Originally posted by Floigen
that is just like saying "if I dont see it happen then it doesnt happen" even though we dont notice it, it still happens
You've missed the point entirely.
Janus' arguement is not saying that if we don't hear a falling tree make a sound that it would mean that the falling tree isn't making a sound. He's saying that if we were not there to perceive the sound then how do we know that the sound was generated or not generated? You cannot know for certain of what may happen if you are not aware of it.
Perhaps nothing really occurs when I am unaware that it occurs. Perhaps existence is really only existent when I come into contact with it. Perhaps the words you place on this forum are created only at the point I access them. So you do not exist, and indeed you do not. The only part of you that really exists to me is the words I read as I scan through your post. So should I accept that you are real, only because I see words appear on this forum? If a person posts to the forum, and no one anywhere ever reads his post, did he ever write anything?
Originally posted by Regret
Perhaps nothing really occurs when I am unaware that it occurs. Perhaps existence is really only existent when I come into contact with it. Perhaps the words you place on this forum are created only at the point I access them. So you do not exist, and indeed you do not. The only part of you that really exists to me is the words I read as I scan through your post. So should I accept that you are real, only because I see words appear on this forum? If a person posts to the forum, and no one anywhere ever reads his post, did he ever write anything?
Exactly. The point is that you simply do not know.
The answer is twofold:
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Originally posted by Janus Marius
No, it doesn't. Sound must be perceived by an ear to be sound. By its very definition. If no one perceives it, it is not perceived, ergo it is NOT sound. Period.
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Originally posted by Janus Marius[/list]
The entire point of the argument is that IF you cannot perceive the sound, THEN you can never prove that it exists; you can only infer that it does from past experiences...
sound isn't some abstract concept that has to be percieved by humans to exist. sound waves actually exhist whether the ear picks them up or not. anyways, it is still picked up by other animals. obviously it makes a sound because everything we know about the world around us tells us so. stress is placed on an object (the tree), the object reacts to this stress causing vibrations, the vibrations produce sound waves. a reaction won't change just because there isn't a passive observer there to see it. that doesn't make any sense. i mean really by that logic, if a tree falls down in the woods and nobody is there to see it, who's to say it ever fell down at all?
Quantum mechanics says that something does not objectively exist if it is not being measured, and must exist as a superposition of possibilities. If no one is measuring/observing that tree, then it must behave like a superposition of possibilities as well.
For that, the tree must be totally isolated from us. I mean just the fact that the tree interacts with its enviroment around that interacts indirectly with us will make that tree exist objectively. If the tree is in the other side of the universe it should work, but I think the tree don´t need to be so far away, we just need to be in a situation where it is impossible to acquire any information about the tree directly or indirectly. If we have these conditions, quantum mechanics implies that the tree will exist like a superposition of possibilities.
Originally posted by Atlantis001
Quantum mechanics says that something does not objectively exist if it is not being measured, and must exist as a superposition of possibilities. If no one is measuring/observing that tree, then it must behave like a superposition of possibilities as well.For that, the tree must be totally isolated from us. I mean just the fact that the tree interacts with its enviroment around that interacts indirectly with us will make that tree exist objectively. If the tree is in the other side of the universe it should work, but I think the tree don´t need to be so far away, we just need to be in a situation where it is impossible to acquire any information about the tree directly or indirectly. If we have these conditions, quantum mechanics implies that the tree will exist like a superposition of possibilities.
The tree would have to be outside of our universe. All things within the universe effect all other things at some small point in space and time.
Originally posted by buttafly
...and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound? I've debated this with my friend and because her favourite subject is SCIENCE, she argues that sounds still exists even though no one else can hear it. What are you thoughts on this??
Ahh yes , let's blame science so all the hippies in the world can ramble on about how my petroleum in waiting makes sound as it comes a few inches closer to my gas tank.
Sorry to bump, but I just invaded this forum.
My question is, and I'm sorry if this has already been mentioned.
Do we care/need to know if the tree makes a sound? Deductive logic tells us that since every other tree that falls makes a sound, the tree that falls in the woods is likely to make a sound. Simple as that.
If that doesn't work, post some s recording equipment and remember to turn on the sound, not just the video ✅
And if that doesnt work. why do we care? Science does not whore out answers to questions where no credible answer is needed.
Sorry if this has all been gone over before 😮
I said that, I've said that..........I've said sound equipment before.........lol
AND
can sneeze in my house, and if no one hears it cause they're not home..did it make a sound...even if I was deaf....even if I was comatose?
But when you use the word "detected" that is stating being felt or heard in someway.[n] the act of detecting something; catching sight of something
[n] the investigation of criminal activities to determine the perpetrator; "detection is hard on the feet"
[n] the perception that something has occurred or some state exists; "early detection can often lead to a cure"
[n] the detection that a signal is being receivedJust because it's not being detected doesn't mean it didn't make a sound
Only through receptors..Not all things have receptors and still the action
does occure....You must be talking about things in a vacme then....
OK...if we say that the tree fell only if you hear it or record the sound or vibration, then what else is happening when we are not aware?
this may sound strange, but what about entities, spirits and such? We can't perceive them, but they do exist. They are always around to hear it, or feel the vibrations.
Does a vibrational detection device count?
The sub particles are alive and always changing, acting and reacting.
OK...since we are still talking about the tree thing..It really depends if it's a pine tree.my fav..