Originally posted by Kasper Gutman
Old thread but for comparison's sake, Dr. Strange was punking Scarlet Witch's reality changes. Any entity that can change reality at a skyfather level or higher probably wouldn't think of Wanda as a threat.
Originally posted by Uriel005
unless she removes them from existence entirely... For the purposes of this fight I'd say she BFR via taking away the entire existence of the DP in the universe.
Wanda is overrated due to the majority of readers not taking the time out to properly analyse the events and feats found within House of M and its spin off titles.
The Phoenix is leagues above any incarnation of Wanda. Wanda couldnt remove the Phoenix from existence, the Phoenix is something way beyond her, existence depends on the Phoenix.
Im going bed, no doubt by the time i wake up there will be some interesting replies 🙂
You know, wasn't Wanda's highest feat ever................ suspicious? I'm talking about the House of M "omniversal" rewriting.
Excalibur's lighthouse was the focal point/nexus that caused her planet wide spell to go omniversal no? If so, then that's a PF feat. Feron asked the PF to project the tower onto every plane of existence simultaneously. That would explain how she was able to accomplish such a feat.
If that is correct, Wanda is the most over rated piece of garbage on these forums. Any accomplished mage would smack her into next Tuesday.
Originally posted by zopzop
You know, wasn't Wanda's highest feat ever................ suspicious? I'm talking about the House of M "omniversal" rewriting.Excalibur's lighthouse was the focal point/nexus that caused her planet wide spell to go omniversal no? If so, then that's a PF feat. Feron asked the PF to project the tower onto every plane of existence simultaneously. That would explain how she was able to accomplish such a feat.
If that is correct, Wanda is the most over rated piece of garbage on these forums. Any accomplished mage would smack her into next Tuesday.
Youve been reading my posts in the X-men forums right 😛
Basically the only feats Wanda is directly responsible for are the creation of House of M, which is a universal scale reality warp that she couldnt control and she required the emotional support of Pietro and the powers of Professor Xavier to co-ordinate. It was the limit of her power to do this which is why she was hidden away in House of M maintaining the spell and then she lost control when the heroes started attacking. It was a botch job anyway because her warp was a thin veil over reality which Layla Miller and Wolverine could see through.
Other than that she also removed the mutant gene from planet Earth. Big deal. 🙄 Another botch job because she left near 200 unaffected.
How is any of that a match for Eternity, let alone the multiversal Phoenix?
People also wrongly attribute the Chaos Wave as a feat of Wandas when she had no direct part in its creation whatsoever and had no knowledge of it.
The warped reality of HOM leaked through the dimensional doorway based at Excaliburs lighthouse straight into Otherworld. It wasnt specifically created, maintained or controlled by Wanda. It was an anomaly triggered by the creation of House of M therefore it and all it did are not attributable as feats to Wanda.
Furthermore as misinterpreted by many, the wave never went around existence collapsing realities and it certainly never spread across existence simultaneously collapsing realities.
All what happened was it leaked through the doorway into Otherworld and collided with Otherworld. The Phoenix Force connected all realities of existence to Otherworld making it a place of omniversal significance. A keystone of reality, a support column. So the Chaos Wave collided with this nexus, shaking it up, resulting in a domino effect which saw a few realities collapse.
The Chaos Wave did NOT directly collapse any realities, it struck Otherworld and as Otherworld is connected to all existence thanks to the Phoenix, it triggered further destruction.
However as clearly depicted in the comic, the Chaos Wave was not a massive threat when tackled head on, it was a threat when unchecked and because it struck suddenly and without warning.
When it was identified, it got handled in about 3 panels by Excalibur.
Down with the hype. 👇
Read the comics guys 😬
Originally posted by 753
How bizarre this thread has been....Anyway, SW wins. The chaos wave has been pretty thoroughly stablished as a multiversal, some would argue omniversal, warp. The PF is still currently below eternity.
The Wave triggered effects across all existence but it had no direct part in the destruction apart from colliding with Otherworld. Otherworld was made a keystone of existence when the Phoenix Force linked it to all realities. Thus by striking Otherworld as stated and shown, the wave triggered further destruction in other realities.
The Phoenix Force is far from below Eternity in current continuity. Its avatars have been empowered to manipulate all that Eternity is within the palm of their hands.
The latest handbook calls the Force multiversal and numerous on panel accounts by reputable characters such as Death, Roma, the Watcher, Kubik and Reed Richards refer to it as the Big Bang, the power source of reality and that without it there would be no reality, nothing but a void.
