Gladiator vs Magento (with new powers)

Originally posted by kgkg
Yes in reality that's how it works according to Einstein theory that this is comic lol.

As you approach light speed, time is slow for the rest, and if you go beyond, you should go back in time.

Just a theory and comic don't seem to follow that logic.

i don't remember there were some issue.

there was one i remember is when he was fighting some Rune's Henchman

See, I wish people would stop with the whole, "I don't remember, some issue with some guy somewhere". If people remember that little about an issue....suddenly they remember that Surfer was fighting at lightspeed? Or Gladiator?

I will find it if you don't beileve me LMAO.

But you don't follow your own logic:

Someone who can travel beyond light speed can't fight at light speed that just doesn't make sense.

Why doesn't it make sense? You can fly at light speed, but that doesn't mean you have the reaction time or thinking ability to fight at that speed. Storm, for example, can fly at mach three, correct? She doesn't have superhuman reaction time or combat speed....that's just her flying velocity.

how does storm fly? wind?

Iron also does the same , but he uses external source.

why whouldn't Gladiator able to fight at light speed.

he already did in once while fight with THor.

and you don't think at those speed flying throw space they will be hitting ; astroid , stars , blackholes. so they need to think pretty fast

and silversurfer once was going threw an astroid blet(astroid field)without hitting any.

Thats cause he is the surfer lolol

When you're flying at lightspeed, your body converts to energy, so you don't have to avoid objects in the way. I know it sounds like I'm talking real world stuff again, but it was actually brought to my attention in the pages of Flash.

It just seems incredibly inconsistent to me that Gladiator can fight at lightspeed, but getting whipped by characters who don't move near that speed. There are so many more instances where he hasn't moved at lightspeed than he has that I have to disregard the case of him fighting at 100x the speed of light. He's never shown that kind of speed before or since.

Originally posted by demigawd
When you're flying at lightspeed, your body converts to energy, so you don't have to avoid objects in the way. I know it sounds like I'm talking real world stuff again, but it was actually brought to my attention in the pages of Flash.

lol that's real world again

Because according to Einstein, mass can never travel at light speed.

This is not true for Comic at least in the case of Surfer and Gladiator

I do agree with you that people who are lower then Glad’s speed has got the best of him but it doesn't mean he can't fight at those speed.

In comic they need a story; it would be nice if Glad just knocked out his opponent rite away.

Like superman we knock he can fight at near light speed, but gets hit by slow pokes (same thing)

Thor - who can also fight fast?
SS - don't need to say.

Gladiator surfers from poor writing 

Someone who can Rip stars, move planets do you really think he would loose.

But that's how they explain Flash being able to travel all over the place without running into walls and stuff. Some kind of light molecule phase or somesuch. I figure the same thing must happen with every light speeder. I dunno...the whole lightspeed thing is too vague and inconsistent for me, lol.

Either way, Gladiator would have to penetrate Magneto's shields. But just the process of attempting to do so would screw up his psionic abilities - he'd immediately slow down and get weaker. Then, Magneto would take him out.

Flash is DC.

We are talking about marvel.

Bugs bunny never dies i wonder why????

How whould it scew his psionic abilites?

Originally posted by demigawd
Flash does not always use the speedforce. In fact, not all Flashes are even able to use the speedforce at all. Speedforce is a special skill.

He doesn't? The speedforce gives him his power. Otherwise he's not the Flash.

That storyline doesn't jive with continuity. Thor has fought and beaten Gladiator without using any superspeed devices or any superspeed at all. Hulk doesn't fight at 100 times the speed of light - he nailed Gladiator but good. Colossus gave as good as he got for awhile against Gladiator (and this was Gladiator as written by his creator) and Colossus doesn't move at 100 times the speed of light. The amount of evidence that's against that is overwhelming. So much so that I'd disregard that fight.

Yeah, doesn't jive with continuity. 🙄 You mean like how Magneto screws with the iron in someone's blood? Or how he can mind control people? Or how Magneto opens up a wormhole and you use it as a reason that Magneto can create a blackhole to suck up his opponent? How many times has he done each of this tactics? ...Cccccuz the argument doesn't seem to jive with continuity.

Superman gets tagged as well and he can move and think as fast or faster than light. Thor has the god blast - how many times have we seen him use it? Namor can produce electric shocks from his body, does he often use it?

Thor has the same power - and Magneto blocked him just fine. Multiple times. And this before THREE power ups. Unless you're saying that Gladiator is SO much more powerful than Thor that he can do AFTER three power ups what Thor could not BEFORE three power ups, then it's safe to conclude that Gladiator is not going to take down Magneto's shields, at least not before Magneto takes over Gladiator's mind.

