Originally posted by Scoobless
if Sue can get a shield up before Flash reaches her then i'll go with the FF team
There's no way Sue can get a shield up in time. I believe she thinks as fast as normal person. If she does think faster than a normal person, she still wouldn't be able to think fast enough to make a difference.
Um the last time Doom and Reed worked together they took on a Celestial. Doom and Reed leading the rest of the FF and the Hulk r pretty unstoppable. Saying the Flash is going to make people explode and overpower the whole Marvel team at once is ridiculous. Here's my take...Doom knowing what Flash and MM r capable of uses sorcery to immediately negate and protect the team from Flash...Then Reed and Doom engineer a bio-weapon against MM that eliminates his shapeshifter cohesion, eliminating most of his versatility. The FF r also regularly protected by psionics...just look at the time they played around with X-Man...in addition to the fact that IW can protect the whole team from telepathy as well. Doom's mind is so determined that Prof X couldnt enter his mind...no reason to believe MM would do any better. Hulk has also demonstrated resistance to telepathy. Now IW makes the retinas of both MM and flash invisible...uh-oh, now their blind and worthless...Thing and Hulk easily murder the Flash...the Human Torch roasts MM with nova flame and he dies too.
-the end
Is it just me or is nobody gettin the fact that they dont get prep time??????!! they get like 2 second prep time....does that sound ok? i mean its like this....here Mr. Doom here is a list of the flashes powers...then boom....fight!! and i already stated how intellectually The flash and MM could win...through the speed of his mind, not the actual knowledge....
The flash is pretty smart actually... he's figured out things in the absence of Batman before, and MM is a tactical genius.
All in all, this is a good match up. Would the Human Torch render MM powerless though since he is surrounded in flame or could MM telepathically turn off all their powers... (like he did with the rest of the white martians on earth?)
That I believe is what would determine the outcome of this fight.
*Side Note* Flashes Mass punch is real. He used it against a martian posing as a super speedster in the JLA series.
Originally posted by Wynndar
If they know there is going to be a fight, Sue protects the team with a field before the fight begins...saying Flash would go into the fight with that strategy would be as likely as Sue putting Flash and MM in aforcefield before they even enter the fight scene, and launch them into the Sun.
If I remember correctly, Martians can become intangible and invisible as well? That would render the field useless.
Originally posted by Wynndar
Um the last time Doom and Reed worked together they took on a Celestial. Doom and Reed leading the rest of the FF and the Hulk r pretty unstoppable. Saying the Flash is going to make people explode and overpower the whole Marvel team at once is ridiculous. Here's my take...Doom knowing what Flash and MM r capable of uses sorcery to immediately negate and protect the team from Flash...Then Reed and Doom engineer a bio-weapon against MM that eliminates his shapeshifter cohesion, eliminating most of his versatility. The FF r also regularly protected by psionics...just look at the time they played around with X-Man...in addition to the fact that IW can protect the whole team from telepathy as well. Doom's mind is so determined that Prof X couldnt enter his mind...no reason to believe MM would do any better. Hulk has also demonstrated resistance to telepathy. Now IW makes the retinas of both MM and flash invisible...uh-oh, now their blind and worthless...Thing and Hulk easily murder the Flash...the Human Torch roasts MM with nova flame and he dies too.-the end
Both Flash and MM can make it to Doom before he gets a chance to...
1. use sorcery to conjure up something to negate Flash.
2. have Reed help him engineer a bio-weapon.
3. go into a kitchen and whip up some scrambled eggs.
Originally posted by Wynndar
If they know there is going to be a fight, Sue protects the team with a field before the fight begins...saying Flash would go into the fight with that strategy would be as likely as Sue putting Flash and MM in aforcefield before they even enter the fight scene, and launch them into the Sun.
Sue can't protect the team before the fight begins. Both teams start the fight at the same time.
Flash cant get to them if they know his powers...and saying Flash would blitz the whole team is like saying IW would place an invisible bubble in his brain...they dont need prep time to beat two morons like Flash and MM...in the Rising Storm story arc...Richards improvised a device in moments that switched Sue and Johnny's powers...he didnt build the device at the baxter building, but on the turff of their present opponents. He was using someone else's tech...and oh, that tech was also invisible, he had to firgure out what it was by using his body to displace all the air in the room...with Doom's help....they are easily smart enough to trash Flash and MM...like i said, last time they teamed up they took on a celestial.
Originally posted by MatchesMalone
There's no way Sue can get a shield up in time. I believe she thinks as fast as normal person. If she does think faster than a normal person, she still wouldn't be able to think fast enough to make a difference.
depends on how the fight starts.... if she gets any time at all she'll have a field up...... evein if they start at the same time it's a matter of Flash reaching her before she can think...... it'd be close..... (if he even goes after her first)
Originally posted by Wynndar
Flash cant get to them if they know his powers...and saying Flash would blitz the whole team is like saying IW would place an invisible bubble in his brain...they dont need prep time to beat two morons like Flash and MM
Haha. Sure they are.
