for all this AW will win talk, i've yet to hear one AW person give an explanation as to how exactly AW would take him down. karmic blast? in the infinity watch they didn't bother hercules. i say again, herc was whooping him. check it out if you have the issue. suck SS soul? the soul gem has been resisted in the past by powerful enough foes (ie count abyss) and SS's soul is one of the brightest, noblest in the MU - as quoted by mephisto. not to mention the fact i doubt highly whether AW would even resort to trying such a desperate act. and no one can think he would take SS down by fighting him hand to hand. SS's strength could be expanded well beyond AW's. he has no psionic abilities (see his bio). SS's abilities are described as beyond comprehension. AW is superhuman and 'meta' human - below superhuman. so . . . please give me a believeable scenario where AW takes him down.
Originally posted by Gamma Crush!
It all depends. If Surfer is caught off-guard, like he was when a Kree soldier used the Infinity Soul Gem on him, he's pretty much screwed.
This isn't AW ambushes SS, it's two dudes are told they kill eachother. He look, watch 'em go!
When surfer goes all out, shit gets ****ED UP.
Originally posted by Gamma Crush!
I know Surfer is extremely powerful. However, absorbing his soul into the Infinity Soul Gem is a viable tactic for Adam.
Not considering;
A) How difficult it is for AW to absorb souls as powerful as SS
B) How much he resents using it, because it threatens his own soul
Originally posted by rotiart
Galactus tampered with Surfers soul probably because he had access to it and manipulated it before... He's left traces of himself in surfer... So I'm fairly certain that leaves some kind of back door to big g
not sure what you're getting at in terms of "back door to big g" but Galactus is immune to the soul gem.
Originally posted by kgkg
Classic Warlock would be a good fight.Current Warlock gets killed. :/
technically, current warlock is the Magus.
Originally posted by Linkalicious
I have numerous comics of Thanos and SS fighting. I MIGHT have a comic with Thanos and Warlock fighting, but odds are....he wasn't fighting Thanos 1 vs. 1.I'm not kidding you. I have the Infinity Watch, Crusade, and Guantlet series...and FROM WHAT I CAN REMEMBER...the two haven't fought. I'm sure they've fought before, but I highly doubt Warlock fought him to a standstill.
And what muscle did Warlock provide to Thanos?
Pre-Annihilation Adam Warlock was the greatest stratigic mind in Marvel. Warlock has beaten Thanos ever-time they encountered (Marvel 2-in-1 Annual #2, the whole Infinity series), not because he out-powered him, but because he out-manuvored him. Hell Warlock even gave him the Reality Gem to protect as part the Infinity Watch. You think Warlock would do that if he didn't think he could bring Thanos down?!?
If you go back and read Annihilation when moon-dragon find Warlock, and awakens him, it's too early. He wasn't fully recovered. His powers were off and his mind wasn't healed. This was Marvels way or nerfing him so he would fit on the Guardians of the Galaxy. Without that nerf, he's running that team inside two hours.
Adam Warlock (at full power) is the most dangerous person in the Marvel universe. Not Thanos. Also if you want to talk strength, Warlock, without the Soul Gem, inside Soul World, pwned Drax one on one (SS #47). It has been eluded to multiple times that Warlock is just as powerful as the Magus, but holds back so he doesn't go over the edge.
Hell we're talking about a guy who went into the future to kill himself to prevent the Magus from happening (which was recently undone in the GotG... the lost timeline Warlock tied Reality to stop the Cancerverse)... read that again, the guy tied two realities together, by himself without the soul-gem... Yeah he Pwn's the Surfer hands down!
Originally posted by Biel_Wunde
Pre-Annihilation Adam Warlock was the greatest stratigic mind in Marvel. Warlock has beaten Thanos ever-time they encountered (Marvel 2-in-1 Annual #2, the whole Infinity series), not because he out-powered him, but because he out-manuvored him. Hell Warlock even gave him the Reality Gem to protect as part the Infinity Watch. You think Warlock would do that if he didn't think he could bring Thanos down?!?If you go back and read Annihilation when moon-dragon find Warlock, and awakens him, it's too early. He wasn't fully recovered. His powers were off and his mind wasn't healed. This was Marvels way or nerfing him so he would fit on the Guardians of the Galaxy. Without that nerf, he's running that team inside two hours.
Adam Warlock (at full power) is the most dangerous person in the Marvel universe. Not Thanos. Also if you want to talk strength, Warlock, without the Soul Gem, inside Soul World, pwned Drax one on one (SS #47). It has been eluded to multiple times that Warlock is just as powerful as the Magus, but holds back so he doesn't go over the edge.
Hell we're talking about a guy who went into the future to kill himself to prevent the Magus from happening (which was recently undone in the GotG... the lost timeline Warlock tied Reality to stop the Cancerverse)... read that again, the guy tied two realities together, by himself without the soul-gem... Yeah he Pwn's the Surfer hands down!
All true except for the last line. Dangerous and "immediately powerful" are not one and the same, and Surfer's feats trump Warlock's consistently. Many of Warlock's triumphs were because of planning, not power, which is much less useful in a "Ready? Go!" fight scenario.
It's also worth mentioning that the only time Warlock was shown as definitively more powerful than Surfer was inside Soul World, where Warlock was essentially God. And it was made clear that the setting dictated the result, not their inherent power levels.
