Originally posted by Jury
I didn't even imagine that "New Lighter" is a church/religion. Our Church is not a descendant of Rome. The Roman Church is the prophesied "Great Apostacy" thing.
It is a Church, but it is not a true one.
Tell me more about your religion.
Are there any other members on this forum, if so I would like to ask them a question?
Is there a name for your Church?
Originally posted by Jury
The BIble has given me that concept - the words of God Himself.
Originally posted by ShakyamunisonSorry, I don't know somebody here. OUr Church was named after Christ. 🙂
It is a Church, but it is not a true one.Tell me more about your religion.
Are there any other members on this forum, if so I would like to ask them a question?
Is there a name for your Church?
Church of Christ.
Originally posted by xmarksthespotIf you don't believe that God's words were recorded in the Bible in the first place, then we don't have something to discuss. And I didn't presume to know the will of God. He revealed it to us. 🙂
You assume The Bible is written as the word of god when you've stated several times that the devil will try and deceive you and God's followers. How do you determine that the words and concepts aren't the devil's?
Even if those are the words of a god, how do you determine that you interpret them correctly? How do you determine that since those words have been written the god will not alter his opinions, and thus that your opinions are no longer in concordance with said god.
Presumption of absolute knowledge of the motives and intentions of anyone else is arrogant. You presume to know the will of a god.
You assert a claim in absence of positive evidence. Ergo you assume.
In making this assertion of truth you fail to take into account your other assertion, that the devil is deceptive.
Statement of fact is 'leading'?
There is past precedent of you evading questions posed to you, one of the logical conclusions one may draw from this behaviour is that you are incapable of answering them. If you can answer my questions then do so.
Originally posted by xmarksthespotOkay, for the sake of the quite-off-topic discussion, I believe with strong faith [not assuming] as how the prophets of God and the apostles of Christ had presented it, that the Words written in the Holy Scriptures are truly from God. Yes, I know I can't prove it to you myself. I'm not in the 'position' to prove it, I should say. The Bible is speaking for itself. All we can do first is listen. But most people fail to succeed from that because what they hear and/or read from the Bible is not itching to their ears.
You assume The Bible is written as the word of god when you've stated several times that the devil will try and deceive you and God's followers.
How do you determine that the words and concepts aren't the devil's?No man can ever know that. Not you. Not me. But the words of God written in the Bible especially the prophecies and the testimonies of Jesus were fulfilled and are still fulfilling today. And the people of God serve as the witnesses of these fulfillments and revelations.
Even if those are the words of a god, how do you determine that you interpret them correctly?Those were the words of God [our Father]. We don't interpret them. I can't interpret them. I don't have the position to do so. It is in accordance to God's will. We let the Bible interpret for itself. One verse of the Bible can have its own interpretation hidden in other verses. That's the mystery everyone doesn't know. Self-study of the Bible is not suggested to the people of God since God has sent His messengers before them.
How do you determine that since those words have been written the god will not alter his opinions, and thus that your opinions are no longer in concordance with said god.Our God doesn't give His opinions. He commands. He proclaims. He declares. He judges. And His words are firm. Unchangeable by anybody. But of course, He can supersede them by Himself... for the sake of His people's salvation. He will not change His words, that's what He said.
Presumption of absolute knowledge of the motives and intentions of anyone else is arrogant. You presume to know the will of a god.What I've learned all comes from our God. He gave me wisdom. And I never presume I knew what really the will of God is. He revealed it through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Originally posted by xmarksthespotEvidences were all clear. It's just you who can't see them. It's you who chose to be close-minded and be blind and be lack of faith. God never stops you from what you choose to do. Even you choose not to believe in Him, well, it's your choice. So, why care for the believers? What keeps you questioning their belief? 🙂
You assert a claim in absence of positive evidence. Ergo you assume.
In making this assertion of truth you fail to take into account your other assertion, that the devil is deceptive.Statement of fact is 'leading'?
There is past precedent of you evading questions posed to you, one of the logical conclusions one may draw from this behaviour is that you are incapable of answering them. If you can answer my questions then do so.
Originally posted by Jury
Okay, for the sake of the quite-off-topic discussion, I believe with strong faith [not assuming] as how the prophets of God and the apostles of Christ had presented it, that the Words written in the Holy Scriptures are truly from God. Yes, I know I can't prove it to you myself. I'm not in the 'position' to prove it, I should say. The Bible is speaking for itself. All we can do first is listen. But most people fail to succeed from that because what they hear and/or read from the Bible is not itching to their ears.
Originally posted by Jury
No man can ever know that. Not you. Not me. But the words of God written in the Bible especially the prophecies and the testimonies of Jesus were fulfilled and are still fulfilling today. And the people of God serve as the witnesses of these fulfillments and revelations.
Originally posted by Jury
Those were the words of God [our Father]. We don't interpret them. I can't interpret them. I don't have the position to do so. It is in accordance to God's will. We let the Bible interpret for itself. One verse of the Bible can have its own interpretation hidden in other verses. That's the mystery everyone doesn't know. Self-study of the Bible is not suggested to the people of God since God has sent His messengers before them.
Originally posted by Jury
Our God doesn't give His opinions. He commands. He proclaims. He declares. He judges. And His words are firm. Unchangeable by anybody. But of course, He can supersede them by Himself... for the sake of His people's salvation. He will not change His words, that's what He said.
