Apocalypse vs Magneto

Originally posted by Xplosive
X-Men 378 had him saying he had the powers of the 12 when he didn't as Xavier stated to Apocalypse in X-Men 98, and Apocalypse manipulated all of reality and reshaped it twice.

Well i'm not surprised he'd say he had the powers even though he didn't. And the reality warping stuff doesn't even bother me anymore. In that department, Wanda which doesn't need technology or preparation beforehand can do it quicker, faster and prettier than he can 😄

~wickerman~

Originally posted by Wickerman
Well i'm not surprised he'd say he had the powers even though he didn't. And the reality warping stuff doesn't even bother me anymore. In that department, Wanda which doesn't need technology or preparation beforehand can do it quicker, faster and prettier than he can 😄

~wickerman~

That what I said, I think you never even knew that, so it's pointless.

Originally posted by Xplosive
That what I said, I think you never even knew that, so it's pointless.

bout the 378/98 inconsistency? or what? no, didn't know bout that particular one.

~wickerman~

Originally posted by Xplosive
Apocalypse manipulated all of reality and reshaped it twice.

Yes he did, but he couldnt have done it without the 12. Reality warping isnt part of his powers.

Originally posted by Xplosive
In Cable 1, 2, and 5 and X-Men 23 it mentions Apocalypse exists in all realities/timelines at once (all 3 written by Fabien Nicieza).
Also, in The Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix (by Scott Lobdell), it mentions Apocalypse is a force like the Phoenix Force, and possesses bodies, but keeps on burning them out because he keeps on evolving past his old self and keeps on growing more powerful. In X-Men 98 (Alan Davis/Terry Kavanaugh) it mentions that Apocalypse's current Cyclops body is just a minor manifestation, and the bulk of what he is exists outside time and space, though that body doesn't know it; and X-Men 98, and Uncanny X-Men 378 had him saying he had the powers of the 12 when he didn't as Xavier stated to Apocalypse in X-Men 98, and Apocalypse manipulated all of reality and reshaped it twice.

For a start. What you said was not impressive at all. To someone who just skim reads it and doesnt actually take it in(Mainstream) it maybe but for someone wiv common sense and gd comic book knowledge i deem it a waste of a post.

If im to believe your ref to Xmen 23 it may say that apocalypse exists in all realities but errr so what?!! That just means he has alternate selves in alternate realities/universes and so on. I think you'll find hes not exactly unique in that respect 😉

Whats the point in telling me what apocalypse did with the power of the twelve? Its not impressive at all. It wasnt his own power. For apocalypse to have a chance of world domination he required the energies of all of those other mutants, cos he sure as hell couldnt take on the worlds forces singlehandedly like say Magneto has on many occassions

Originally posted by Wickerman
bout the 378/98 inconsistency? or what? no, didn't know bout that particular one.

~wickerman~

We can say than, all Marvel stories are inconsistent all the time.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Marvel never did that, it did say PF is secnd to TOAA. I hope you ar not that stupid, cause it's hard man. 😘

Have you read the whole Dark Phoenix VS Krona thread. Dont continually tell me Marvel didnt do that, or that im stupid to think that way when its actually in the comics laid out plain and clear. Theres many refernces in that thread so if you want to be enlightened then get reading.

Originally posted by Xplosive
We can say than, all Marvel stories are inconsistent all the time.

which they mostly are to tell the truth. They have bad writing that they then try to correct when they notice the fans don't like it much like you would in a soap opera. Only here instead of having annoying 30-70 year old women it's mostly teenage geeks they have to please. So.....here we start with alternate realities, timelines, and aliens. Yep....GREAT writing 🙁

~wickerman~

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Have you read the whole Dark Phoenix VS Krona thread. Dont continually tell me Marvel didnt do that, or that im stupid to think that way when its actually in the comics laid out plain and clear. Theres many refernces in that thread so if you want to be enlightened then get reading.