Thor can smash a planet to pieces in three blows? Has Thor moved asteroids under his on strength?

Let's take this to the next level - Gladiator's power is psionic in nature. He's actually a tactile telekinetic. Magneto's power interferes with psionics. If Gladiator came in contact with Magneto's shield, it would interrupt his power and vastly decrease his speed, power and durability.

It can also work the other way around and bust his powers. Or Gladiator would slam into Magneto fast enough for that to take effect. Magneto would be dead after a speed blitz, so much for it affecting Kallark in a good or bad way.

My logic is just fine. You may want to re-examine yours, however. Gladiator has no idea what Cannonball's powers are - and yet he hit Cannonball with an iron beam. If not for Cannonball's powers, HE WOULD HAVE DIED. that's hardly the work of a man just trying to hold Cannonball off, don't you think? Gladiator came into the fight not wanting to hurt Cannonball, but after getting punked and countered, Gladiator got pissed off and started using lethal tactics that Cannonball was smart enough to counter. Would the X-men and Lilandra have been pissed? Yeah...but when you're getting punked like that and you're proud and mighty, logic goes out the window.

He doesn't know Cannonball? How the hell does he not know Cannonball and his power. You act as if Gladiator clueless. Try this, if Gladiator didn't know what Cannonball's powers are, why the hell would he hit him with an iron beam?

Would he kill someone over his pride being hurt? Please, you don't know Gladiator at all. He puts his honor before his pride. He puts Lilandra and the Empire before his own self. This sh!t you've been crapping is nonsense. He's not a murderer, nor would he kill an ally over something like pride.

FIGURE OF SPEECH?!? He was SHOCKED Cannonball was ALIVE! What are you smoking??? If he wasn't trying to kill him, he wouldn't have been so shocked that his confidence dropped like a brick.

???Because Gladiator is a cold blooded murderer. 🙄 You don't know sh!t about Kallark. Not only that, you seem to think he'd kill a kid. :laughs: Ever heard of crappy writing? Well here it is. Leader of the Imperial Guard actually trying to kill a kid who's also an ally of his Empire.

Magneto doesn't need to kill Gladiator to put him down. He just calmly de-activates Gladiator's powers and then tells him to go home...or go punch himself until he's knocked out.

How? Where do you get these ideas? Why didn't he deactivate Doom, Thor, or the X-Men and tell them to go home? 😂

magneto is cool and everything and his shields are durable but i dont think is shield can stand up to planet shattering blows

on a side note, the cannon ball thing Gladiator didnt show up to fight, its just that CB was basically doing his best johnny storm impression, rushing into a fight like some dumb ass. kallark was just annoyed at first and after his patience was tried thats when he got serious...so i would say that after that point he was intent on killing him

also if glad could do the phase thru solid objects at light speed thing like flash, that would be a awesome cuz if you know, for a while impulse was the only flash who could do it without making the molecules of the object explode, its only been recently with the aid of the speed force that wally can do it now, so since marvel has no such thing as a speed force if he(glad) were to do that he would explode magneto's molecules or at the very least that of his shiled

Gladiator doesn't need lightspeed to go throug Magento shield. Gladiator can be stopped if he is flying at lightspeed, but not by Magneto.

Flash is DC.

We are talking about marvel.

Bugs bunny never dies i wonder why????

How whould it scew his psionic abilites?

Well, they just don't bother explaining FTL in Marvel, mainly because there's not much emphasis on speed there. I don't think it's been explained one way or another. But I guess that's beside the point.

Bugs Bunny???

Magnetic fields interfere with psionic power. It's how Magneto was able to block Xavier, Phoenix and Psylocke from detecting him at the same time. It was also how he was able to fight back against Phoenix (he, by the way, had a MUCH better showing against Phoenix than Gladiator). he interrupted Nate Grey's psionic field (they weren't fighting - it was a misunderstanding, but Nate couldn't contain his energies). His ability to disrupt psionic patterns is well-established. Since Gladiator's power is psionic, it's a bad match up.

Originally posted by Beyonder
He doesn't? The speedforce gives him his power. Otherwise he's not the Flash.

I'll chalk this one up to you not knowing anything about the Flash. The speedforce gives him his power, but each Flash is able to only tap into a certain amount of the speedforce. That is why some are faster than others. He can only exceed the speed of light by tapping into it at extreme levels, which in the past has threatened to kill him. And once he does so, he beats instant travel...by arriving in the past.

Yeah, doesn't jive with continuity. 🙄 You mean like how Magneto screws with the iron in someone's blood?

Done on no less than a dozen occasions.

