton and then reduced to a chunk of blood and flesh, cause there's no limit to the force the old G can create.He was able to hold down Thor, Hulk and other strong guys.His force fields have blocked attacks that exceed Majestic's laser vision.GodForce Blast is one of those attacks.
Graviton has blocked attacks of some fast heroes like Jolt, Thor, and others.
Thor isn't fast as majestic?
There only slightly, rarely occasions in which Thor is showed clearly using superspeed, but he possess it.He's in the lightning speed rank.
Majestic landing blows while Thor land one or two blows?
If he can hit Superman he can hit Majestic.
Anyway, as I was assuming before, a well written Graviton, is near unbeatable.Only telepathic attacks would work on him, or Cosmic Power.

Originally posted by K3VIL
Graviton gets defeated cause the writers creates situations where he "outsmart" himself.Let me explain.He gives his enemies the chance of beating him.Like in his last battle.He block all the heroes on Earth, he was going to change the shape of the continents(and if it isn't a great feat of power, tell me what).The T-Bolts hurted him cause he let them do it.He defeate himself.He was too much overloaded of his "credo" of being a God, to turn his attention to mere mortals.
If Marvel Writers write Graviton in a smart way, considering he's also a scientist, and a good scientist, not the last of the idiots, he'll wipe out anything on his path and he probably be the ruler of Earth.
His senses exceed human rank, cause he can sense anything around himself.He can even hit a woman with a small stone in Australia while he was in the U.S.A.
Mr. Majestic can held by Graviton and then reduced to a chunk of blood and flesh, cause there's no limit to the force the old G can create.He was able to hold down Thor, Hulk and other strong guys.His force fields have blocked attacks that exceed Majestic's laser vision.GodForce Blast is one of those attacks.
Graviton has blocked attacks of some fast heroes like Jolt, Thor, and others.
Thor isn't fast as majestic?
There only slightly, rarely occasions in which Thor is showed clearly using superspeed, but he possess it.He's in the lightning speed rank.
Majestic landing blows while Thor land one or two blows?
If he can hit Superman he can hit Majestic.
Anyway, as I was assuming before, a well written Graviton, is near unbeatable.Only telepathic attacks would work on him, or Cosmic Power.

errrr...good commentary. Really.

...but it's Khell vs. Scoob.

-DM

people are free to post in these ............i think....... plenty of people posted in my last 2 battles....... and i posted in other peoples