good and evil in biblical sense does not exist
people choose to be good or evil and it is all down to circumstance, experience and consequences
eg i would not murder an innocent person because i choose to respect the human right to life of that person
but if it is some criminal scum i would not hesitate in brutally killing them
others are more liberal and some are so liberal they would not even send serial killers, paedophiles and rapists to prison for life
i have spoke to people who seriously would let these people back out to walk the streets "if they are rehabilitated"
each individual chooses their moral code they live by
some choose a religion and just live by that code
there is no right and wrong and there is no good and evil
there is only choices and opinions
Originally posted by GRIMNIR
good and evil in biblical sense does not existpeople choose to be good or evil and it is all down to circumstance, experience and consequences
eg i would not murder an innocent person because i choose to respect the human right to life of that person
but if it is some criminal scum i would not hesitate in brutally killing them
others are more liberal and some are so liberal they would not even send serial killers, paedophiles and rapists to prison for life
i have spoke to people who seriously would let these people back out to walk the streets "if they are rehabilitated"
each individual chooses their moral code they live by
some choose a religion and just live by that code
there is no right and wrong and there is no good and evil
there is only choices and opinions
Sadly the more money you have, the more choices you have
No I mean Ego as seeing yourself as different. As long as there is that attachment, an individual will always commit unrighteous deeds.
Ultimately, my beliefs are that there is nothing different between you, me, and the space between us.
Ex: We see ourselves as individual droplets of water, even though we are truly one ocean.
Originally posted by Korto VosShould such an assessment ever be taken to the next level, and applied universally, I'd start fearing for individuality--both on a political scale, and a personal one.
No I mean Ego as seeing yourself as different. As long as there is that attachment, an individual will always commit unrighteous deeds.Ultimately, my beliefs are that there is nothing different between you, me, and the space between us.
Ex: We see ourselves as individual droplets of water, even though we are truly one ocean.
I feel the existence of "evil" is a necessity, one that ensures that our species will not one day become this... "ocean", or this colony or hive of non-different organisms.
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Should such an assessment ever be taken to the next level, and applied universally, I'd start fearing for individuality--both on a political scale, and a personal one.I feel the existence of "evil" is a necessity, one that ensures that our species will not one day become this... "ocean", or this colony or hive of non-different organisms.
Well, that's completely opposite to what I believe in. It's a Hindu belief, that which I speak of.
The idea is that the more and more a person believes in individuality and his/her Ego, he/she builds layers upon layers clouding himself from the truth that the atman (Soul/Self) is nothing but Brahman (the supreme, universal, ultimate, infinite, transcendental essence that's the basis for everything). The final goal is to remove these layers and realize this [the drop of water (atman) returning into the ocean (Brahman)], which will grant enlightenment.
I can explain more if you are interested, but I don't want to stray too much from this thread's topic.
Essentially, to a Hindu, this world that we perceive in is an illusion (Maya), and as long as one maintains Ego, there will always be continued suffering and unrighteousness.
Originally posted by Lord LucienHitler, Stalin, Napoleon and every tyrant that ever lived wanted a hive mind or "ocean," and I don't know what you were doing in history class......
Should such an assessment ever be taken to the next level, and applied universally, I'd start fearing for individuality--both on a political scale, and a personal one.I feel the existence of "evil" is a necessity, one that ensures that our species will not one day become this... "ocean", or this colony or hive of non-different organisms.
Originally posted by Korto VosNo, I'm not really interested. Religious and philosophical ideas about the self/universe/enlightenment etc., don't appeal to me. There's the universe, and its inhabited by doomed organisms. Nothing more.
Well, that's completely opposite to what I believe in. It's a Hindu belief, that which I speak of.The idea is that the more and more a person believes in individuality and his/her Ego, he/she builds layers upon layers clouding himself from the truth that the atman (Soul/Self) is nothing but Brahman (the supreme, universal, ultimate, infinite, transcendental essence that's the basis for everything). The final goal is to remove these layers and realize this [the drop of water (atman) returning into the ocean (Brahman)], which will grant enlightenment.
I can explain more if you are interested, but I don't want to stray too much from this thread's topic.