Or how he can mind control people?

Or how Magneto opens up a wormhole and you use it as a reason that Magneto can create a blackhole to suck up his opponent?

New power - there's no track record established for it since it's only two months old.

How many times has he done each of this tactics? ...Cccccuz the argument doesn't seem to jive with continuity.

I see what you tried to do there. Fine attempt, but it didn't quite work out in your favor.

Superman gets tagged as well and he can move and think as fast or faster than light.

That's the thing - what makes Flash unique is that he thinks at superspeed, which makes him always able to fight at superspeed. Superman can't unless he's completely focused, and that explains why sometimes he can speedblitz and other times he's ambushed. It's been said that Quicksilver is a grumpy bastard because the entire world moves in slow motion to him - his thoughts and actions are completely tied. He does everything at superspeed. Not so for Superman, or Gladiator. That's why they get nailed. Their thinking and reaction times aren't lightspeed.

Thor has the god blast - how many times have we seen him use it?

Offhand, five times. Someone even more familiar with Thor can probably think of even more times.

Thor can smash a planet to pieces in three blows? Has Thor moved asteroids under his on strength?

So you're trying to say that Gladiator is in a strength class beyond Thor?? That he hits harder with his bare hands than Thor does with Mjolnir? heh...heheh....hehehehehehahahahaahhaa!

It can also work the other way around and bust his powers. Or Gladiator would slam into Magneto fast enough for that to take effect. Magneto would be dead after a speed blitz, so much for it affecting Kallark in a good or bad way.

I disagree. I don't believe for a second that Gladiator can generate more force in the one second it will take Magneto to knock him out than Thor was able to generate for a solid minute of pounding or Galactus was able to generate with a full blast. You're giving Gladiator WAY more credit than you ought to.

He doesn't know Cannonball? How the hell does he not know Cannonball and his power. You act as if Gladiator clueless.

He's not clueless...they've just never met. He knows that Cannonball is a member of the team, but he has no idea what Cannonball can and cannot take. He tried to kill Cannonball...you're being delusional to think otherwise.

Try this, if Gladiator didn't know what Cannonball's powers are, why the hell would he hit him with an iron beam?

Um...because he was trying to kill Cannonball.

Would he kill someone over his pride being hurt? Please, you don't know Gladiator at all. He puts his honor before his pride. He puts Lilandra and the Empire before his own self. This sh!t you've been crapping is nonsense. He's not a murderer, nor would he kill an ally over something like pride.

Uh huh, and I'm sure he was just trying to tickle Cannonball with that massive punch, huh? Please...if Cannonball didnt' come up with that brilliant strategy, he would have been DEAD. Do you deny that? When Cannonball didnt die, Gladiator was SHOCKED. Do you deny that? Did Gladiator say that was his most powerful blow? Or will you deny that? Would Gladiator hit a boy as hard as he can if he weren't trying to kill him?

End of story.

Ever heard of crappy writing? Well here it is. Leader of the Imperial Guard actually trying to kill a kid who's also an ally of his Empire.

Oh, so we move from justifying the issue by saying it was never Gladiator's intention to kill Cannonball to calling it crappy writing? Is that your subtle way of conceding the point?

🙄

How? Where do you get these ideas? Why didn't he deactivate Doom, Thor, or the X-Men and tell them to go home? 😂

He never had a full battle with Doom. The last time he fought Thor, he handled him just fine, and he always handles the X-men. His good, conflicted side gets the best of him. He never loses from being overpowered by his enemies.

You know, magnetism effects all things. This is how molecules are held together. Stars are held together through different levels of magnetism. Now, I'm not gonna argue that Stan Lee and Jack Kirby knew what they were creating when the came up with th eidea of Magneto. But a character that can control, manipulate and create magnetic fields is a pretty powerful character. If you consider that magnetism holds a star together and when a star collapses it creates a black hole, then you've got to admit there is little Gladiator could do to keep his ass from being handed to him by Magneto. If he travels at light speed, and black hole is capable of swallowing matter, even light, then the argument is over.

So, to keep referring to Magnetos advancements in power as "new powers" is a little off the mark. He's always had the ability to do these things, given the very nature of his power, maybe he just didn't know how to until now. That's why mutants have to learn to use their powers.

Can someone tell me which issue of the comic he displayed this black hole ability?

Excalibur #7 or 8. He created a wormhole to instantly move from Genosha to NYC. A wormhole is simply a blackhole and whitehole tied together.

And you're right...they're not powers that he was given, just powers that they learned. They're new abilities to him, but not the result of some enhancement. They actually explain all of that in the current issue of Excalibur and why he is now displaying powers are a greater level than ever.

