Galactus vs Apocolypsevs Unicron??

Originally posted by Galan007
👆
http://imgur.com/sBjzOoz
http://imgur.com/ZzY2zjs
http://imgur.com/NJppj0I

But to be fair...
a.) We can't really say how long it took him to accomplish that feat. Based on the *other* retelling, it certainly wasn't instantaneous.
b.) He wasn't overly thorough when he consumed said creation, as fragments of the old realmS(plural) still existed in the wake of his frenzy--this is how the second Transformers-verse was ultimately created.

Could be in reference to this:
http://imgur.com/1OWxTZw
"You speak of a future that may or may not come to pass. A Unicron I may or may not become... With each action we create alternate timelines, where events proceed in their own unique fashion. I simply poached you from one of my possible futures."

It's also worth noting that back in the day, terms like "Omniversal Matrix" were used within the Transformers-universe--Primus himself sought to unite with it, in fact:
http://imgur.com/X0nTTVE

...And like you said, there was also this fairly explicit mentioning of a multiverse during 'Cybertron, Balancing Act':
http://imgur.com/HBn4MhW
http://imgur.com/wrx5j3J
http://imgur.com/BUuILDW

Anyway, I wanted to highlight this portion of my last scan:

After all of that typing and editing, Galan, Apocalypse still stomps.

Yeah, but that goes w/o saying.

Galactus eats them.

Originally posted by Galan007
👆
http://imgur.com/sBjzOoz
http://imgur.com/ZzY2zjs
http://imgur.com/NJppj0I

But to be fair...
a.) We can't really say how long it took him to accomplish that feat. Based on the *other* retelling, it certainly wasn't instantaneous.
b.) He wasn't overly thorough when he consumed said creation, as fragments of the old realmS(plural) still existed in the wake of his frenzy--this is how the second Transformers-verse was ultimately created.

Good points. And that's why i didn't really emphasize on this, because that "feat" is hard to gauge when we don't know the specifics.

Originally posted by Galan007

Could be in reference to this:
http://imgur.com/1OWxTZw
"You speak of a future that may or may not come to pass. A Unicron I may or may not become... With each action we create alternate timelines, where events proceed in their own unique fashion. I simply poached you from one of my possible futures."

Nah, that's Unicron telling Galvatron that it was an alternate version of him (as opposed to being actually him) who betrayed him. An alternate timeline. Like the one we saw 2 issues prior:

http://i.imgur.com/2cvyHXs.jpg

That's also not the only alternate version of Unicron shown in Marvel.
---

That's quite different from Unicron spreading his "entirety" throughout the dimensions.

Like i said this idea is most likely from another continuity. Like the one shown in Transformers Cybertron Balancing acts:

http://i.imgur.com/m4geBXw.jpg

"the Unicron singularity will replicate itself in dimension after dimension"

That imo, is what translates to "spreading his entirety throughout many realities.

Originally posted by Galan007

It's also worth noting that back in the day, terms like "Omniversal Matrix" were used within the Transformers-universe--Primus himself sought to unite with it, in fact:
http://imgur.com/X0nTTVE

👆

Originally posted by Galan007

...And like you said, there was also this fairly explicit mentioning of a multiverse during 'Cybertron, Balancing Act':
http://imgur.com/HBn4MhW
http://imgur.com/wrx5j3J
http://imgur.com/BUuILDW

Originally posted by Galan007
I wanted to highlight this portion of my last scan:

Those are not in the mainstream Marvel continuity though. Which is why i mentioned that the handbook (pertaining the mainstream Marvel continuity) probably got the idea from other continuities (like the balancing acts story)

Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah, but that goes w/o saying.

😂

Regarding "mainstream" Transformers' standing (whether it's a universe or a multiverse), it's a multiverse (separated from the mainstream Marvel multiverse but within the megaverse as confirmed in Marvunapp) from what ive seen. There are several references to alternate timelines, parallel realities. Here's one example from Transformers UK (previous post of mine).

Transformers UK #87 references parallel dimensions (time-travel may end up in a parallel dimension)

http://i.imgur.com/auPPBCI.jpg?1

Same thing next issue:

http://i.imgur.com/h7AAZjr.jpg?1

(there are many other examples)

Handbooks:

In the Transformers Ultimate Guide, The Unicron/Primus bios (pertaining Marvel Continuity) reference countless parallel realities:

http://i.imgur.com/RbeRdM8.jpg?1

http://i.imgur.com/9q3dOEc.jpg?1

Originally posted by operator616
Nah, that's Unicron telling Galvatron that it was an alternate version of him (as opposed to being actually him) who betrayed him. An alternate timeline. Like the one we saw 2 issues prior:

http://i.imgur.com/2cvyHXs.jpg

That's also not the only alternate version of Unicron shown in Marvel.
---

That's quite different from Unicron spreading his "entirety" throughout the dimensions.