Originally posted by zopzop
Like I said, any competent mage hands Wanda her ass, House of M version or not.
Pre WWH Dr Strange with prep would take her out without a doubt.
She has been hyped to ridiculous proportions by some posters and the majority of readers on these forums just swallowed what they were told without taking the time out to analyse what was actually stated and shown themselves. 😬
zopzop youre a rare one on these forums 👆 😂
Originally posted by GalacticStormOtherworld was made a primary intersection of reality by the Phoenix Force who connected all realities of the multiverse to it:
The lighthouse(which would later become Excaliburs headquarters) became a dimensional gateway to Otherworld and its through this weakpoint in 616's dimensional wall that Wandas out of control energies accidentally leaked through as the Chaos Wave:
the wave collided with Otherworld which again is marked out as being connected to all realities (thanks to the Phoenix Force):
See Otherworld as a multiversal support column, when the the Chaos Wave hit this column and shook it up, parts of the structure it was connected with collapsed:
Or you could see the wave as a shout in the alps, that de-stabilizes a great mound of snow and [B]TRIGGERS
an avalanche(the collapse of some realities).The wave never collapsed realities directly of its own power, it just destabilised a keystone of reality which is Otherworld, which triggered the collapse.
The wave was later stopped by Excalibur, no great powers needed to get involved. The wave was only a threat because it struck suddenly without warning.
It could never have collapsed realities directly (going by how easily it was stopped and by the power level of those who stopped it) it instead destabilized Otherworld.
Yes you have seen heroes and what looked to be an alternate reality Galactus fall victim to the destruction, but they were taken out by the collapse of their realities, not by the wave directly. They knew nothing of the wave and as shown by Meggan if they confronted it directly could no doubt have dealt with it. Its just like if i shouted in the Alps and caused an avalanche which swept across a nearby town killing many residents, residents who no doubt together or even some individually could kick my ass, the fact that i triggered something that caused their destruction doesnt make me greater than them. Could i walk around that town shouting down buildings and shouting people to death? 😂
The chaos wave was a powerful time/space anomaly, however it was not as all powerful or unstoppable as it has been hyped up to be by posters who dont bother to really think about what they read and are instead just satisfied with pretty pictures 😬
Wanda never had anything directly to do with it, it was an accident she knew nothing about, something her direct creation(House of M) triggered. Even if she had directly created it, it still wasnt as big a deal as you think and ive shown that. It didnt do a lot of damage on its own directly, it messed up Otherworld and thats that. This collision then went on to spiral into something bigger than what the Chaos Wave ever could do directly and thats simply because of Otherworlds connection to all realities as established by the Phoenix Force 😉 [/B]
Originally posted by GalacticStormIts role in cyclic destruction and recreation of the cosmos does not put it above eternity at the current satage in the universe's life. Seen as every reality has a phoenix force, if we consider them all expressions of the same entity, then we can speak of a multiphoenix sure, just like we can speak of a multieternity. I would say multiphoenix is below multieternity.
The Wave triggered effects across all existence but it had no direct part in the destruction apart from colliding with Otherworld. Otherworld was made a keystone of existence when the Phoenix Force linked it to all realities. Thus by striking Otherworld as stated and shown, the wave triggered further destruction in other realities.The Phoenix Force is far from below Eternity in current continuity. Its avatars have been empowered to manipulate all that Eternity is within the palm of their hands.
The latest handbook calls the Force multiversal and numerous on panel accounts by reputable characters such as Death, Roma, the Watcher, Kubik and Reed Richards refer to it as the Big Bang, the power source of reality and that without it there would be no reality, nothing but a void.
Originally posted by 753
Its role in cyclic destruction and recreation of the cosmos does not put it above eternity at the current satage in the universe's life. Seenas every relaity has a phoenix force, if we consider them all expressions of the same entity then we can speak of a multiphoenix sure, just like we can speak of a multieternity. I would say multiphoenix is below multieternity.
Youre making the assumption that specific role is the be all and end all of the Phoenix. As well as perpetuating the creation cycle, the Phoenix Force as stated is those very creation energies from which reality derives, from which concepts are given meaning enabling the existence of the abstracts. The difference between Eternity and the Phoenix is that it is literally those creation energies gone sentient, whereas Eternity is a concept given meaning by the Big Bang and his powers derive from its energies.
That is why as stated on panel by Death, without the Phoenix Force, there is a void, there is no Eternity. 🙂