Originally posted by demigawd
Done on no less than a dozen occasions.

When?

Six occasions

Really? Issues please.

New power - there's no track record established for it since it's only two months old.

Will see.

I see what you tried to do there. Fine attempt, but it didn't quite work out in your favor.

I didn't fell anything.

That's the thing - what makes Flash unique is that he thinks at superspeed, which makes him always able to fight at superspeed. Superman can't unless he's completely focused, and that explains why sometimes he can speedblitz and other times he's ambushed. It's been said that Quicksilver is a grumpy bastard because the entire world moves in slow motion to him - his thoughts and actions are completely tied. He does everything at superspeed. Not so for Superman, or Gladiator. That's why they get nailed. Their thinking and reaction times aren't lightspeed.

? Again, Gladiator speed blitzed Ego and fought Thor at 100X speed of light.

Offhand, five times. Someone even more familiar with Thor can probably think of even more times.

No. The argument is he rarely uses this attack - but it doesn't mean he can't.

So you're trying to say that Gladiator is in a strength class beyond Thor?? That he hits harder with his bare hands than Thor does with Mjolnir? heh...heheh....hehehehehehahahahaahhaa!

When has Thor destroyed a planet? Thor's main power ain't his strength.

I disagree. I don't believe for a second that Gladiator can generate more force in the one second it will take Magneto to knock him out than Thor was able to generate for a solid minute of pounding or Galactus was able to generate with a full blast. You're giving Gladiator WAY more credit than you ought to.

? Kinda like you giving Magneto way more credit than he deserves?

He's not clueless...they've just never met. He knows that Cannonball is a member of the team, but he has no idea what Cannonball can and cannot take. He tried to kill Cannonball...you're being delusional to think otherwise.

Yes. Because he was their to kill Cannonball. 🙄

Um...because he was trying to kill Cannonball.

Um...if he didn't know Cannonball's powers, why'd he knock Cannonball around in the first place? He could've killed Cannonball in the first blow - JUST before Cannonball hurt Kallark's pride.

Funny how you assume Kallark is a murderer. How he'd just murder an ally despite meaning it go against his Highess and Empire's wishes.

Uh huh, and I'm sure he was just trying to tickle Cannonball with that massive punch, huh? Please...if Cannonball didnt' come up with that brilliant strategy, he would have been DEAD. Do you deny that? When Cannonball didnt die, Gladiator was SHOCKED. Do you deny that? Did Gladiator say that was his most powerful blow? Or will you deny that? Would Gladiator hit a boy as hard as he can if he weren't trying to kill him?

End of story.

Yeah, a badly written. Maybe they outta write one with Thor fighting a member of New Mutants, toying with him first and ending up trying to kill the kid (probably) Jubilee. 🙄

Gladiator is such a murder. 😛uke:

Oh, so we move from justifying the issue by saying it was never Gladiator's intention to kill Cannonball to calling it crappy writing? Is that your subtle way of conceding the point? 🙄

Why are you rolling your eyes? Is the fact that Gladiator not a murderer giving you a headache? What's the matter you can compute that fact into logic?

I say it again, WHY THE HELL WOULD HE BE STUPID & FOOLISHLY KILL A KID? A KID WHO'S ALSO PART OF THE X-MEN - ALLY TO THE SHI'AR EMPIRE.

Not bad writting? Gah, obviously that doesn't compute. Maybe you outta find that warranty for your brain. Looks like you got a lemon.

He never had a full battle with Doom. The last time he fought Thor, he handled him just fine, and he always handles the X-men. His good, conflicted side gets the best of him. He never loses from being overpowered by his enemies.

Nah, Doom just punked him with some gas. Thor? The one that doesn't have super speed or moves asteroid on his own?

Originally posted by Beyonder
When?

Most recently in Magneto Dark Seduction, when he manhandled the Avengers that way.

Previously he did it to the Avengers AGAIN when the flung Quicksilver for miles and knocked Cap back with his own shield

Previously when he encountered Nate Grey while he was timelost - he grabbed him by the iron in his blood and overloaded his powers.

Previously in four different issues during the Fatal Attractions saga (so that's FOUR times) - including the opening sequence when he blocked Jean and Xavier's telepathy and locked up X-men, X-Factor, X-Force and several others at the same time by their iron

I'm not going to go back and give an exaustive list. Needless to say, I think I've made my point.

Really? Issues please.