Like i said this idea is most likely from another continuity. Like the one shown in Transformers Cybertron Balancing acts:

http://i.imgur.com/m4geBXw.jpg

"the Unicron singularity will replicate itself in dimension after dimension"

That imo, is what translates to "spreading his entirety throughout many realities.

Originally posted by operator616
Those are not in the mainstream Marvel continuity though. Which is why i mentioned that the handbook (pertaining the mainstream Marvel continuity) probably got the idea from other continuities (like the balancing acts story)

^ 👆

I must add: my post above, was merely to further confirm that a multiverse exists in the mainstream Transformers continuity. You provided some yourself as well, so you deserve some credit.

Tbh the single best evidence that it was a multiverse under Marvel(aside from explicit references) is the fact that characters like Spider-Man appeared in a few of the issues. This tells us it was meant to take place within the prime Marvel continuum which, back in the 80's, was unarguably a multiverse.

As for the credit, I could care less. Thanks, though.

Originally posted by Galan007
Tbh the single best evidence that it was a multiverse under Marvel(aside from explicit references) is the fact that characters like Spider-Man appeared in a few of the issues. This tells us it was meant to take place within the prime Marvel continuum which, back in the 80's, was unarguably a multiverse.

It's actually not within the prime/mainstream Marvel muttiverse. It's separate.

Those Spiderman (and other characters appeared as well) are just stupid. Because Transformers was always meant to be separate. That's why there is no Eternity or Infinity or Galactus (etc...) there (while in any alternate reality within the mainstream multiverse, there are). That's why it's a separate multiverse:

http://www.marvunapp.com/list/app8162.htm

Go to the bottom, it reads:

On the other hand, due to the fact that the hierarchy of cosmic characters of both Transformers universes [Unicron, Primus] does not mesh with the usual Marvel assortment of cosmic beings [Eternity, Death, Galactus, Lord Chaos, Master Order, etc.] one could place them in the Marvel Megaverse along with such tertiary realms as Earth-Shadowline.

Either way those mainstream characters appearing in the Transformers universe is nonsense since it's definitely not in 616 reality, it's designated as Earth-120185 (and that doesn't mean it's just a universe, there are other multiverses who have a single designation but are undeniably a multiverse):

http://i.imgur.com/3Bkfy3m.jpg?1

You may think it's nonsense, but the intent was clear--the T-U was, at least originally, meant to take place within the mainstream Marvel multiverse.

That's why issue #3 shows us Spider-Man, Nick Fury, Joe Robertson--and also references The Daily Bugle, SHIELD, etc. That's why there's a notation at the bottom of the page that states "This story takes place before Spider-Man #258.":
http://imgur.com/wmunhbj

On-panel trumps bios and weberdence.

Originally posted by Galan007
You may think it's nonsense, but the intent was clear--the T-U was, at least originally, meant to take place within the mainstream Marvel multiverse.

👆

and i for one LOVED those old books. i thought having heroes pop up on occasion was great.

Originally posted by Galan007
You may think it's nonsense, but the intent was clear--the T-U was, at least originally, meant to take place within the mainstream Marvel multiverse.

That's why issue #3 shows us Spider-Man, Nick Fury, Joe Robertson--and also references The Daily Bugle, SHIELD, etc. That's why there's a notation at the bottom of the page that states "This story takes place before Spider-Man #258.":
http://imgur.com/wmunhbj

On-panel trumps bios and weberdence.

I don't agree.

I told you that this instance doesn't change my mind, not in the very least. I know of it and ive noticed that kind of shit happen before.

1) Now, observe how Merlyn (same one who's associated with Captain Britain) appears in a Doctor Who comic which is meant to take place in a separate multiverse:

The Daredevils #10, we know Merlyn has certain aspects through which he acts:

http://i.imgur.com/UbpCBCh.jpg?2

Pay close attention this particular aspect:

http://i.imgur.com/UbpCBCh.jpg?3

Now observe, how this same aspect appears in Doctor Who (monthly) Magazine comics. Here are two scans from issue #60:

http://i.imgur.com/JRORN1f.jpg?1
http://i.imgur.com/m4uEpgC.jpg?1

See? (don't tell me that Merlyn is different from the heroes, because he's not. He shouldn't pop up in a completely separate and totally unrelated continuity).