Originally posted by Jury
What I've learned all comes from our God. He gave me wisdom. And I never presume I knew what really the will of God is. He revealed it through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Originally posted by Jury
Evidences were all clear. It's just you who can't see them. It's you who chose to be close-minded and be blind and be lack of faith. God never stops you from what you choose to do. Even you choose not to believe in Him, well, it's your choice. So, why care for the believers? What keeps you questioning their belief?
Originally posted by xmarksthespotSorry, if you misunderstood the metaphorical statement I made there.
Anthropomorphism. A book does not speak. It has words within them that are read. All words, written and spoken, are open to interpretation. Do you read the entirety of The Bible literally? If so, do you wear clothes made of more than one fabric? If not then you are interpreting, and making the assumption that your interpretation is the correct one.
I have never claimed to know whether or not a god exists. You have in prior posts.This is not what I mean with what you had quoted.
Again anthropomorphism and assumption.I respect your opinion.
Assumption. You speak on behalf of another once again. Are you saying that he is incapable of changing his "commands".I didn't say He is incapable of changing His words. It is God's will not to change His words. That's what I've learned from the Bible.
You've made many presumptions and that one is among them. Wisdom is not something that is given. It is something that must be acquired through experience.Yes, that's Human Wisdom. But as a True servant of God, I believe that everything I have now including life, blessings and sufferings all came from God. The Knowledge of God's Words [the Spiritual Wisdom] cannot be acquired by personal experiences and human understanding. It must come from the Spirit of God.
I'm close-minded? Hypocritical as always.Okay, you are not. Forgive me.
You really should do some introspection. I don't recall I've ever denied the possibility of the existence of a god anywhere on this forum. I don't question their beliefs unless I conclude they are factually inaccurate or they act like pretentious fools. You are of the latter.I respect whatever you call me. It doesn't matter. As long as I trunly know where I came from, what truly I am now, what I supposed to do, where I truly be going, and what will happen to me after this earthly life. I've learned this from God. And I owe it to Him.
I live to serve Him. 🙂
I know it was a metaphor. However that metaphor was incongruous with the rest of your post where you state you do not interpret the book. Reading and listening is all a matter of comprehension and interpretation unless every single word is taken literally, and even then many words have a multitude of denotations and connotations. Yours is merely one interpretation of the words written.
"the ravenous bird"..."from the ends of the earth"... "the angel from the rising of the sun"... "the third angel (the last among the three) of Revelation"... "the angel with the seal of God ascending from the east"... "the angel who gathers the sons and daughters of God from the east"... "the people who worship God from the islands of the sea"... "the sheep of Christ from a far country"... "the third group of Christ's flock"... "a flock from the future"... "the children of God from the ends of the earth". Have you read these prophecies from the Bible?
Originally posted by Jury
"the ravenous bird"..."from the ends of the earth"... "the angel from the rising of the sun"... "the third angel (the last among the three) of Revelation"... "the angel with the seal of God ascending from the east"... "the angel who gathers the sons and daughters of God from the east"... "the people who worship God from the islands of the sea"... "the sheep of Christ from a far country"... "the third group of Christ's flock"... "a flock from the future"... "the children of God from the ends of the earth". Have you read these prophecies from the Bible?
You may not know what a New Lighter is but what you are saying is the same thing.
Originally posted by Jury
"the ravenous bird"..."from the ends of the earth"... "the angel from the rising of the sun"... "the third angel (the last among the three) of Revelation"... "the angel with the seal of God ascending from the east"... "the angel who gathers the sons and daughters of God from the east"... "the people who worship God from the islands of the sea"... "the sheep of Christ from a far country"... "the third group of Christ's flock"... "a flock from the future"... "the children of God from the ends of the earth". Have you read these prophecies from the Bible?
Sounds a little like Armstrong...the ravenous bird I've read in Job and Isaiah, but I don't recall any verses talking about the people who worship god from the islands of the sea...I think these verses are taken out of context...Maybe some different translation, not KJV.
Originally posted by debbiejo
Sounds a little like Armstrong...the ravenous bird I've read in Job and Isaiah, but I don't recall any verses talking about the people who worship god from the islands of the sea...I think these verses are taken out of context...Maybe some different translation, not KJV.
I think it's from the Greek bible.
I'm not sure what translation...here are a few.
JOB
That path no bird of prey knows, neither has the falcon's eye seen it. (WEB)
That path no bird of prey knoweth, Neither hath the falcon's eye seen it: (ASV)
No bird has knowledge of it, and the hawk's eye has never seen it. (BBE)
It is a path no bird of prey knoweth, and the vulture's eye hath not seen it; (DBY)
There is a path which no fowl knoweth, and which the vulture's eye hath not seen: (KJV)
There is a path which no fowl knoweth, and which the vultur's eye hath not seen: (WBS)
That path no bird of prey knoweth, neither hath the falcon's eye seen it; (JPS)
A path -- not known it hath a ravenous fowl, Nor scorched it hath an eye of the kite, (YLT)
Or ISAIAH 46
46:11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken [it], I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed [it], I will also do it.
46:12 Hearken unto me, ye stouthearted, that [are] far from righteousness:
46:13 I bring near my righteousness; it shall not be far off, and my salvation shall not tarry: and I will place salvation in Zion for Israel my glory.
But this was all historical.....
Look!...I made red.. 😄