Apocalypse vs Magneto

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Of course Jean was chosen. She was born with Phoenix potential. If you read Classic Xmen you will see that Phoenix appeared to Jean way back when she was a child. The whole space shuttle incident was destined. Jean is the Phoenix of the White Crown thats why TOAA waited for that particular oppurtunity. Jean had to die to be reborn as the Phoenix. That is the way of the Phoenix. It represents among many things rebirth. She had to leave behind her previous form of existence just to be reborn where she was needed. Back in the 616 reality to heal the M'kraan crystal.

Quentin Quire(Kid Omega) at the end of New Xmen was also found out to be one with phoenix potential. All phoenixes leave their former existences to be reborn as a phoenix. During the Riot story arc he evolved. We knew that his thought evolved into faster than light mental energy and that he entered higher planes and rooms. He went to the White Hot Room. The place outside of existence beyond the towers death made to house the spirits of everything, including the likes of Galactus. Here they reform just before their rebirth. This mirrors Jeans first transition into the phoenix , when she to became a being of pure mental energy before reforming in Jamaica bay.

In Morrison's version the Phoenix is its avatars and a higher consciousness. The avatars have genetic mutations for being Phoenixes and have enormous psychic potential. The Phoenix Consciousness seems to be a collective consciousness of the avatars from the White Hot Room. This "they" seems to have a mental connection to them from the White Hot Room. It also seems to be able to regulate what they are allowed to do and how they will resurrect.

Jean and Quentin talk of "they" yet the only they we see are them and their fellow Phoenixes. They speak in their own Phoenix Voice yet there is a main voice that doens't come from any specific being that talks like a computer or collective with // marks.

Just because she is one with an aspect of TOAA doesnt make her infallible. She is still human after all. In the blink of an eye she went from being your average mutant telepath/telekinetic to being second only to the creator in terms of power. So its understandable that she lost her way.

However Jean destroying D'Bari was all part of the Phoenixes work. Jean mentions the cosmic side of the coin in New Xmen. It burns through things that don't work, it eats stars and planets, it talks to her, and if she gets too close it replaces her.

-But these replacements are not literal. She is replaced in that she is consumed by the Phoenix Consciousness. Jean was 'replaced' by the Phoenix twice in New but was also the same character- before, during, and after being consumed. Just like Classic 8 backstory shows- the whole 'Phoenix replaced Jean' story was not literal. This is what happens naturally when she gets too close to the power.

Jeans Dark Phoenix transition was her mind at conflict with the Phoenix consciousness. She was new to the way of the Phoenix she didnt understand.

So dont discredit the writers because of your lack of understanding Xplosive. Theres often a lot more to comic books than pretty pictures. Theres hidden depth which you obviously bypass when you do read them.

HAHAHAHA, lack of understnding (you want know what are deep stroiy, AoA, that is deeper story, not some Phoenix an her battle with Phoenix consciousness,), you lack understanding, she didn't understand what she was deling with and TOAA would allow to destroy everything there is, yeah good job writers. Marvel writers can be the most digusting writers ever, you just can't get, do you, and than they make soem new thing up. Beucse of he battle or conflict with Phoenix consciousness, she wanted to destroy everything thtere is, yeah deep storyline, get real.
No wonder Mathew Vaugh says there are disgutnig and really bad things in DP Saga, thank for opening my mind, now I really get why he meant it. Just because she is one with an aspect of TOAA doesnt make her infallible (TOAA would just allow everyhtin to be gone, just because of her conflict). What are Marvel writers thinkng. Disgustnig and cheapest thing ever.

Originally posted by Xplosive
HAHAHAHA, lack of understnding (you want know what are deep stroiy, AoA, that is deeper story, not some Phoenix an her battle with Phoenix consciousness,), you lack understanding, she didn't understand what she was delaing with and TOAA would allow to destoy everything that is, yeah good job writers. Marvel writers can be the most digusting writers ever, you just can't get, do you, and than they make soem new thing up. Beucse of he battle or conflict with Phoenix consciousness with, she wanted to destroy everything thtere is, yeah deep storyline, get real. TOAA wanted to destroyed or alow to be destroyed ebause of her confilct, you lack understanding.
No wonder Mathew Vaugh says there are disgutnig and really bad things in DP Saga, thank for opening my mind, now I really get why he meant it.