So another character (who's supposed to be centered in mainstream marvel multiverse), appeared in an entirely separate continuity/multiverse (I have several Doctor Who comics acknowledging other multiverseS, and referencing the omniverse several times).

I also have direct references from Captain Britain and MI13, to certain characters from the Doctor Who multiverse (which should have no relation whatsoever with the mainstream multiverse).

There are more examples. I can post them, if you want.
-----------------------------------

2) Now that we established that this kind of nonsense has happened in other continuities as well. Consider this:

The Transformers multiverse has a completely separate cosmic hierarchy, it's own creation story (with no Eternity or Infinity) or any other mainstream Marvel cosmic beings.

That's why Marvunapp (Snood's argument) says:

Transformers and Gi Joe will only be part of the Marvel multiverse once they run into Galactus, the Watcher, Eternity, etc...

Hmm, is that true? Yes it is! 3 Separate Handbooks confirm this long established fact:

2006 Handbook (LT's bio):

realms lacking the hierarchy of power are outside of the multiverse :

http://i.imgur.com/kW3ijee.jpg?1

2005 handbooks:

outside of the multiverse ......... these realms lack the cosmic being hierarchy of the mainstream multiverse:

http://i.imgur.com/cldF2nP.jpg?1

Same handbook:

Earth shadowline lacks the universal structure and hierarchy of Earth-616 or similar words, and thus it would be considered outside the mainstream multiverse :

http://i.imgur.com/5njhq1p.jpg?1

I mean, think about it. Transformers is generally dissociated from the mainstream multiverse, always has been. The official handbook gave it a designation # (at least to confirm that it's a separate reality and not the same as the 616 one). That's why you don't see Transformers characters having bio entries in the OHOTMU, that's why you don't see mainstream cosmic beings in the Transformers multiverse.

Makes perfect sense.

....Unless what you want a reference in a Transformers comic saying that "these events take place in another multiverse"....no, that's not how it works, nobody does that.

The first time Earth-Shadowline ever appeared (confirmed to be a reality beyond the multiverse), in Doctor Zero it never said something like "in another universe", the handbook clarified that, because Earth-Shadowline had no cosmic hierarchy, no gods, nothing. Only Shadow dwellers. Same thing goes to other titles such as DP7...it doesn't start with something like "in another universe/multiverse".....nope.
-----------------------------------

3) One last thing:

Those instances you highlighted makes no sense however you look at it. Because the 2006 handbook officially designated the Transformers UK (Spidey and the others appeared in issue #4, remember this is UK) as a completely separate reality:

http://i.imgur.com/3Bkfy3m.jpg?1

So, does this make sense to anyone here? (especially with the example provided above)

I know the text is a bit too long, but anyone who reads it, can understand why i think Transformers is separate from the mainstream multiverse.

....Is this a Bronies thread?

Uni

Originally posted by operator616
I don't agree.

I told you that this instance doesn't change my mind, not in the very least. I know of it and ive noticed that kind of shit happen before.

1) Now, observe [B]how Merlyn (same one who's associated with Captain Britain) appears in a Doctor Who comic which is meant to take place in a separate multiverse:

The Daredevils #10, we know Merlyn has certain aspects through which he acts:

http://i.imgur.com/UbpCBCh.jpg?2

Pay close attention this particular aspect:

http://i.imgur.com/UbpCBCh.jpg?3

Now observe, how this same aspect appears in Doctor Who (monthly) Magazine comics. Here are two scans from issue #60:

http://i.imgur.com/JRORN1f.jpg?1
http://i.imgur.com/m4uEpgC.jpg?1

See? (don't tell me that Merlyn is different from the heroes, because he's not. He shouldn't pop up in a completely separate and totally unrelated continuity).

So another character (who's supposed to be centered in mainstream marvel multiverse), appeared in an entirely separate continuity/multiverse (I have several Doctor Who comics acknowledging other multiverseS, and referencing the omniverse several times).

I also have direct references from Captain Britain and MI13, to certain characters from the Doctor Who multiverse (which should have no relation whatsoever with the mainstream multiverse).

There are more examples. I can post them, if you want.
-----------------------------------

2) Now that we established that this kind of nonsense has happened in other continuities as well. Consider this:

The Transformers multiverse has a completely separate cosmic hierarchy, it's own creation story (with no Eternity or Infinity) or any other mainstream Marvel cosmic beings.

That's why Marvunapp (Snood's argument) says:

Transformers and Gi Joe will only be part of the Marvel multiverse once they run into Galactus, the Watcher, Eternity, etc...

