Im going to have to give Bats and DD the top slots. As mentioned before, they naturally trained to get as strong as they are, or as fast and agilie they are. Nor do they wear suits that give them any type of enhancement(save for body armor or extra padding).
For being enhaced, i dont know of many Panther strength feats. Also, for training naturally, Bruce and Matt arent that far behind in strength. I tihnk DD is the most agile of the 4, while running speed may go to Cap.
Originally posted by jrodslam
Im going to have to give Bats and DD the top slots. As mentioned before, they naturally trained to get as strong as they are, or as fast and agilie they are. Nor do they wear suits that give them any type of enhancement(save for body armor or extra padding).
You see Jrod, that shows how much you know about T'challa. I'll get to Steve later but as for T'challa, He has been training in combat since he was 4 years old (think the movie 300 here). By the age of 14, he was able to take down numerous guards, without them even knowing mind you, and take on the Bonefied SuperHuman "Bull". (I wish I could find the dang issue I would post the scans). By the age of 17, T'challa had already mastered dozens of martial arts, and mastered his own unique style of wakandan martial arts (which involves aspects of animal mimicry, meaning he was crawling and leaping on all fours like a panther, which also means he had to be supremely agile before the ingestion of the herb to perform such maneuvers, and not to mention have them actually be effective in unarmed combat) which by the way, he used to take down 6 of Wakanda's greatest warriors, then take on the Current black panther (who was enhanced by the Heart shaped Herb) and defeated him.
T'challa, by the age of 17, was already at Bruce and Matt's level, before Bruce and Matt were even at their current levels, which is Peak "Athlete".
The ingestion of the Herb only served to Vault T'challa past a level they will never achieve, which is the "Enhanced" or "low level" superhuman area.
Originally posted by jrodslam
For being enhaced, i dont know of many Panther strength feats. Also, for training naturally, Bruce and Matt arent that far behind in strength. I tihnk DD is the most agile of the 4, while running speed may go to Cap.
You see thats the problem with you Jrod, you sit here and say, "Well, I look at DD feats and he has feats that match these guys blah blah blah, so he is on there level".
Well he isn't, for the simple fact that it isn't his character. Yes it is true, Steve was but a frail boy before he took the SSS, but afterward......and pay attention here.....He became the "PINNACLE OF HUMAN PERFECTION" he became the "MOST PERFECT HUMAN ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH" in fact, the greatest athletes on the earth would still be a rung below steve, because he was made to be "WHAT HUMANS COULD NEVER ACHIEVE WITHOUT OUTSIDE ENHANCEMENT" .
Yes, DD has comparable feats to both BP and Steve, but all 4 of these guys have comparable agility feats to Spiderman, does it mean they are on spidermans level? No, why?
Because it isnt apart of their character.
Steve is as high as a human can get without being superhuman in strength , he is as high as a human can get without being superhuman in speed, and he is as high as a human can get without being superhuman in AGILITY.
To say DD is more agile then steve, is to say DD is SUPERHUMAN, which he isnt.
Sorry, My Tier goes.
BP
Cap
DD=BM
Originally posted by Apolloknight
You see Jrod, that shows how much you know about T'challa. I'll get to Steve later but as for T'challa, He has been training in combat since he was 4 years old (think the movie 300 here). By the age of 14, he was able to take down numerous guards, without them even knowing mind you, and take on the Bonefied SuperHuman "Bull". (I wish I could find the dang issue I would post the scans). By the age of 17, T'challa had already mastered dozens of martial arts, and mastered his own unique style of wakandan martial arts (which involves aspects of animal mimicry, meaning he was crawling and leaping on all fours like a panther, which also means he had to be supremely agile before the ingestion of the herb to perform such maneuvers, and not to mention have them actually be effective in unarmed combat) which by the way, he used to take down 6 of Wakanda's greatest warriors, then take on the Current black panther (who was enhanced by the Heart shaped Herb) and defeated him.T'challa, by the age of 17, was already at Bruce and Matt's level, before Bruce and Matt were even at their current levels, which is Peak "Athlete".
