Originally posted by Lightsnake
Vaapad creates a superconducting loop that literally repels the Dark Side since....ever.
Would this not only apply to lightning, Lightsnake, since it's a super conductive loop? I may be wrong, me and Physics aren't exactly the best of friends, I'm only going by what I got off [ulr = the dictionary]dictionary.com[/url].
When Mace immerses himself in Vaapad, he can utilize the strength of his dark side opponents into a weapon that he himself can use. Literally, it means that he can create a loop between himself and his opponent and he can redirect dark side energies back to the source. In RotS, it was Sidious. Now, it's Malak. Lightning will definately not work. But by the description of the attack itself, it is likely that most dark side based attacks (unless they are massive, like a Force Storm) can be redirected by Windu.
We've had this trouble before; you're not Lucas. Interpretations of character motives are very fine, and you can make them. But don't expect them to float above the water - you're lacking sufficient evidence. Palpatine did bombard Mace with lightning - but Vaapad's properties allowed Mace (albeit with great difficulty) to force the lightning back on Palpatine because it is a "superconductive loop".He faked weakness after he stopped the lightning assault, and that is where sufficient evidence seems to direct the thought that "he wanted to seduce Anakin". It was quite clear via the movie and through the commentary that, initially, Sidious wanted to kill Mace himself.
After Mace kicks Palpatine in the chest and had him cornered, Anakin runs into the Chancellor’s office. Palpatine says, “I told you Anakin, I was right. The Jedi are taking over.” Then Palpatine unleashes a torrent of Lightning at Mace {by the movie, the intensity of the Lightning appeared less between the two times Sidious performed the Force Lightning}.
Mace uses his lightsaber and the superconducting loop of Vapaad to counter this, although it nearly overwhelms him. Palpatine, during this Lightning lock, says to Anakin “I have the power to save the one you love” while making his voice even weaker and having Windu finally overcome the onslaught and putting him in bladepoint again.
This is why it seems more than likely that Palpatine was trying to seduce Anakin and make Windu look evil. Otherwise, had Sidious killed Windu, then the circumstances which Skywalker could be turned may have been gone. Of course, I believe a source said that Lucas himself said that Sidious wasn’t trying with the first Lightning attack, but was trying during the lightsaber duel. I’ll see if I can find a quote.
Nevertheless, the theory itself seems probable if you take all of the events into consideration. That is why this issue is heavily debated across different Star Wars forums across the Internet.
When Mace "gets into" Vaapad, it has not been extrapolated that it has a "limit". It's quite possible that it doesn't when he gets into it. I'm not saying that he's invincible, as Mace seems to take several seconds to relieve himself of Jedi restraint and become fully immersed in it, hence why Sidious was able to kill his colleagues and force Mace back into the main office before he was able to prove his ability. But when that happens, combined with Shatterpoint, Vaapad may not have a limit at all.
Aye, but the potential of that Vapaad should depend on the user, correct? For example, with his Shatterpoint and Vapaad, Mace becomes deadly, but even against a Dark Side user as strong as Palpatine, the usage of the two powers by Windu only equates to a certain amount of power. Vapaad's power is limitless, but when used by a candidate of it, it only goes so far. I mean, this is why Mace < Sidious. Do you get what I am saying?
The danger that he was in was not because of Vaapad. It was that he was engaging in combat against a stronger Force user - who was able (with time and effort) to push his lightsaber back against his face. He was in danger of being cut with his own saber, not from Sidious "overpowering" Vaapad.Sidious was not “overpowering” Vapaad, but Mace’s Vapaad defensive was nearly insufficient enough to block Sidious’s Lightning.
Vaapad makes use of "dark side" energies. I'm not saying he's the most powerful Jedi ever, as it is likely that Vaapad's unique properties wouldn't work against someone like Yoda (who isn't a dark side user), or Luke, and they are both more powerful than he is.
He wouldn't likely be able to stop a Force Storm due to the sheer size of it (able to engulf fleets without a problem), and it isn't energy based. It's generated from an extremely powerful Force user coupled with sheer hatred. But anything else? It's possible that, when Mace is in full Vaapad mode, he is able to repel the vast majority of dark side-based energies.