You have just made your lack of understanding so apparent not only to myself but to rest of the forum. Also How the hell was AOA a deeper concept or storyline than the phoenix story thats the most ridiculous thing ive ever heard on these forums. How old are you anyway? Your grammar and vocabulary are appalling. Plus you honestly do seem very slow. It took you from yesterday evening till this morning for you to get the whole Phoenix Force, TOAA connection. Please someone tell him how stupid his posts are.

I would reply to this mess of a post, if i could understand what the hell you were trying to say. Go back to school XP. You dont meet the requirements necessary to converse with adult minds.

And hoenstly, I don't read X-men beause of prety picuter, hell, picture aren't soemhitng specail, buut ebacuse of stories, and PS s just not that good, nor somehitn speacially deep.

And hoenstly, I don't read X-men beause of prety picuter, hell, picture aren't soemhitng specail, but beacuse of stories, I found many stories to be deep, but ceratinly not with Phoenix. Deep stories are only ones who are happeing on Earth about between mutants, humans and not about cosmic entites.

Why post the same mess twice?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
You have just made your lack of understanding so apparent not only to myself but to rest of the forum. Also How the hell was AOA a deeper concept or storyline than the phoenix story thats the most ridiculous thing ive ever heard on these forums. How old are you anyway? Your grammar and vocabulary are appalling. Plus you honestly do seem very slow. It took you from yesterday evening till this morning for you to get the whole Phoenix Force, TOAA connection. Please someone tell him how stupid his posts are.

I would reply to this mess of a post, if i could understand what the hell you were trying to say. Go back to school XP. You dont meet the requirements necessary to converse with adult minds.

You ****ing idiot, you don know what deep stories are, I needed TOAA and PF conneciton (cause I never heard of this storie, you moron, I undersatned immediately what you want to say, only didn't want to accept it, beause I never heard of it and it seemed stupid and it is, but I did now, if Marvel says so, I will finally accept but ignere it, because it's one of the cheapts sotries ever, stupid stories are not acceptable with me. Deepst storiea are the one who are happening with mutants, humans conflict and not ****ing comic entites and it seems you can't except it, AoA is deep storilien, PS not even close.

The phoenix story is very deep. It contains a lot of kabalistic symbology. Namely the white room, the white crown etc. You took a whole day to comprehend what myself and others were trying to get across to you. So you seeing this story as simple childs material that says a lot for mental faculties.

Also if you dont even read the Xmen who are you to criticise it or even challenge me or others on anything to do with it?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The phoenix story is very deep. It contains a lot of kabalistic symbology. Namely the white room, the white crown etc. You took a whole day to comprehend what myself and others were trying to get across to you. So you seeing this story as simple childs material that says a lot for mental faculties.

Also if you dont even read the Xmen who are you to criticise it or even challenge me or others on anything to do with it?

I comprehened it immediatelly what were you saying, but I didn't want to accept it, cause I never heared of TOAA and PF connection and it seemed stupid to me and hoenstly I thought you were making it up (TOAA=PF in our Multverse, never hear o it, and didn't want to accept it, and I am not reading new stories about PF often, cause I don't care).

And Phoenix stories are something that cannot be taken seriously (it's only intesresting beacuse of imagination), so it's not deep, only conflict between mutants and humans are deep (because we can comapre it to our real life, conflict and that, you must undersatnd that, Phoenix stories aren't deep, want to be deep, but it isn't, beacuse it't cannot be taken seriously).

