Galactus vs Apocolypsevs Unicron??

Originally posted by operator616
I don't agree.

1) Now, observe how Merlyn (same one who's associated with Captain Britain) appears in a Doctor Who comic which is meant to take place in a separate multiverse:

The Daredevils #10, we know Merlyn has certain aspects through which he acts:
http://i.imgur.com/UbpCBCh.jpg?2

Pay close attention this particular aspect:
http://i.imgur.com/UbpCBCh.jpg?3

Now observe, how this same aspect appears in Doctor Who (monthly) Magazine comics. Here are two scans from issue #60:
http://i.imgur.com/JRORN1f.jpg?1
http://i.imgur.com/m4uEpgC.jpg?1

See? (don't tell me that Merlyn is different from the heroes, because he's not. He shouldn't pop up in a completely separate and totally unrelated continuity).

So another character (who's supposed to be centered in mainstream marvel multiverse), appeared in an entirely separate continuity/multiverse (I have several Doctor Who comics acknowledging other multiverseS, and referencing the omniverse several times).

I also have direct references from Captain Britain and MI13, to certain characters from the Doctor Who multiverse (which should have no relation whatsoever with the mainstream multiverse).

There are more examples. I can post them, if you want.

Originally posted by operator616

^ "Ignore"....Okay, Let's try this the other way around, shall we

There are plenty of things to contradict that it's not on Earth-616, first of all, Transformers UK is outright designated as being Earth-120185 rather than Earth-616 (you can't ignore that either):
http://i.imgur.com/3Bkfy3m.jpg?1

That said...I dunno, let me think of a random contradictory example.....something like Transformers Generation 2 (in Marvel continuity) involving an attack from Decepticons on Earth (told in "Tales of Earth" from issue #4 till #12)

On panel, San Francisco getting utterly obliterated in Transformers Generation 2 #11
http://i.imgur.com/rNF11KT.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/guW2KHX.jpg

An entire portion of the Earth gets obliterated:
http://i.imgur.com/qz8n3Sr.jpg?1

....Yet nobody on Earth-616 notices/gets involved/references/gives a damn. 😂 seems legit.....better yet:

Confirmation that San Francisco was still intact on Earth 616 from X-Men's title published a few months after the Transformers cataclysmic event:
(not that it needs to be proven, i just like to be thorough).
http://i.imgur.com/uMEFXTx.jpg?1

Or let's say something like this....from Transformers US #17:

http://i.imgur.com/266hdIn.jpg?1
Soundwave says that the planet Earth (which they intend to conquer) is full of humans that are inferior to the Transformers in every way , and the only force capable of posing a threat to them is Optimus and his team (because it's not like Earth/planet-616 is filled with Superheroes, that are more than capable of handling the Decepticons)

Sure, let's forget about all of the Superheroes that are present on Earth-616.....because you know, the best defense Earth has without Optimus are humans!!!

See where im coming from? (Those are just 2 examples, but i hope you get the point

That aside, Unicron, I think you know but for the innocent onlookers, was Not a multiversal entity.

At best, a gradual universal power. That means, it takes him time to destroy a universe,
instead of thinking a reality out of existence ... he has to physically break shit. (progressively)

Imo, you give Galactus enuff time, and he can take out his universe. (assuming it's as defenseless as Unicron's reality)

Because none of this happened, right? 🙄

Originally posted by Galan007
Your wall-o-texts are amusing, but as I have reiterated: the original intent was crystal clear... The T-U was originally meant to co-exist in mainstream Marvel.

That's why Nick Fury, Joe Robertson, Spider-Man, etc. appeared in the issue:

That's why a separate canon/mainstream comic was directly cited in the issue:

Would you have me believe that this one issue is inextricably non-canon simply because of your dot-connecting? Sorry, but it doesn't work that way. Granted, the T-U's canonicity to mainstream Marvel may have changed over the years(never said otherwise), but originally it was most certainly intended to be part of the same creation. The evidence is incontrovertible.

^^ No need to highlight your side of the story, I saw/read both arguments, opr is right imo and that's it.

You don't see me exclaiming anyone's attention to detail every time they enter a
thread just to thumbs up anyone opposing my point of view, which is constant for certain shoulder chipped individuals.
You should know by now I'm thorough, and I don't enter threads just to agree with who I like,
or disagree with who I don't like, others may practice that b*tch ass behavior, but I don't.

Odd that you just did exactly what you so despise.

But since that is apparently your opinion, please do tell me how I am wrong. I'd love to hear someone tell me exactly how my opinion is incorrect, given the evidence I posted. 🙂

Originally posted by Galan007

Odd that you just did exactly what you so despise.

If you want an example or many examples of what I was referring too,
I can oblige thoroughly using a name that's very familiar to you.