Manhunter is a genius (albeit probably not on par with Doom or Reed) and Flash aint too shabby himself. They're smart enough at least to know how to fight.
Let's assume that since Flash is, well, the Flash, he speed blitzes this team. That means that the FF team has, oh I'll be generous, one second to react. Do you really think Doom or anyone else for that matter could pull off ANYTHING, let alone some advanced sorcery to protect everyone?
Flash speed blitzes because that's what he does. IW does not put bubbles in people's brains like it's her only power. They are not the same thing at all.
If Sue puts up a field, I agree that neither Flash or MM are going to get through it. But I have a hard time imagining that she can react as quickly as the Flash can.
Originally posted by Wynndar
Flash cant get to them if they know his powers...and saying Flash would blitz the whole team is like saying IW would place an invisible bubble in his brain...they dont need prep time to beat two morons like Flash and MM...in the Rising Storm story arc...Richards improvised a device in moments that switched Sue and Johnny's powers...he didnt build the device at the baxter building, but on the turff of their present opponents. He was using someone else's tech...and oh, that tech was also invisible, he had to firgure out what it was by using his body to displace all the air in the room...with Doom's help....they are easily smart enough to trash Flash and MM...like i said, last time they teamed up they took on a celestial.
Flash blitzing the team is not the same as IW putting a bubble in his brain. IW thinks grossly slower than Flash moves.
Richards will not have moments to improvise a device in this fight.
Originally posted by Scoobless
depends on how the fight starts.... if she gets any time at all she'll have a field up...... evein if they start at the same time it's a matter of Flash reaching her before she can think...... it'd be close..... (if he even goes after her first)
Flash is fast enough to deliver a blow to each member of her team before she blinks. Her thought process is almost frozen in time compared to him.
Wally West is one of the Flashes that has power over the Speed Force... If he uses that... its over for the entire FF. One time the Flash hit someone while he was in the Speed Force and killed them in one punch. Martian Manhunter is able to turn invisible and has telepathic powers as well as super strength... flight... projectile beams from his eyes... invulnerable... shape shift... etc.
Flash is one of the only people that actually does speed blitz. He prob wouldnt have that easy of a time against the Hulk but he can vibrate through him.
Also you have to look at it like if this is the Professor Hulk or Savage Hulk? If its Savage then he is prob not the best team player and would not understand any type of list given to him explaining the JLA's powers. MM could just shape shift into Betty and tell Hulk that the FF hurt her (him).
These two are pretty powerful and the only way the FF Team has a chance is if HT is able to be considered as a Herald. If not then JLA wins.
I think whoever made this match seriously doesn't like DC lol!
I still reckon that the Marvel team have the upper hand here by a long way.
But never, ever discount the Flash.
He will always do something new with the speed force that u'd never thought possible.
For example - they get warned by Flash, who's travelled back from the future, that Sue is about to use a bubble to explode MM's head.
Flash now knows to destroy Sue with one High Velocity Punch before she can react.
Still leaves the Hulk to deal with....
Originally posted by Jason8200
Wally West is one of the Flashes that has power over the Speed Force... If he uses that... its over for the entire FF. One time the Flash hit someone while he was in the Speed Force and killed them in one punch. Martian Manhunter is able to turn invisible and has telepathic powers as well as super strength... flight... projectile beams from his eyes... invulnerable... shape shift... etc.Flash is one of the only people that actually does speed blitz. He prob wouldnt have that easy of a time against the Hulk but he can vibrate through him.
Also you have to look at it like if this is the Professor Hulk or Savage Hulk? If its Savage then he is prob not the best team player and would not understand any type of list given to him explaining the JLA's powers. MM could just shape shift into Betty and tell Hulk that the FF hurt her (him).
These two are pretty powerful and the only way the FF Team has a chance is if HT is able to be considered as a Herald. If not then JLA wins.
Jason8200, its not really fair to use the idea of Flash vibrating through Hulk, because Flash has been shown not to be able to vibrate through certain things. He may able to vibrate through him, but lets not use that theory just to keep things simple.
Besides, taking Flash's vibrating ability away wouldn't matter too much. Flash could knock Hulk out with a barrage of infinity punches.
As for your Hulk question, the Hulk I had in mind for the fight was savage Hulk. But, if anybody thinks Professor Hulk would make a difference, they can still tell us the different outcomes.
In my opinion Hulk and Thing could take those 2, theres no need for Doom and the rest of the FF. Ben is a very smart strategist and since both he and the Hulk have proven to be resistant against most of Onslaught's telepathy i dont see MM's being a problem. And the Flash would go down in one flick from either of these guys, and then it would just be MM vs Hulk and Thing in a brawl in which MM has absolutely no chance.