Originally posted by Xplosive
You ****ing idiot, you don know what deep stories are, I needed TOAA and PF conneciton (cause I never heard of this storie, you moron, I undersatned immediately what you want to say, only didn't want to accept it, beause I never heard of it and it seemed stupid and it is, but I did now, if Marvel says so, I will finally accept but ignere it, because it's one of the cheapts sotries ever, stupid stories are not acceptable with me. Deepst storiea are the one who are happening with mutants, humans conflict and not ****ing comic entites and it seems you can't except it, AoA is deep storilien, PS not even close.

The AOA was a deep storyline was it? Ok tell me about the main themes running throughout it. Tell me about any symbology used or any carefully interwoven sub plots or any masterful plot twists. You got any for me? 🙄

Originally posted by Xplosive
I comprehened it immediatelly what were you saying, but I didn't want to accept it, cause I never heared of TOAA and PF connection and it seemed stupid to me and hoenstly I thought you were making it up (TOAA=PF in our Multverse, never hear o it, and didn't want to accept it, and I am not reading new stories about PF often, cause I don't care).

You understood everything i said did u? Ok who said this a few hours back?:

"Sorry than, I haven't read the thread, I thought you meant,...it doesn't matter, when I saw TOAA=PF, I immedaitely though, what are you thinink, sorry."

I think the the spelling mistakes give it away 😉

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The AOA was a deep storyline was it? Ok tell me about the main themes running throughout it. Tell me about any symbology used or any carefully interwoven sub plots or any masterful plot twists. You got any for me? 🙄

Huge war, total destruction, something that we can compare to our real life, Apocalypse=destruction, destroying our lifes (and he lived up to it, and as it seems our world is really towarding this, and when it will, it will be time when we will join to stop terrorist, we can compare this story to our real life, and you cannot deny that, that is deep for me, I know Phoenix story want to be deep, especially about character, symbol, but I cannot take this deep meaning, cause it just can't compare to our real lifes, we cannot really comapre to our life (her conlfict with Phoenix concuoinses, like we can say we have all conlfiict within us, like she had with Phoenix concuoinses, we are having conflict with demons, that is soemthing I take as deep, cause it appael also in our real life, but it's told in other and intersting way that is why I said especially about character, her) , that is how I dispense what is deep, Phoenix stories want to be deep, but I cannot take them as deep meaning as whole, but I can AoA, cause we can really comapre it to our world . That is how I look what is deep). And after AoA, he was destroyed, I compare it like our final war with antichirst, where huge destruciotn will be, but when this anitchrist in our would, will be killed, Satan will be gone, peace will come, God will crush Satan, like Apocalypse was crushed, he was like some big antchirst there, but when he was desytroyed, there was no more threat (like in our world won't be), if we don't count now new AoA, but I am saying for the original one

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
You understood everything i said did u? Ok who said this a few hours back?:

"Sorry than, I haven't read the thread, I thought you meant,...it doesn't matter, when I saw TOAA=PF, I immedaitely though, what are you thinink, sorry."

I think the the spelling mistakes give it away 😉

That was yesterday (we started at 07:41 PM and my last post was at 8.26 and I said sorry, beauce I read through forum, so how long I needed, only to read forum), so if you see this, you see I immediatelly comprehed it (otherwise I would argue and wouldn't say sorry), but I didn't accept it, cause I just thought what is he making up, giving TOAA=PF, so I knew what you were saying, but I thought you were making it up (giving TOAA=PF, that was juct unacceatble, cause I didn't know story), and didn't read through forum, when I did, you see, I immediatelly said sorry.

"that is how I dispense what is deep"

Thats my point. All you've basically said is that you dont like the Phoenix story because you cant relate to it like you can AOA. If thats how you consider a storyline or concept deep then fair enough each to their own but noone else does.

Most other people measure the depth of a storyline by how cleverly written it is. What hidden meanings and symbology it contains within, what clever plot twists it has. How carefully and skillfully subplots are interwoven with the main story.

You see the diffrence?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
"that is how I dispense what is deep"

Thats my point. All you've basically said is that you dont like the Phoenix story because you cant relate to it like you can AOA. If thats how you consider a storyline or concept deep then fair enough each to their own but noone else does.