Originally posted by Galan007

But since that is apparently your opinion

I'll return with more info though.

*sighs*... These personal vendettas are just silly.

Anyway, I'm sure you can provide examples similar to those operator has already posted, showing us that the universes were eventually disassociated... Which I never contested, so don't waste your(or my) time with more of the same.

All I have been debating is operator's original claim is that the universes were "always meant to be separate." As the scans I posted(from very early in the series) blatantly tell/show us: the T-U was originally intended to be part of mainstream Marvel. Soon thereafter, the writers probably realized how ridiculous this was, and gave the Transformers their own separate multiverse accordingly. Initially, however, they were one in the same... Which has been my only point.

Feel me?

Is that some special upgraded version of Apoc that rides a unicorn?

Originally posted by Galan007
Your wall-o-texts are amusing, but as I have reiterated: the original intent was crystal clear... The T-U was originally meant to co-exist in mainstream Marvel.

That's why Nick Fury, Joe Robertson, Spider-Man, etc. appeared in the issue:
That's why a separate canon/mainstream comic was directly cited in the issue:

Would you have me believe that this one issue is inextricably non-canon simply because of your dot-connecting? Sorry, but it doesn't work that way. Granted, the T-U's canonicity to mainstream Marvel may have changed over the years(never said otherwise), but originally it was most certainly intended to be part of the same creation. The evidence is incontrovertible.

Posting the same scene for the 3rd time isn't adding anything new to the discussion. While my "long texts", do. Sorry if you don't like reading long posts, but i gotta explain my point in detail.

You were saying to me that i can't ignore what you posted. I responded with examples which you can't ignore either. You're taking one or two instances (well, there are a few more if we take into account other titles which are meant to take place in the same universe as the Transformers) and basing your opinion on it. While i am taking into consideration the entire history of Transformers.

If by "originally" you mean the first 8 issues or so, then yeah, i can agree with that. But that's as far as you can go with it.

Because from what i understood, you directly challenged me when you said "on panel trumps bios". Because that bio was from 2006, yet when i returned with on-panel examples pre-2006, you said that you were only arguing about "the original intend"; so i hope you see why i got confused here regarding your stance.

Originally posted by Mr Master
👆 ... Nice job, you thoroughly proved your case to be correct.

Thanks.

Originally posted by Mr Master
That aside, Unicron, I think you know but for the innocent onlookers, was Not a multiversal entity.

At best, a gradual universal power. That means, it takes him time to destroy a universe,
instead of thinking a reality out of existence ... he has to physically break shit. (progressively)

Imo, you give Galactus enuff time, and he can take out his universe. (assuming it's as defenseless as Unicron's reality)

Well, there's that one bio which suggests he's multiversal. But purely on panel, id have a hard time putting him in the universal range (i wasn't impressed with him at all). Although, tbf, the page also specified that "the stuff of space itself...destroyed":

http://i.imgur.com/tZvXfKj.jpg?1

That's more impressive than merely destroying all planets/galaxies in a universe, imo.

Actually, in a recent Thor Annual, Galactus was destroying the whole multiverse as a side effect of his battle with Scrier and The Other (the context of the story heavily alluded to it being multiversal). So there's no doubt about that, imo (that's also not to mention that he already has multiple universal showings, as you know).

Originally posted by operator616
If by "originally" you mean the first 8 issues or so, then yeah, i can agree with that.

Originally posted by Galan007
*sighs*... These personal vendettas are just silly.

Anyway, I'm sure you can provide examples similar to those operator has already posted, showing us that the universes were eventually disassociated... Which I never contested, so don't waste your(or my) time with more of the same.

All I have been debating is operator's original claim is that the universes were "always meant to be separate." As the scans I posted(from very early in the series) blatantly tell/show us: the T-U was originally intended to be part of mainstream Marvel. Soon thereafter, the writers probably realized how ridiculous this was, and gave the Transformers their own separate multiverse accordingly. Initially, however, they were one in the same... Which has been my only point.

Feel me?

Take a deep breath. 😛

It's actually quite common for Mr M to participate in threads involving Marvel cosmic beings, nothing random about it.
There was also nothing random about my chiming. I think I already expressed I don't practice that.
Goodness, isn't it easier just to say, I reiterated myself in respose to Mr M?
Why does the extra unnecessary comment that can only give rise to
animosity always have to be thrown in? Actually forget that, I almost forgot.

Anyway, notice I didn't reply/drag the debate elsewhere/further when I realized
the opinion was based on the first few issues, which anyone not knowing more
would think it was situated in 616, or at the very least within the prime multiverse.
That aside, those first few stories were officially retconned (letters page in TU#64)
as never having had 616 cats like Spidey. They said, something akin to: 'pretend it never happened.'

I was actually agreeing with opr how the Spidey scene didn't make sense, not that it never happened,
I only found out that specific update yesterday.