Most recently, in the previous Excalibur, when he forced the teleporter to jump

Previously - Odekirk the Forger during Kelly's run

Previously - undid Beast's brainwashing by Doom and used him to build the counter-insurgency against Doom when he conquered Earth

Previously - The Avengers (has a habit of punking them) when he was forcing Scarlet Witch to dance (a little creepy, actually), and made the rest of the Avengers do silly things by controlling the electrical impulses in their brains. He lost because Vision did some weird partial solidification trick on someone's mind, which hid himself from Magneto until he ambushed him.

Previously - Mind controlled Warren's parents and used them to set a trap to kidnap the X-men

Happy?

Now...in exchange, tell me all the times when Kellogg did lightspeed fighting. You mentioned his fight against Ego - did it say lightspeed? Ego is slow.

The 100x the speed of light thing sounds like a one-off to me. That's why I don't consider it valid. Of course, if you can come up with as many cases as I did with those two examples above, then I'll concede the point that Kellogg can fight at lightspeed.

No. The argument is he rarely uses this attack - but it doesn't mean he can't.

And the difference is, Magneto frequently uses the iron in the blood attack - it's part of who he is. The speed blitz is something I very rarely see Gladiator do. It shows me that because he's just a guy with psionic powers that he'd have to access them in order to do his feats. That means his thinking speed is normal - he couldn't speed blitz Magneto like that in the beginning because their thinking speeds are identical. Gladiator and Magneto think to attack at the same time - Magneto's shields are up and he's sending a command to Gladiator's brain. By the time Gladiator starts pounding on Mags shields, it will have been too late - Gladiator might get a couple of shots in on the shields, but he'll already be mental toast.

When has Thor destroyed a planet? Thor's main power ain't his strength.

Thor was able to break Celestial armor. He lifted the Midgard Serpent!!! That's plenty strong. His main power ain't his strength, that's true...because he's multi-dimensional. Didn't stop Magneto from handling him in their rematch.

? Kinda like you giving Magneto way more credit than he deserves?

See citations above. I'm giving him exactly the credit he deserves.

Yes. Because he was their to kill Cannonball.

Now we're on the same page!

Um...if he didn't know Cannonball's powers, why'd he knock Cannonball around in the first place?

😱

Because he tried to kill him! LOL

He could've killed Cannonball in the first blow - JUST before Cannonball hurt Kallark's pride.

Remember - Gladiator didn't do that to Cannonball right off the bat. He tried to restrain him at first, but Cannonball kept fighting back. He's the exact order of the fight:

Gladiator grabs Cannonball and says, "I'm looking for the X-men", but not trying to hurt him.

Cannonball breaks free flies around Gladiator and sends him flying from the back, TAKING GLADIATOR BY SURPRISE (so much for superspeed).

Gladiator, once he gets his bearings, stops Cannonball in mid-air. Not trying to hurt him or anything. He then tells Cannonball to surrender before he hurts himself

Cannonball then grabs Gladiator and shifts momentum, sending them flying in the rubble below. Again, Gladiator is TOO SLOW to react.

It wasn't until he said, "I shall suffer this affront no further!" that he started physically attacking Cannonball, knowing full well that Cannonball could die from it. Was it a poor decision? Yes, but how often do we make regretful decisions out of rage in our lives? Pretty often.

Funny how you assume Kallark is a murderer. How he'd just murder an ally despite meaning it go against his Highess and Empire's wishes.

Frankly, Gladiator doesn't have much respect for the X-men. I'm reading this issue now and he refers to them as "mongrels". Surely killing one mongrel wouldn't mean much. Furthermore, it's not like he asked for the X-men's help...he basically teleported them without even waiting for an answer. That shows disdain, not respect.

Either way, arguing the mechanics of it is pointless. It all comes down to this:

GLADIATOR IS SHOCKED CANNONBALL IS ALIVE.

I don't understand what more there is to be said about this fight.

Yeah, a badly written. Maybe they outta write one with Thor fighting a member of New Mutants, toying with him first and ending up trying to kill the kid (probably) Jubilee. 🙄

Gladiator is such a murder. 😛uke:

So you've gone from trying to explain how I completely misread the issue to now calling it crap? Well, I call Gladiator fighting Thor at 100x the speed of light when neither of them have ever done anything like that before crap.

Why are you rolling your eyes? Is the fact that Gladiator not a murderer giving you a headache? What's the matter you can compute that fact into logic?

There's no point in arguing any of this further - I showed above that Gladiator was clearly trying to kill Cannonball - look at his reaction. Further arguments are irrelevant.

Not bad writting? Gah, obviously that doesn't compute. Maybe you outta find that warranty for your brain. Looks like you got a lemon.

Uh huh, I'll look into it. In the meantime, try taking some reading classes. Then re-read the issue.

blackhole, fight over, gladiator loses