Most other people measure the depth of a storyline by how cleverly written it is. What hidden meanings and symbology it contains within, what clever plot twists it has. How carefully and skillfully subplots are interwoven with the main story.

You see the diffrence?

Yes I know, I take Phoeinx story as cleverly written (and honestly one of the best, great stroyies, story, cleverly writeen, not plot holes, but that doesn't mean I take them as deep, that is why I explain to you what I take as deep and what is clever (different meanings for me)

And the same goes for movies, someone has deep storylines, some movie is cleverly written, but not that much deep. Let's say Sixth Sense, clverly written, clever twist, cleverly directed, but really not some deep meaning, maybe you take this as deep, but I don't at all.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Yes I know, I take Phoeinx story as cleverly written (and honestly one of the best, great stroyies, story, cleverly writeen, not plot holes, but that doesn't mean I take them as deep, that is why I explain to you what I take as deep and what is clever (different meanings for me)

Which is why when you make statements like the AOA is an example of a deep well written story you should explain yourself. You should have said you think its deep because you relate to it more which is fair enough. But what you must understand is that your idea of what makes a storyline deep is at odds with virtually everyone elses.

The phoenix story features themes of love conquering all even death, betrayal, inner conflict, self sacrifice.

Despite Jean becoming one with a primal force of creation she is still very much human. She still loves, feels pain, gets jealous, angry and so on. She doesnt suddenly become galactus like in terms of her emotions and manner. She is always very human. If you read the Xmen which you have admitted you dont, then you would know this.

As such, you are not in the position to debate on or criticise especially something you have little to no knowledge of.

I have little knowledge of the DC universe and all its past major sagas, therefore i rarely participate in DC threads. Take a leaf from my book.

You dont have to like the phoenix story, everyones entitled to their own opinion. But dont jump on a thread rubbishing what others are saying without actually having read the thread and without having decent knowledge on the thread subject. You just came on spouting your opinion which you couldnt back up with anything credible. That is annoying to all who have spent hours debating and it makes yourself seem like a newbie.

Originally posted by Xplosive
And the same goes for movies, someone has deep storylines, some movie is cleverly written, but not that much deep. Let's say Sixth Sense, clverly written, clever twist, cleverly directed, but really not some deep meaning, maybe you take this as deep, but I don't at all.

Well say that then instead of just childishly rubbishing peoples views without explaining yourself. You should have said from the beginning what you consider makes a story deep. But you understand that in conventional terms the phoenix story is deeper than AOA however not in your personal opinion because you need to relate to storys to consider them deep.

''Which is why when you make statements like the AOA is an example of a deep well written story you should explain yourself. You should have said you think its deep because you relate to it more which is fair enough. But what you must understand is that your idea of what makes a storyline deep is at odds with virtually everyone elses. ''

Ok, we are clear now with that, since I explained my view about what I take as deep.

''The phoenix story features themes of love conquering all even death, betrayal, inner conflict, self sacrifice.

Despite Jean becoming one with a primal force of creation she is still very much human. She still loves, feels pain, gets jealous, angry and so on. She doesn't suddenly become Galactus like in terms of her emotions and manner. She is always very human. If you read the X-Men which you have admitted you don't, then you would know this. ''

I read X-Men a lot, who said I don't, but I cannot read all. You said I should know this, if I read, I do that is why I said if you read again previos post, that I mostly take as deep when it comes charachter (but you know what, many talks about that things, Spider-Man sacrfice, inner conflict, love...., anyone knows this and anyone will notice this, even cheap stories, comic, movies have such themes, it's just everywhere)

''As such, you are not in the position to debate on or criticise especially something you have little to no knowledge of.''

As I see I have knowldege about Phoenix generally, but I didn't know about this TOAA and (and probably I don't know still like you do about Pheonix) ..., and I said sorry.

"and I said sorry"

Cool. Apology accepted. 😄