Second to creator, now we know that maby it isn't even in top 5 (but probabky it is). (BTW GalacticStorm, you have nice signature image, I must get one with Apocalypse)

''which they mostly are to tell the truth. They have bad writing that they then try to correct when they notice the fans don't like it much like you would in a soap opera. Only here instead of having annoying 30-70 year old women it's mostly teenage geeks they have to please. So.....here we start with alternate realities, timelines, and aliens. Yep....GREAT writing sad

~wickerman~''

Sadly

Apocalypse: I bring forth the gift of Oblivion.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Second to creator, now we know that maby it isn't even in top 5 (but probabky it is). (BTW GalacticStorm, you have nice signature image, I must get one with Apocalypse)

''which they mostly are to tell the truth. They have bad writing that they then try to correct when they notice the fans don't like it much like you would in a soap opera. Only here instead of having annoying 30-70 year old women it's mostly teenage geeks they have to please. So.....here we start with alternate realities, timelines, and aliens. Yep....GREAT writing sad

~wickerman~''

Sadly

Whether you like it or not that is the situation with the phoenix force. In my opinion the original idea made a lot more sense than the 86 retcon. It was that retcon which involved alternate realities and timelines with thephoenix story

the phoenix stuff confusing is Jean the Phoenix..did the phoenix make it self to look like Jean...are they both the Phoenix....brain.......hurt.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Whether you like it or not that is the situation with the phoenix force.

Not anymore.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Not anymore.

What do you mean not anymore. Marvel has only just reverted back to the original idea over the last two years. Starting wiv Grant Morrisons run on New Xmen and ending with the last story phoenix was seen in which was endsong just last month. So what do you mean? Xplosive you obviously dont read Xmen regularly or you would know all of this

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
What do you mean not anymore. Marvel has only just reverted back to the original idea over the last two years. Starting wiv Grant Morrisons run on New Xmen and ending with the last story phoenix was seen in which was endsong just last month. So what do you mean? Xplosive you obviously dont read Xmen regularly or you would know all of this

Well, PF is not TOAA, if it was meant, it's not anymore.

Originally posted by Xplosive
I read, but you are making PF was originally meant as TOAA, but not the real TOAA we all have in minds. LT will always be above PF.

Youre obviously not understanding what was said in the thread. What you need to understand XP is that the likes of me and markolin are just presenting to you what is in the comics and thats that. We're not making it up because we love the phoenix.

The phoenix force is an incarnation of the TOAA in our multiverse. You got that?

TOAA exists outside our plane of existence therefore it used Jean burning up in the shuttle incident as an oppurtunity to funnel into our existence through her creating Phoenix.

The Phoenix Force is just an aspect of TOAA. Certain beings are born with phoenix potential which makes them avatars.

These avatars act as doctors of the multiverse fixing what needs to be healed (MiKraan) and burning or disinfecting what doesnt work(D'Bari and Sublime)

These avatars carry out the work of the TOAA in our plane of existnce.

They can be killed but they will just eventually be reborn after reforming in the White Room wherever they need to carry out their phoenix work.

Please tell me you understand now?

yes...m..m..ma...master

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Youre obviously not understanding what was said in the thread. What you need to understand XP is that the likes of me and markolin are just presenting to you what is in the comics and thats that. We're not making it up because we love the phoenix.

The phoenix force is an incarnation of the TOAA in our multiverse. You got that?

TOAA exists outside our plane of existence therefore it used Jean burning up in the shuttle incident as an oppurtunity to funnel into our existence through her creating Phoenix.

The Phoenix Force is just an aspect of TOAA. Certain beings are born with phoenix potential which makes them avatars.

These avatars act as doctors of the multiverse fixing what needs to be healed (MiKraan) and burning or disinfecting what doesnt work(D'Bari and Sublime)

These avatars carry out the work of the TOAA in our plane of existnce.

They can be killed but they will just eventually be reborn after reforming in the White Room wherever they need to carry out their phoenix work.

Please tell me you understand now?

This has been a great reply. I should actually save this somewhere and post it when this stuff occurs again. Like i said on another thread about Jean = the Phoenix. I basically said that she acts as a Proxy (Avatar) for theTOAA.

~wickerman~

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

The Phoenix Force is an incarnation of the TOAA in our multiverse. You got that?

TOAA exists outside our plane of existence therefore it used Jean burning up in the shuttle incident as an oppurtunity to funnel into our existence through her creating Phoenix.

The Phoenix Force is just an aspect of TOAA. Certain beings are born with Phoenix potential which makes them avatars.

