ok, one more thing, I only said that they used Maul's eyes in the CGI animatics, not that he was Maul. He is in no way, Darth Maul. And just because a dark side user is in the employ of the Sith, Doesn't make him or her Sith. being a Sithlord involves a grasp and knowledge of the dark side that other dark warriors don't have. I doubt Grievous has any real force powers but even if he does, he's simply a dark side user, not a sith. therefore, neither he, nor Assajj Ventress, nor Sora Bulq, nor any othe dark side user violates the New Sith Code. and for the record, you forgot to count his feet, Grievous can use up to 6 saber's at a time.
Originally posted by Darth Jello
ok, one more thing, I only said that they used Maul's eyes in the CGI animatics, not that he was Maul. He is in no way, Darth Maul. And just because a dark side user is in the employ of the Sith, Doesn't make him or her Sith. being a Sithlord involves a grasp and knowledge of the dark side that other dark warriors don't have. I doubt Grievous has any real force powers but even if he does, he's simply a dark side user, not a sith. therefore, neither he, nor Assajj Ventress, nor Sora Bulq, nor any othe dark side user violates the New Sith Code. and for the record, you forgot to count his feet, Grievous can use up to 6 saber's at a time.
I am not sure where this confusion comes from, but it is not a get-out clause for the user to not be a Sith! There is nothing magical about being a Sith that means there can only be two. It is the DARK SIDE that turns against itself, not only the Sith!
The Sith happen to be the organisation that champions the Dark Side, but the theory behind the rule applies in general- if there are more than two Dark Siders, they will eventually turn on the leader with ruinous consequences. It doesn't matter a damn if the user is a fully paid-up Sith or not; the problem remains!
It is not some archaic traditional rule- it is the foundation of the only way they can survive. And the Sith- certainly under Sidious- follow that rule utterly- they would not break it, not for a third Sith, or for any form of Dark Side follower. 'Sith' is just a name of an organisation; it is the third (or more) component of an inherently destructive philosophy that is the issue.
In the Clone Wars cartoon, the get-out clause for Ventress is purely this- she is an idiot, and does not realise that Sidious' and Tyrannus' plan for her automatically involved her death. Problem solved.
Grievous is obviously a tad more important than that.
It would work if Dooku and Grievous were in competition but I really don't see that being the case.
Originally posted by Mr.Deflok
Are you being sarcastic? You can't tell any of us that Palpatine's rise to power isn't complex or clever.
Err, yes I can, it is actually a very basic piece of political theory- it just looks very intellectual in a Star Wars setting designed for kids.
It's actually one of my favourite pieces of the prequel trilogy plot but it is hardly labyrinthine.
while i am fascinated at the possibility that Grevious could be sifo-dyas, this idea falls flat in light of what we "officially" know about sifo-dyas:
The character who ordered the clones was seen onscreen in Ep2. -Pablo Hidalgo (Official Site, Webcam)
Grevious was NOT seen on screen in EPII, therefore, he cannot be sifo-dyas, the jedi who ordered the clone army. Nice theory, but it just doesnt add up. While Pablo is not GL, its the best we have at the moment. However, there is some very "weak" evidence that could conceivably support the theory right from the horses mouth:
The Jedi who ordered the clone army will be revealed in Ep3. - George Lucas
Grevious is a character "revealed" in EPIII, so it is POSSIBLE Pablo was wrong and this was GL's hint that grevious is/was sifo-dyas.
Whoever Grevious is, i think it highly likely he is a "product" of the trade federation. His features are uncannily similar to that of the droids in the trade federation army. I would propose grevious is/was a member of the species on whom the droids are based - the droids heads do NOT look like nuemodians, they look more like the race of the jedi who attacked dooku on geonosis (remember, the green jedi jango fett shot off the balconly, causing him to fall to his death). anyway, the heads are very similar. If Grevious IS a jedi we have seen, he is that jedi i mentioned before, whom we saw die in AOTC. But even that is highly unlikely.