Geeze, stop being so insecure. There was nothing wrong with you chiming in, but you did chime in nonetheless. I welcomed it, however, because it gave me a chance to reiterate my opinion. This is a comic book discussion board, after all... Chiming in and reiteration is what we do. 👆

...Also, there's no letters pages in issue #64(in my rip, at least)--but I have every Transformers comic in existence, so if you find out the correct issue, let me know. Even assuming that statement was made, letters pages cannot 'officially retcon' an event any more than Handbooks, marvunapp, or weberviews can. Certainly letters pages can help solidify facts we already know to be true, but they cannot alter continuity all together.

I have Transformers US #64, and i didn't see any letters page, and i doubt id missed that anyway (there's only those profiles at the end of the issue).

Not that it matters, because as i said before, there are a few other instances of such stupidity even in the Transformers universe. Like Shang Chi (a mainstream character) appearing in Action Force (i already cited the example in my previous post):

http://i.imgur.com/zUG8pPQ.jpg

.....despite the fact that Action force directly encountered the Transformers several issues later (which was a continuation of a previous plot)

http://i.imgur.com/IVgYdbl.jpg

You can recognize Airtight, Bazooka, Barbecue, Flint and Scarlet (posting it for confirmation).

And we know for sure that the Transformers UK is separate from mainstream; not only due to the contradictory examples, but also because of things like Death's Head encounter with them (who was confirmed to have jumped to another universe). Same series makes it pretty clear that the Action Force exists in that same universe.

Just another instance of nonsense.

....But i think we all know that the case for Transformers being separate from mainstream Marvel is far stronger (which is what my point is, in this entire discussion) No doubt about it.

Originally posted by Mr Master

would think it was situated in 616, or at the very least within the prime multiverse.

So you agree that Transformers is outside the prime/mainstream multiverse? If so, (based on our previous discussion) why do you disagree that it's a separate multiverse (as opposed to being merely a universe) considering that we saw alternate realities?

Are you still arguing with me, operator? mmm

If so, I already made my point clear(you even agreed with it.) 😕

^ Read my post carefully, because im not. I wasn't even addressing your post.

Im simply saying that even though the Spidey affair was "retconned", there are other instances of stupidity.

Originally posted by SamZED
Is that some special upgraded version of Apoc that rides a unicorn?

Yes. And he brings presents to all the good little boys and girls that eat their vegetables. Now go to bed, it's past your bedtime.

Originally posted by operator616
^ Read my post carefully, because im not. I wasn't even addressing your post.

Im simply saying that even though the Spidey affair was "retconned", there are other instances of stupidity.

...Although I still don't believe anything was officially/directly retconned. I think the writers did something dumb, realized their folly, and opted to move on and act like none of the Marvel-specific references had ever happened. However, I suppose the T-U(UK) later being given a numerical designation in the OHOTMU entry of Death's Head might qualify as a retcon of sorts:
http://imgur.com/Ru98Aba
(I think you posted something similar earlier.)

But aside from the 'stupidity' you mentioned, there's also Circuit Breaker(a Transformers character) being directly shown/referenced in SW II #3:
http://imgur.com/IvnttdJ
With an editor's note at the bottom of the page stating: "For more on Circuit Breaker, see Transformers #9--Bob"

We also have the Savage Land being directly shown/referenced in Transformers #4:
http://imgur.com/WQkpzE6
With an editor's note at the bottom of the page stating: "Long-time Marvel readers will recognize this place as the Savage Land, prehistoric domain of the present-day Ka-Zar!"

So yeah, not only did the T-U reference mainstream Marvel, but mainstream Marvel also referenced the T-U. They were definitely meant to be canon to one another originally.

^ That's why i said 1 or 2 instances (i added that other titles such as Action Force has others)". We even see at the begginning of Transformers #8 ( i even specified issue #8 in my previous posts), say: This story precedes Avengers #257:

http://i.imgur.com/Uba2gLI.jpg

That time period was dealing with the Savage Land, that's how Avengers #258 opens:

http://i.imgur.com/oxiTrS1.jpg

Also, regarding Circuit Breaker, that much is understandable, considering the instance is associated with the Beyonder (i even brought up that instance a few weeks ago, btw)....not that it matters.

Again, not debating with you. Just didn't want anyone to think my stance was based on a single showing. 👆

^ Again, neither am i. Simply adding info, is all.

I never intended to say that you were using a single showing, in fact i clearly said that it's one or two (in the sense that they are few as opposed to the on panel examples that show Transformers being a separate continuity). And i even added that other titles have such instances, in that same post (and later posted the proof for it).

I never insinuated that you stated such. I simply added the aforementioned info for any onlookers who might skim through this thread in the future.

Relax. 😛