These avatars act as doctors of the multiverse fixing what needs to be healed (M'Kraan) and burning or disinfecting what doesnt work (D'Bari and Sublime).

These avatars carry out the work of the TOAA in our plane of existnce.

Please tell me you understand now?

I understood that before. But here logicall. And TOAA is in all of existence of course, but in our multiverse he is in look of PF (or PF is incarantion of TOAA and through her created Phoenix as he can do with other potential avatars, Avatars=PF acts through them=TOAA acts through them). Jean was his opportunity to come in our existence (he needed opportunity, wow, like there is no other way for TOAA and now are more avatars of course, and they are his opportunity, amazing. He doesn't need opportunities, he probably choses specifecelly which host has that potential, so he could created everyone to be his avatars). To heal everyhitng, well also aspect of changing into Dark Phoenix and destroying everything that is. Good job writers.

Originally posted by Xplosive
I understood that before. But here logicall. And TOAA is in all of existence of course, but in our multiverse he is in look of PF (or PF is incarantion of TOAA and through her created Phoenix as he can do with other potential avatars, Avatars=PF acts through them=TOAA acts through them). Jean was his opportunity to come in our existence (he needed opportunity, wow, like there is no other way for TOAA and now are more avatars of course, and they are his opportunity, amazing. He doesn't need opportunities, he probably choses specifecelly which host has that potential, so he could created everyone to be his avatars). To heal everyhitng, well also aspect of changing into Dark Phoenix and destroying everything that is. Good job writers.

Of course Jean was chosen. She was born with Phoenix potential. If you read Classic Xmen you will see that Phoenix appeared to Jean way back when she was a child. The whole space shuttle incident was destined. Jean is the Phoenix of the White Crown thats why TOAA waited for that particular oppurtunity. Jean had to die to be reborn as the Phoenix. That is the way of the Phoenix. It represents among many things rebirth. She had to leave behind her previous form of existence just to be reborn where she was needed. Back in the 616 reality to heal the M'kraan crystal.

Quentin Quire(Kid Omega) at the end of New Xmen was also found out to be one with phoenix potential. All phoenixes leave their former existences to be reborn as a phoenix. During the Riot story arc he evolved. We knew that his thought evolved into faster than light mental energy and that he entered higher planes and rooms. He went to the White Hot Room. The place outside of existence beyond the towers death made to house the spirits of everything, including the likes of Galactus. Here they reform just before their rebirth. This mirrors Jeans first transition into the phoenix , when she to became a being of pure mental energy before reforming in Jamaica bay.

In Morrison's version the Phoenix is its avatars and a higher consciousness. The avatars have genetic mutations for being Phoenixes and have enormous psychic potential. The Phoenix Consciousness seems to be a collective consciousness of the avatars from the White Hot Room. This "they" seems to have a mental connection to them from the White Hot Room. It also seems to be able to regulate what they are allowed to do and how they will resurrect.

Jean and Quentin talk of "they" yet the only they we see are them and their fellow Phoenixes. They speak in their own Phoenix Voice yet there is a main voice that doens't come from any specific being that talks like a computer or collective with // marks.

Just because she is one with an aspect of TOAA doesnt make her infallible. She is still human after all. In the blink of an eye she went from being your average mutant telepath/telekinetic to being second only to the creator in terms of power. So its understandable that she lost her way.

However Jean destroying D'Bari was all part of the Phoenixes work. Jean mentions the cosmic side of the coin in New Xmen. It burns through things that don't work, it eats stars and planets, it talks to her, and if she gets too close it replaces her.

-But these replacements are not literal. She is replaced in that she is consumed by the Phoenix Consciousness. Jean was 'replaced' by the Phoenix twice in New but was also the same character- before, during, and after being consumed. Just like Classic 8 backstory shows- the whole 'Phoenix replaced Jean' story was not literal. This is what happens naturally when she gets too close to the power.

Jeans Dark Phoenix transition was her mind at conflict with the Phoenix consciousness. She was new to the way of the Phoenix she didnt understand.

So dont discredit the writers because of your lack of understanding Xplosive. Theres often a lot more to comic books than pretty pictures. Theres hidden depth which you obviously bypass when you do read them.