You are correct, Pablo did say we have seen Sifo in Episode II, but that still does not completely rule out he is Grevious. I assume since most people would not volunteer to have 95% of their body replaced by robotics, whatever ill fate happened to Grevious while he was 100% organic was so catasphrophic that perhaps almost nothing was left of him. That being said, it is quite possible that we have seen Grevious/Sifo in episode II, we just did not recognize him. A lot could have happened between Episode II and III.
No matter if my theory is correct or not, I still think Grevious at one point was a Jedi. That would help explain his lightsaber affinity.
the sith are an elite society, other dark side users are simply wannabees. I'm not sure, but i think the main difference involves being able to mask your pressence in the force and to use lightning.
anyway, what I really don't buy is the theory that Grievous was a droid who incorperated living tissue into his makeup. that just makes no sense to me. Grievous is obviously someone who got seriously f&cked up by the Jedi and holds a grudge. whoever built, and continues to build him is probably the same person who designed Vader. I also heard that he is "in the loop", and that his lightsaber skills were taught by both Tyranus and Sidious.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Well, it is the designers, rather than random fans, who said he might be the droid first with organic bits tacked on...Lightning cannot be Sith only or they would have identified Dooku as a Sith; they have not.
Right, Dooku and Yoda fought, and Dooku used lightning. When Yoda experienced the lightning, he didn't say "Whoah! Lightning! You must be a Sith." He DID say, after absorbing the lightning, "...the dark side I sense in you", as if the lightning was just incidental and not necessarily an indicator of being a Sith.
As far as the Grievous argument goes, I still stand behind my assertion that Grievous contains the remnants of either a Jedi or a Sith. What better fighting machine AND leader would there be than a droid with the knowledge and abilities of either a Sith or a Jedi?
corn
why is it that everyone thinks there is a difference between having the dark side in you and being a sith? Technically, there IS a difference. Its the same difference as "having the light side in you" and being a Jedi. There are three categories to chose from:
1. If you have force ability, you are either simply force sensitive and were not discovered by the jedi or too old to begin training.
2. the Light side is in you - you are a jedi
3. the dark side is in you - you are a sith
To progress beyond simply being force sensitive, you have to be TAUGHT one side or the other, light or dark. Yodas comment that he sensed the dark side in Dooku is NOT evidence yoda didnt think he was associated with the sith. In fact, the dialog in the jedi chambers near the end of the movie gives evidence to the contrary. Yoda knew Dooku was a sith, he just didnt come out and say, "i sense you are a sith." guys, we have to remember, these are just movies and part of movies is having good dialog. Yoda knew Dooku was a sith. Hell, the look on Obiwans face shows he suspects in when Dooku tells him, "together, we will destroy the sith!"
Inocrrect, Bigsef, I am afraid. You are not a Sith unless you are accepted as a Sith. It is an organisation you must be a member of.
Same as a Jedi- you can be as Light Side as you want, but if you are not a member of the organisation called the Jedi, you are not a Jedi.
When Dooku left the Jedi, it was assumed he was still a lightsider, but NOT a Jedi as he had left the Order.
Now they think he has turned to the dark side- NOT that he is a Sith. They are not irrevocably tied.
These are names of organisations- not states of being. That should be fairly obvious- as we know, there can only be two Sith. That's not a limit on how many people can fall to the Dark Side, is it? It just means the Sith themselves will only accept two among their number. That they would also destroy any rivals is by the by.
Seriously, this is important, and the website comments on it- the Jedi have NOT identified Dooku as a Sith, like we the viewers have, and this is part of the plotline. They just think he has gone bad. You are very much misleading yourself if you think that THEY think what WE know. The very final reveal of Episode II tells the audience that he is a Sith... something the Jedi have not yet sussed.
The Jedi are very anxious to find the Sith- they WOULD have pointed out Dooku as who they have been looking for if they had made a positive id.
the characters in the movie are NOT stupid. and we have to remember, this is ONLY a movie. We arent supposed to compare every little thing to how our own real world works. but the jedi aren't that stupid. they knew there was a master and an apprentice, they knew obiwan killed one of them on naboo. further, they know the SITH are behind what is going on. When obiw