The magnitude of the Dark Side attacks as well as the strength of the DS user plays a factor against a user of Vapaad. For example, Mace’s Vapaad shouldn’t be able create a superconducting loop powerful enough to block the Lightning ROTS Sidious bombareded on Windu that sent him flying across Coruscant. Or a Force Storm or Nihilus’s Force Drain?
Originally posted by General Kenobl
After Mace kicks Palpatine in the chest and had him cornered, Anakin runs into the Chancellor’s office. Palpatine says, “I told you Anakin, I was right. The Jedi are taking over.” Then Palpatine unleashes a torrent of Lightning at Mace {by the movie, the intensity of the Lightning appeared less between the two times Sidious performed the Force Lightning}.Mace uses his lightsaber and the superconducting loop of Vapaad to counter this, although it nearly overwhelms him. Palpatine, during this Lightning lock, says to Anakin “I have the power to save the one you love” while making his voice even weaker and having Windu finally overcome the onslaught and putting him in bladepoint again.
This is why it seems more than likely that Palpatine was trying to seduce Anakin and make Windu look evil. Otherwise, had Sidious killed Windu, then the circumstances which Skywalker could be turned may have been gone. Of course, I believe a source said that Lucas himself said that Sidious wasn’t trying with the first Lightning attack, but was trying during the lightsaber duel. I’ll see if I can find a quote.
Nevertheless, the theory itself seems probable if you take all of the events into consideration. That is why this issue is heavily debated across different Star Wars forums across the Internet.
Aye, but the potential of that Vapaad should depend on the user, correct? For example, with his Shatterpoint and Vapaad, Mace becomes deadly, but even against a Dark Side user as strong as Palpatine, the usage of the two powers by Windu only equates to a certain amount of power. Vapaad's power is limitless, but when used by a candidate of it, it only goes so far. I mean, this is why Mace < Sidious. Do you get what I am saying?
The magnitude of the Dark Side attacks as well as the strength of the DS user plays a factor against a user of Vapaad. For example, Mace’s Vapaad shouldn’t be able create a superconducting loop powerful enough to block the Lightning ROTS Sidious bombareded on Windu that sent him flying across Coruscant. Or a Force Storm or Nihilus’s Force Drain?
Good post except for the fact that Sidious was faking only after his initial force lightning attempt failed. He was overpowered before.
Good post except for the fact that Sidious was faking only after his initial force lightning attempt failed. He was overpowered before.
Palpatine was outclassed by Windu in lightsaber combat. When Mace held him at saberpoint, I was under the impression Sidious gave a weakened state of Lightning to whilst attempting to kill Mace {though it wasn't going to work}, moreso because he wanted to seduce Skywalker. The second Lightning barrage shows Sidious frying Windu with all he got, and that sent Mace flying miles into Coruscant.
No, Mace's Vaapad allowed him to deflect the blast right back at him. Only after he stopped the blast did he start faking.
Yes, because Palpatine didn't unleash all of his energy at Windu. He fired a blast at Windu but in the middle of the Lightning Lock, he starts to show Anakin how weak he is and how he needs his help so that he can save his wife.
Lucas even says on the commentary he's exagerrating his weakness at that point
Wouldn't that show he was not going all out with the Lightning blast, but instead enough to get Anakin to help him. The exaggeration of the weakness shows in Palpatine's first lighter Lightning strike and his word choice during the Lightning Lock. It seems likely that Palpatine may have been trying to kill Windu, but more likely that he was seducing Skywalker.
Planet - the super conductive loop means, basically, he uses himself (through Vaapad) as the loop itself. It allows the darkside to enter him and then immediately leave him as a weapon, as to not affect him, allow him to enjoy the fight and use their power against him. Don't take it literally as in he can redirect lightning back at the person...that one happened due to the close proximity and it attracting itself back to the closest living thing (palpatine himself). It's kinda like Akido, you use the other person's momentum against them, only in this case, it's the darkside power, rather than just kinetic energy. So its not really Vaapad itself thats the loop, Vaapad allows Mace (or the user in general) to be the loop. Also it allows mace to fight for a long time, as it doesn't use his energy since it's constantly bringing in and sending out energy.
Did that help at all, lol?