The ingestion of the Herb only served to Vault T'challa past a level they will never achieve, which is the "Enhanced" or "low level" superhuman area.
Maybe im missing something here. But in my post, i mentioned Bats and DD training to get their stats physically. Youre posting about Panthers combat training and skills? As ive asked you in other debates, an you PLEASE mention the dozens of martial arts Panther mastered before he was 17. Just do that. T'Challa at 17 was already at Matt and Bruce's level? So going by your logic, he must be way past their level now huh? All i need is your conformation and im calling it a day with this. Thats the most absurd thing ive ever heard.
Originally posted by Apolloknight
You see thats the problem with you Jrod, you sit here and say, "Well, I look at DD feats and he has feats that match these guys blah blah blah, so he is on there level".Well he isn't, for the simple fact that it isn't his character. Yes it is true, Steve was but a frail boy before he took the SSS, but afterward......and pay attention here.....He became the [B]"PINNACLE OF HUMAN PERFECTION"
he became the "MOST PERFECT HUMAN ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH" in fact, the greatest athletes on the earth would still be a rung below steve, because he was made to be "WHAT HUMANS COULD NEVER ACHIEVE WITHOUT OUTSIDE ENHANCEMENT" .Yes, DD has comparable feats to both BP and Steve, but all 4 of these guys have comparable agility feats to Spiderman, does it mean they are on spidermans level? No, why?
Because it isnt apart of their character.
Steve is as high as a human can get without being superhuman in strength , he is as high as a human can get without being superhuman in speed, and he is as high as a human can get without being superhuman in AGILITY.
To say DD is more agile then steve, is to say DD is SUPERHUMAN, which he isnt.
Sorry, My Tier goes.
BP
Cap
DD=BM [/B]
Others can be to the level of Cap physically. Maybe not as all around, but it is possible, save for the endurance part maybe. You have to remember that Cap was created before most of these heroes out here. Cap was supposed to be the human with the best agility, strength, stamina a normal human can achieve. However as characters contnued to be created, they didnt pay attention to the "statistical creation" of Captain America. The creaters said "screw it" and made the DD's more agile than Cap, and the Kingpins stronger than Cap, etc.
I call a spade a spade. Of the 100's of Daredevil comics and 100's of Captain America comics, DD seems to clearly be the more agile, im going to say DD is more agile. Despite what Cap is "suppose" to be. Remember, Cap was created over half a century ago. These 4 guys have COMPARABLE agility feats to Spiderman, but Spideys agility fears are on a higher level than theirs. Thats what separates them. Who says anyone of them are as agile as Spidey? No one. But when its asked whos the closest thing to him by human standards, Daredevils name is the one whos mentioned.
Your tier is your tier.
Originally posted by jrodslam
Maybe im missing something here. But in my post, i mentioned Bats and DD training to get their stats physically. Youre posting about Panthers combat training and skills? As ive asked you in other debates, an you PLEASE mention the dozens of martial arts Panther mastered before he was 17. Just do that. T'Challa at 17 was already at Matt and Bruce's level? So going by your logic, he must be way past their level now huh? All i need is your conformation and im calling it a day with this. Thats the most absurd thing ive ever heard.Others can be to the level of Cap physically. Maybe not as all around, but it is possible, save for the endurance part maybe. You have to remember that Cap was created before most of these heroes out here. Cap was supposed to be the human with the best agility, strength, stamina a normal human can achieve. However as characters contnued to be created, they didnt pay attention to the "statistical creation" of Captain America. The creaters said "screw it" and made the DD's more agile than Cap, and the Kingpins stronger than Cap, etc.
I call a spade a spade. Of the 100's of Daredevil comics and 100's of Captain America comics, DD seems to clearly be the more agile, im going to say DD is more agile. Despite what Cap is "suppose" to be. Remember, Cap was created over half a century ago. These 4 guys have COMPARABLE agility feats to Spiderman, but Spideys agility fears are on a higher level than theirs. Thats what separates them. Who says anyone of them are as agile as Spidey? No one. But when its asked whos the closest thing to him by human standards, Daredevils name is the one whos mentioned.
