Originally posted by Ushgarak
Oh c'mon, he's Han freaking SOLO. Geez. From gunslinger to pilot to thief, he's damn good at everything.Carth's just another in a long line of grunts.
Seriously Ush, he's Obi freaking Kenobi. From jedi to diplomat to gunslinger he's damn good at everything.
Sidious is just another in a long line of Sith lords.
Huh, that feels as silly as it sounds.
Kenobi IS darn good at everything.
And seeing as Sidious achieved more than any Sith Lord did ever, that puts him rather apart from the rest.
I fail to see what is in the tiniest bit special about Carth that puts him anywhere near the same league as Solo, who is a legend. Your clumsy mockery makes very little impact on that.
Uh huh. And the point I'm making is you're relying on reputation and fame in the SW universe (and in the case of Sidious, his political achievements) as dictating a match. I don't see how that's supposed to be solid and conclusive.
People here already make assumptions based on one-sided bias. No point in flaming the fires.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Kenobi IS darn good at everything.And seeing as Sidious achieved more than any Sith Lord did ever, that puts him rather apart from the rest.
I fail to see what is in the tiniest bit special about Carth that puts him anywhere near the same league as Solo, who is a legend. Your clumsy mockery makes very little impact on that.
That puts him apart politically, but it hardly serves as any true indicator as to his fighting prowess in the grand scale of EU continuity (which I'm assuming we're using since we do have Carth).
Clumsy mockery or not, simply saying Solo is lucky or a legend doesn't give him a superior weapon, aimbot, and godmode.
The fact that he became a legend does in fact imply those very skills. He's at the top of his game, the best in huis business. Carth is a grunt, he's just another heavy, there is absolutely no reason to think he is in Han's league at all. Add in the EU and Han's list of feats becomes huge.
And politics is power, and regardless, Palpatine still got to the top when no-one else did, which makes him the greatest Sith Lord there ever was- fact. He did it by guile and power, which is all the comparison you would ever need to make.
The fact that he became a legend does in fact imply those very skills. He's at the top of his game, the best in huis business. Carth is a grunt, he's just another heavy, there is absolutely no reason to think he is in Han's league at all. Add in the EU and Han's list of feats becomes huge.
Carth is a war hero. That's not simply "just another grunt" who happened to have a gun in his hand.. And he was known as a skillful fighter and pilot. To say he's just one heavy wouldn't be accurate.
And politics is power, and regardless, Palpatine still got to the top when no-one else did, which makes him the greatest Sith Lord there ever was- fact. He did it by guile and power, which is all the comparison you would ever need to make.
So Palpatine will use "Politics of doom" if he were to fight Obi-Wan? I fail to see where you're going with this. In a versus fight, which this is, it's not about who has the bigger reputation or who has more political skills, it's about who's greater in battle.
The way the "clumsy mockery" was phrased is poking fun at people who use the aforementioned logic.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
The fact that he became a legend does in fact imply those very skills. He's at the top of his game, the best in huis business. Carth is a grunt, he's just another heavy, there is absolutely no reason to think he is in Han's league at all. Add in the EU and Han's list of feats becomes huge.And politics is power, and regardless, Palpatine still got to the top when no-one else did, which makes him the greatest Sith Lord there ever was- fact. He did it by guile and power, which is all the comparison you would ever need to make.
Carth a mere grunt? Yea right. Carth was considered a hero of the Mandalorian Wars and was one of the few suvivors of Malachor V. Not to mention Carth was considered important enought to adivse the Jedi who escorted Bastila to Taris.
He didn't seem very powerful at that point to me. So he's a war veteran? That's an abstract term; it doesn't actually help with anything, unlike Han's recorded exploits. He advised because he is a ranking military guy, but that doesn't make him any more important or better than, say, Typho- and by the same logic, what makes Carth any better than Atton? He's a grunt. He's not actually famous for doing anything- unlike Han, who has a string of Galactically famous victories under his belt.
The clumsy mockery was just that- clumsy, and as the logic behind the counter-argument was void, doubly so.
And Palpatine's political skills were simply an extension of his intelligence and dark powers. It's the way of it all. He's powerful enough for Yoda to fear, which rather closes the deal.
Sorry, but Han is one of the greatest heroes of the SW saga. To compare him to a secondary character in a computer game, who has no specific reason to be any better, is simply weak.
Yeah, that's what I especially hate. How people always assume that just because the guy's a good video-game character, makes him kickass. Han we saw as great, it's been shown in a real life, one shot and you're down. He didn't get shot.
In the videogame, Carth got shot...alot, he can be slashed with lightsabers, zapped by lightning and have grenades literally blow up in his face...still unscratched in the end somehow.
You just can't argue videogame characters to live-action ones.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
He didn't seem very powerful at that point to me. So he's a war veteran? That's an abstract term; it doesn't actually help with anything, unlike Han's recorded exploits. He advised because he is a ranking military guy, but that doesn't make him any more important or betetrt than, say, Typho- and by the same logic, what makes Carth any better than Atton? He's a grunt. He's not actually famous for doing anything- unlike Han, who has a string of Gacltically famous victories under his belt.
I would like to see some of these Galatcily famous victories or a list of them, and what is the logic behind a war vetern not meaning anything. Carth had to have fought more than once on the battlefield against fanaticle Mandalorian warriors who had spent their entire life training and fightning.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
And Palpatine's politicla skills were simply an extension of his intelligence and dark powers. It's the way of it all. He's powerful enough for Yoda to fear, which rather closes the deal.
And what does Palpatine have anything to do with this Carth vs Han? And Palpatine is far from the greatest Sith Lord around. Sith Lords like Marka Ragnos and Naga Sadow who had the power to destroy stars would dwarf Palps in greatness.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Sorry, but Han is one of the greatest heroes of the SW saga. To compare him to a secondary character in a computer game, who has no specific reason to be any better, is simply weak.
This is a common statement from EU haters like you. You argue that because the character is from a Computer Game and is not as structured as a movie character then therefore he is nothing compaired to the movie character.
Oh really? And what reason do you have to argue that Carth is better than Atton or any other KOTOR character? Simply because you like him a lot? The hypocrisy in such staements is astounding. And what reason do you have to label me an EU hater, btw? That shows a bias that speaks very badly of you.
EU mass exaggerations that break canonicity about force powers aside, those Sith Lords failed to achieve. Palpatine did. Hence he was greater than they- simple mythology logic. Part of the myhological point of the films involves GL showing the Sith finally achieve their victory under the greatest of them all.
Han is a war veteran too. Carth was pretty crappy as a character at the point after the wars, and nor is there ever any specific reference to what he was good at. Half the Imperial Navy staff are 'war veterans' but they are crap. Point is, Carth has never been defined as anyone with any specific qualities. Han has, and Han is at the very top. Comparison is futile.
Han is an ace gunslinger- as continually demonstrated on screen- and as for his victories? Humm, umm, well, do Yavin and Endor mean anything to you? The EU stretches it even more, with great victories past and futrure in his character, including killing the Emperor again, crappy plot as it was.
Carth doesn't even place. The argument is preposterous.