Hmm, is that true? Yes it is! 3 Separate Handbooks confirm this long established fact:

2006 Handbook (LT's bio):

realms lacking the hierarchy of power are outside of the multiverse :

http://i.imgur.com/kW3ijee.jpg?1

2005 handbooks:

outside of the multiverse ......... these realms lack the cosmic being hierarchy of the mainstream multiverse:

http://i.imgur.com/cldF2nP.jpg?1

Same handbook:

Earth shadowline lacks the universal structure and hierarchy of Earth-616 or similar words, and thus it would be considered outside the mainstream multiverse :

http://i.imgur.com/5njhq1p.jpg?1

I mean, think about it. Transformers is generally dissociated from the mainstream multiverse, always has been. The official handbook gave it a designation # (at least to confirm that it's a separate reality and not the same as the 616 one). That's why you don't see Transformers characters having bio entries in the OHOTMU, that's why you don't see mainstream cosmic beings in the Transformers multiverse.

Makes perfect sense.

....Unless what you want a reference in a Transformers comic saying that "these events take place in another multiverse"....no, that's not how it works, nobody does that.

The first time Earth-Shadowline ever appeared (confirmed to be a reality beyond the multiverse), in Doctor Zero it never said something like "in another universe", the handbook clarified that, because Earth-Shadowline had no cosmic hierarchy, no gods, nothing. Only Shadow dwellers. Same thing goes to other titles such as DP7...it doesn't start with something like "in another universe/multiverse".....nope.
-----------------------------------

3) One last thing:

Those instances you highlighted makes no sense however you look at it. Because the 2006 handbook officially designated the Transformers UK (Spidey and the others appeared in issue #4, remember this is UK) as a completely separate reality:

http://i.imgur.com/3Bkfy3m.jpg?1

So, does this make sense to anyone here? (especially with the example provided above)

I know the text is a bit too long, but anyone who reads it, can understand why i think Transformers is separate from the mainstream multiverse. [/B]

Once more, the original intent was crystal clear: the T-U was meant to co-exist in mainstream Marvel. I know this because: a.) Spider-Man and Nick Fury(who appeared in the issue) cannot dimension-hop, and b.) Because a canon/mainstream comic was specifically cited in the issue itself:

You can't ignore that.

^ "Ignore"....Okay, Let's try this the other way around, shall we (hopefully you'll realize that im simply looking at the bigger picture, which is why i chose to dismiss the instance):

So, im willing to set aside the other continuities per your request (and only stick to Transformers), even though it's a valid counterargument but ok, ill play along...

There are plenty of things to contradict that it's not on Earth-616, first of all, Transformers UK is outright designated as being Earth-120185 rather than Earth-616 (you can't ignore that either):

http://i.imgur.com/3Bkfy3m.jpg?1

That said...I dunno, let me think of a random contradictory example.....something like Transformers Generation 2 (in Marvel continuity) involving an attack from Decepticons on Earth (told in "Tales of Earth" from issue #4 till #12)

On panel, San Francisco getting utterly obliterated in Transformers Generation 2 #11

http://i.imgur.com/rNF11KT.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/guW2KHX.jpg

An entire portion of the Earth gets obliterated:

http://i.imgur.com/qz8n3Sr.jpg?1

....Yet nobody on Earth-616 notices/gets involved/references/gives a damn. 😂 seems legit.....better yet:

Confirmation that San Francisco was still intact on Earth 616 from X-Men's title published a few months after the Transformers cataclysmic event:

(not that it needs to be proven, i just like to be thorough).

http://i.imgur.com/uMEFXTx.jpg?1

Or let's say something like this....from Transformers US #17:

http://i.imgur.com/266hdIn.jpg?1

Soundwave says that the planet Earth (which they intend to conquer) is full of humans that are inferior to the Transformers in every way , and the only force capable of posing a threat to them is Optimus and his team (because it's not like Earth/planet-616 is filled with Superheroes, that are more than capable of handling the Decepticons)

Sure, let's forget about all of the Superheroes that are present on Earth-616.....because you know, the best defense Earth has without Optimus are humans!!!

See where im coming from? (Those are just 2 examples, but i hope you get the point)

Ask yourself this:

Is it a coincidence that no single Transformers issue served as a tie-in to a Marvel event?

Is it a coincidence that no single Transformers character has an official bio in the OHOTMU?

Is it a coincidence that no single character appeared/thing appeared after issue #8 ever again, with no hints/references/anything?

Is it a coincidence that the mainstream cosmic beings of Marvel don't exist in the Transformers multiverse? Believe it or not, this is the basic rule for a reality/multiverse to be outside the mainstream. Like in Quasar #31, the Watcher says that there are Watchers throughout the entire multiverse, but outside the multiverse, no Wacthers exist:

http://i.imgur.com/NgeUBtd.jpg?1

(Just like there are no Watchers in the Transformers reality)

3 handbooks back it up, and that's a basic rule.