Your tier is your tier.
I want to know which comic book stated that cap is "what humans could never do without outside enhancement" because that statement is bullshit because characters like michale van patrick, bruce wayne and doc savage exist and they are all as peak as cap is. Heck cap was inspired by characters like them. Bruce wayne is a character inspired by doc savage as well. They both went through a revoloutionary diet and exercise to get where their at. So bottomline where is the bullshit quote about the outside enhancement thing I mentioned earlier, which comic did you get it from? Dude apolloknight you posted it earlier so you probably know where you got it from, correct?
Back in 2005, I think Srank got it right.
Matt's pretty much the textbook definition of "peak". He's an all 'rounder that excells in virtually all areas of speed, agility, strength, speed.
While Cap, Batman, and Panther are more specialists (Cap being kind of tanky and strong, but also skilled, while Bats and Panther are prep gods with top end h2h combat skills)
Originally posted by Apolloknight
You see Jrod, that shows how much you know about T'challa. I'll get to Steve later but as for T'challa, He has been training in combat since he was 4 years old (think the movie 300 here). By the age of 14, he was able to take down numerous guards, without them even knowing mind you, and take on the Bonefied SuperHuman "Bull". (I wish I could find the dang issue I would post the scans). By the age of 17, T'challa had already mastered dozens of martial arts, and mastered his own unique style of wakandan martial arts (which involves aspects of animal mimicry, meaning he was crawling and leaping on all fours like a panther, which also means he had to be supremely agile before the ingestion of the herb to perform such maneuvers, and not to mention have them actually be effective in unarmed combat) which by the way, he used to take down 6 of Wakanda's greatest warriors, then take on the Current black panther (who was enhanced by the Heart shaped Herb) and defeated him.T'challa, by the age of 17, was already at Bruce and Matt's level, before Bruce and Matt were even at their current levels, which is Peak "Athlete".
The ingestion of the Herb only served to Vault T'challa past a level they will never achieve, which is the "Enhanced" or "low level" superhuman area.
You see thats the problem with you Jrod, you sit here and say, "Well, I look at DD feats and he has feats that match these guys blah blah blah, so he is on there level".
Well he isn't, for the simple fact that it isn't his character. Yes it is true, Steve was but a frail boy before he took the SSS, but afterward......and pay attention here.....He became the [B]"PINNACLE OF HUMAN PERFECTION"
he became the "MOST PERFECT HUMAN ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH" in fact, the greatest athletes on the earth would still be a rung below steve, because he was made to be "WHAT HUMANS COULD NEVER ACHIEVE WITHOUT OUTSIDE ENHANCEMENT" .Yes, DD has comparable feats to both BP and Steve, but all 4 of these guys have comparable agility feats to Spiderman, does it mean they are on spidermans level? No, why?
Because it isnt apart of their character.
Steve is as high as a human can get without being superhuman in strength , he is as high as a human can get without being superhuman in speed, and he is as high as a human can get without being superhuman in AGILITY.
To say DD is more agile then steve, is to say DD is SUPERHUMAN, which he isnt.
Sorry, My Tier goes.
BP
Cap
DD=BM [/B]
Read your PM bro I sent you something, oh and DD and batman are not the same, batman was always written as a peak human, the character of batman was inspired by doc savage. Doc savage is a well known peak human. Both batman and doc trained themselves to the "PINNACLE OF HUMAN PERFECTION" . Even michael van patrick became the pinnacle of human perfection the same way batman and doc did. So cap being described as what humans could never achieve without outside enhancement is a clear fallacy.
Originally posted by killerhero5712
Read your PM bro I sent you something, oh and DD and batman are not the same, batman was always written as a peak human, the character of batman was inspired by doc savage. Doc savage is a well known peak human. Both batman and doc trained themselves to the "PINNACLE OF HUMAN PERFECTION" . Even michael van patrick became the pinnacle of human perfection the same way batman and doc did. So cap being described as what humans could never achieve without outside enhancement is a clear fallacy.
Unlikely he will as he last posted here half a decade ago according to his profile.