You're also pulling feats from multiple versions of Warlock, and forming them into a whole, which paints a false picture of the battle. When this was created, it was about classic Warlock, so that's probably what should be used.
It's not an easy fight, nor quick, but it has a clear victor: Surfer.
Also, helluva bump.
Originally posted by Digi
All true except for the last line. Dangerous and "immediately powerful" are not one and the same, and Surfer's feats trump Warlock's consistently. Many of Warlock's triumphs were because of planning, not power, which is much less useful in a "Ready? Go!" fight scenario.It's also worth mentioning that the only time Warlock was shown as definitively more powerful than Surfer was inside Soul World, where Warlock was essentially God. And it was made clear that the setting dictated the result, not their inherent power levels.
You're also pulling feats from multiple versions of Warlock, and forming them into a whole, which paints a false picture of the battle. When this was created, it was about classic Warlock, so that's probably what should be used.
It's not an easy fight, nor quick, but it has a clear victor: Surfer.
Also, helluva bump.
I look at it this way... Warlock is the cosmic Batman of the Marvel Universe. Batman will drop Superman, not because he's stronger, but because he's better. Warlock is just better than everyone. 🙂
Side note: It wont let me post links yet but if you check out DC's Brave and the Bold #118 Batman vs. Adam Warlock cross-over... yeah
Originally posted by Biel_Wunde
I look at it this way... Warlock is the cosmic Batman of the Marvel Universe. Batman will drop Superman, not because he's stronger, but because he's better. Warlock is just better than everyone. 🙂Side note: It wont let me post links yet but if you check out DC's Brave and the Bold #118 Batman vs. Adam Warlock cross-over... yeah
...which would be a good analogy. Except if Superman's fighting smart, even some kryptonite and a plan won't stop Batman from getting thrown into space or vaporized. In forums battles, you have to step back from the a priori style arguments that certain characters seem to lend themselves to, and actually analyze their respective power showings. Warlock is not as powerful as Surfer, in any incarnation (though some have been very close). He's wins by scheming and manipulating, albeit for good causes. But in the vaccuum that is forum fights, he doesn't have the luxury of a plan to fall back on. He has his battle cunning and powers. Which are formidable, and able to hold their own with Surfer, maybe even steal some wins, but not beat him consistently.
This is coming from a big Warlock fan who's also knowledgeable about both. It doesn't mean I'm right, but it means this is without bias.
Originally posted by Digi
...which would be a good analogy. Except if Superman's fighting smart, even some kryptonite and a plan won't stop Batman from getting thrown into space or vaporized. In forums battles, you have to step back from the a priori style arguments that certain characters seem to lend themselves to, and actually analyze their respective power showings. Warlock is not as powerful as Surfer, in any incarnation (though some have been very close). He's wins by scheming and manipulating, albeit for good causes. But in the vaccuum that is forum fights, he doesn't have the luxury of a plan to fall back on. He has his battle cunning and powers. Which are formidable, and able to hold their own with Surfer, maybe even steal some wins, but not beat him consistently.This is coming from a big Warlock fan who's also knowledgeable about both. It doesn't mean I'm right, but it means this is without bias.
By that rational, then I would defer to Marvel's official powers guide... found on their website. It ranks the abilities of all characters in six catagories from 1(lowest) to 7(highest)
Warlock
Intelligence - 5
Strength - 6
Speed - 6
Durability -7
Energy projection - 7
Fight - 6
Surfer
Intelligence - 4
Strength - 6
Speed - 7
Durability -7
Energy projection - 7
Fight - 5
By this standard, Warlock is smarter and a better fighter, while the Surfer's only advantage is speed; everything else is even.
If the argument becomes speed vs. intelligence and fighting ability. I would still take Warlock's intellect and fighting ability over the Surfer's speed.
Originally posted by Biel_Wunde
By that rational, then I would defer to Marvel's official powers guide... found on their website. It ranks the abilities of all characters in six catagories from 1(lowest) to 7(highest)[B]Warlock
Intelligence - 5
Strength - 6
Speed - 6
Durability -7
Energy projection - 7
Fight - 6Surfer
Intelligence - 4
Strength - 6
Speed - 7
Durability -7
Energy projection - 7
Fight - 5By this standard, Warlock is smarter and a better fighter, while the Surfer's only advantage is speed; everything else is even.
If the argument becomes speed vs. intelligence and fighting ability. I would still take Warlock's intellect and fighting ability over the Surfer's speed. [/B]
If you're using a Marvel power guide, we're having different conversations. Those are all outdated, often flatly erroneous, often fan-voted or publicly editable, ignored by writers, and not consistent with actual comics. For the most part, we debate based on actual in-comic showings, not numbers on a website.
So, for example, if a handbook states that a character is Class 60 strength, but he lifts a skyscraper, the site or handbook is wrong. This happens literally all the time, and is a common example. It also doesn't allow for variances within classes. By most standards, Superman and Martian Manhunter both have "incalculable" strength, but we know quite obviously which is stronger. Ratings don't allow for such nuance.
I'd also point out that, even if you're right about everything here, intellect is essentially worthless in a default forum match (which, if you're new, it would do you well to read through the forum rules to familiarize yourself with them). Surfer's feats > Warlock's, this from a Warlock fan who knows all of his showings. If you're arguing on a different basis, we're just having an incompatible conversation.