---------------------------------------
I told you that there was no doubt in my mind that it's separate, and i stand by that opinion. When one reads Transformers it becomes crystal clear that it's meant to be separate from the mainstream continuity. Im sure you've read enough to realize that.

I hope you can see by now that im simply trying to make sense of this continuity mess. Which after that awful beginning, got ignored and forgotten....as it should be.

----------------------------------------

Btw, i just noticed: My 1st Merlyn scan is from Daredevils #1, not #10 (added the "0" by mistake), just so that nobody gets the wrong info.

Originally posted by ~The Wickerman~
Pretty much everything Evo is stronger than the comic equivalent.

😂

What a load of bullsh*t...

Originally posted by operator616
^ "Ignore"....Okay, Let's try this the other way around, shall we (hopefully you'll realize that im simply looking at the bigger picture, which is why i chose to dismiss the instance):

So, im willing to set aside the other continuities per your request (and only stick to Transformers), even though it's a valid counterargument but ok, ill play along...

There are plenty of things to contradict that it's not on Earth-616, first of all, Transformers UK is outright designated as being Earth-120185 rather than Earth-616 (you can't ignore that either):

http://i.imgur.com/3Bkfy3m.jpg?1

That said...I dunno, let me think of a random contradictory example.....something like Transformers Generation 2 (in Marvel continuity) involving an attack from Decepticons on Earth (told in "Tales of Earth" from issue #4 till #12)

On panel, San Francisco getting utterly obliterated in Transformers Generation 2 #11

http://i.imgur.com/rNF11KT.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/guW2KHX.jpg

An entire portion of the Earth gets obliterated:

http://i.imgur.com/qz8n3Sr.jpg?1

....Yet nobody on Earth-616 notices/gets involved/references/gives a damn. 😂 seems legit.....better yet:

Confirmation that San Francisco was still intact on Earth 616 from X-Men's title published a few months after the Transformers cataclysmic event:

(not that it needs to be proven, i just like to be thorough).

http://i.imgur.com/uMEFXTx.jpg?1

Or let's say something like this....from Transformers US #17:

http://i.imgur.com/266hdIn.jpg?1

Soundwave says that the planet Earth (which they intend to conquer) is full of humans that are inferior to the Transformers in every way , and the only force capable of posing a threat to them is Optimus and his team (because it's not like Earth/planet-616 is filled with Superheroes, that are more than capable of handling the Decepticons)

Sure, let's forget about all of the Superheroes that are present on Earth-616.....because you know, the best defense Earth has without Optimus are humans!!!

See where im coming from? (Those are just 2 examples, but i hope you get the point)

Ask yourself this:

Is it a coincidence that no single Transformers issue served as a tie-in to a Marvel event?

Is it a coincidence that no single Transformers character has an official bio in the OHOTMU?

Is it a coincidence that no single character appeared/thing appeared after issue #8 ever again, with no hints/references/anything?

Is it a coincidence that the mainstream cosmic beings of Marvel don't exist in the Transformers multiverse? Believe it or not, this is the basic rule for a reality/multiverse to be outside the mainstream. Like in Quasar #31, the Watcher says that there are Watchers throughout the entire multiverse, but outside the multiverse, no Wacthers exist:

http://i.imgur.com/NgeUBtd.jpg?1

(Just like there are no Watchers in the Transformers reality)

3 handbooks back it up, and that's a basic rule.

---------------------------------------
I told you that there was no doubt in my mind that it's separate, and i stand by that opinion. When one reads Transformers it becomes crystal clear that it's meant to be separate from the mainstream continuity. Im sure you've read enough to realize that.

I hope you can see by now that im simply trying to make sense of this continuity mess. Which after that awful beginning, got ignored and forgotten....as it should be.

----------------------------------------

Btw, i just noticed: My 1st Merlyn scan is from Daredevils #1, not #10 (added the "0" by mistake), just so that nobody gets the wrong info.

That's why Nick Fury, Joe Robertson, Spider-Man, etc. appeared in the issue:

That's why a separate canon/mainstream comic was directly cited in the issue:

Would you have me believe that this one issue is inextricably non-canon simply because of your dot-connecting? Sorry, but it doesn't work that way. Granted, the T-U's canonicity to mainstream Marvel may have changed over the years(never said otherwise), but originally it was most certainly intended to be part of the same creation. The evidence is incontrovertible.