Essentially, to a Hindu, this world that we perceive in is an illusion (Maya), and as long as one maintains Ego, there will always be continued suffering and unrighteousness.
The non-religious/spiritual equivalent of this "Brahman" (two-headed mutant cows?) is the loss of individuality. For the species to give up "evil" deeds is to give up greed, jealousy, anger, selfishness, hate, intolerance etc. The "negative" emotions. I would rather have an eternally conflict-ridden civilization than one featuring such peace. I can't think of a worse hell than the loss of those emotions.
Originally posted by Quark_666A.) a hive-mind (not the psychological collective consciousness, mind you) is a science-fiction term/insectoid feature. I doubt the dictators were aiming for that.
Hitler, Stalin, Napoleon and every tyrant that ever lived wanted a hive mind or "ocean," and I don't know what you were doing in history class......
B.) No matter their goal or dream, even if they achieved it, it would have disassembled eventually. Humans don't operate under one unchanging system, nor should we want to aspire to.
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
[B]No, I'm not really interested. Religious and philosophical ideas about the self/universe/enlightenment etc., don't appeal to me. There's the universe, and its inhabited by doomed organisms. Nothing more.The non-religious/spiritual equivalent of this "Brahman" (two-headed mutant cows?) is the loss of individuality. For the species to give up "evil" deeds is to give up greed, jealousy, anger, selfishness, hate, intolerance etc. The "negative" emotions. I would rather have an eternally conflict-ridden civilization than one featuring such peace. I can't think of a worse hell than the loss of those emotions. [/B
Fair enough. I'm not saying that I actively go about trying to rid myself of my Ego. I live my life. In my mind, I try to commit myself to a path of action to provide for my family, friends, and society in a way that's righteous and in tune with what I see as my ethical duty atm. I'm a college student lol; I'm having fun and living the time of my life and preparing for my future. I am not a monk or one who has removed himself from society to meditate upon the mind and consciousness. I'm not ready for higher level meditation, as are the vast majority of our society. It's why Hindus believe in reincarnation because enlightenment cannot be achieved in one lifetime.
Ultimately though, what's said is that the joys we find in our lives are essentially ephemeral, and that true bliss is achieved when you attain a state of oneness.
Originally posted by Lord LucienYou said we "need" evil to defend against the "hive mind." Direct quotation from you. So you should explain, so I don't have to call you stupid.
A.) a hive-mind (not the psychological collective consciousness, mind you) is a science-fiction term/insectoid feature. I doubt the dictators were aiming for that.
Originally posted by Lord LucienAgreed, but I've been attributing that to the goodness of humans and you've been attributing that to the evil of humans. Like you need to be reminded that homicide and tyranny fall under the definition of "evil" for some of us.
B.) No matter their goal or dream, even if they achieved it, it would have disassembled eventually. Humans don't operate under one unchanging system, nor should we want to aspire to.
Originally posted by Quark_666You're face is stupid.
You said we "need" evil to defend against the "hive mind." Direct quotation from you. So you should explain, so I don't have to call you stupid.
I do think we need "evil", as it provides a pleasant counter-balance to the prospect that our species will... meld its consciousness via some technological wonder. Stuff of Sci-Fi, but who knows. But I doubt very, very much that the Great Dictators of the 20th century had that plan in mind.
Originally posted by Quark_666I know, but such moral absolutism isn't something I understand.
Agreed, but I've been attributing that to the goodness of humans and you've been attributing that to the evil of humans. Like you need to be reminded that homicide and tyranny fall under the definition of "evil" for some of us.
Originally posted by Korto VosNuffin.
Wait Lucien, what the hell did you mean by "two-headed mutant cows?"
Originally posted by Lord LucienSo you're basically using an issue that doesn't yet exist and probably won't ever exist to support the need for evil?
You're face is stupid.I do think we need "evil", as it provides a pleasant counter-balance to the prospect that our species will... meld its consciousness via some technological wonder. Stuff of Sci-Fi, but who knows. But I doubt very, very much that the Great Dictators of the 20th century had that plan in mind.
I know, but such moral absolutism isn't something I understand.