Dark Phoenix vs Scarlet Witch

Originally posted by 753
He held the phoenix force in his hands (since holding things in one's hands seems like a huge deal here) and it was obvious how far beyond it he was. The megaverse thing is from a different comic, but it's in his respect thread.

Manipulating a universe down to its components atoms and materializing it in your hand is a bit more than just holding something in your hand, hence the significance placed on Jeans feat.

However youre right, you could understandably interpret that What If scene as suggestive of a greater authority. Thats not in doubt, all im saying is that whilst he is held in such high regard and his role gives him authority of all, feats wise hes lacking.

You got a link to this megaverse thing, the forum search function isnt working for me 🙁

There was a databook entry saying he held a megaverse in each hand as well, iirc.

@753 and GalacticStorm

Be careful bringing up What If's when dealing with the PF and the LT.

Sure he held the PF in his hands, I can hold a grenade in my hands too. But if it goes off, I'm pretty much dead.

Bringing in that What If showing as if the LT >>>>>>>>>>>>> PF means you validate all other What If showing of the LT and the PF.

We have the PF destroying whole universes in What If's effortlessly. Then again we have the LT running with his tail between his legs from Korvac.

The best power output we've seen from him was from that What If issue with Korvac where his "ultimate punishment" was making a star go nova. We've seen DP do that very thing in 616 and Rachel/Necrom do WAY WAY more than that too.

Originally posted by zopzop
@753 and GalacticStorm

Be careful bringing up What If's when dealing with the PF and the LT.

Sure he held the PF in his hands, I can hold a grenade in my hands too. But if it goes off, I'm pretty much dead.

Bringing in that What If showing as if the LT >>>>>>>>>>>>> PF means you validate all other What If showing of the LT and the PF.

We have the PF destroying whole universes in What If's effortlessly. Then again we have the LT running with his tail between his legs from Korvac.

The best power output we've seen from him was from that What If issue with Korvac where his "ultimate punishment" was making a star go nova. We've seen DP do that very thing in 616 and Rachel/Necrom do WAY WAY more than that too.

Well put 👆

Originally posted by zopzop
@753 and GalacticStorm

Be careful bringing up What If's when dealing with the PF and the LT.

Sure he held the PF in his hands, I can hold a grenade in my hands too. But if it goes off, I'm pretty much dead.

Bringing in that What If showing as if the LT >>>>>>>>>>>>> PF means you validate all other What If showing of the LT and the PF.

We have the PF destroying whole universes in What If's effortlessly. Then again we have the LT running with his tail between his legs from Korvac.

The best power output we've seen from him was from that What If issue with Korvac where his "ultimate punishment" was making a star go nova. We've seen DP do that very thing in 616 and Rachel/Necrom do WAY WAY more than that too.

The LT is the same for all realities, he is never not canon:

http://img524.imageshack.us/i/lt2cm.jpg/

High or low showings, he remains the same character. Destroynig universes shouldnt be beyond the scope of the phoenix in principle either, it is the one supposed to end and recreate the cosmos after all. This doesnt mean the PF can simply decide tol finish a given Eternity, let alone Multieternity, regardless of surrounding circumstances.

The Megaverse thing comes from these two:

http://img405.imageshack.us/i/omniis1cz2.jpg/

http://img339.imageshack.us/i/ltkz7.jpg/

One decribes multiverse clusters as megaverses, and the other states he oversees reality clusters including the one humans inhabit - so one could conclude he watchs over several multiverses making up the marvel megaverse (in this case the omniverse would include DC, etc) or that he wathces over several megaverses that make up a marvel omniverse, which is how I view it

Originally posted by 753
The LT is the same for all realities, he is never not canon:

http://img524.imageshack.us/i/lt2cm.jpg/

High or low showings, he remains the same character. Destroynig universes shouldnt be beyond the scope of the phoenix in principle either, it is the one supposed to end and recreate the cosmos after all. This doesnt mean the PF can simply decide tol finish a given Eternity, let alone Multieternity, regardless of surrounding circumstances.

The Megaverse thing comes from these two:

http://img405.imageshack.us/i/omniis1cz2.jpg/

http://img339.imageshack.us/i/ltkz7.jpg/

One decribes multiverse clusters as megaverses, and the other states he oversees reality clusters including the one humans inhabit - so one could conclude he watchs over several multiverses making up the marvel megaverse (in this case the omniverse would include DC, etc) or that he wathces over several megaverses that make up a marvel omniverse, which is how I view it

No one was denying that LT is the same being throughout the multiverse, Zopzop was just making the point that because he is the same, he has low showings throughout existence that make him look inferior to lower powers such as the Korvac situation which count.

Also i believe youve misunderstood the term megaverse, in fact much of that paragraph youve shown in that scan.

A megaverse is a universe from a multiverse outside of the 616 multiverse, which doesnt share the same cosmic hierarchy as 616 and its divergents Earths, but is more closely linked to Marvel than any other multiverse such as DC.

This would therefore include the New Universe and Marvels Shadowline. Here is a link from the handbook writers that will help you to understand it better-

http://www.marvunapp.com/list/app8162.htm

megaverse

Group of alternate universes which is larger than a multiverse, encompassing realities with a certain closeness, such as all those associated with Marvel.

From Marvel.com

Originally posted by 753
Destroynig universes shouldnt be beyond the scope of the phoenix in principle either, it is the one supposed to end and recreate the cosmos after all. This doesnt mean the PF can simply decide tol finish a given Eternity, let alone Multieternity, regardless of surrounding circumstances.

Yes it does and thats exactly what Jean Grey did with not just a reality, but a timeline the Phoenix Consciousness deemed unhealthy for the multiverse within the New X-men series.

The Phoenix empowers its avatars to manipulate the entire matter of universes within the palm of their hands, to cut timelines and then regrow a more desirable future via event manipulation.

The Phoenix Force is conclusively greater than Eternity, however it appears it comes under LT's jurisdiction, however the Force has far greater feats of power.

Originally posted by Mindset
From Marvel.com

A lot of content on Marvel.com is as reputable as wikipedia. Im a member and could potentially write content on the site.

Marvunapp is the site of the handbook writers and the site is referred to within the handbooks themselves.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
No one was denying that LT is the same being throughout the multiverse, Zopzop was just making the point that because he is the same, he has low showings throughout existence that make him look inferior to lower powers such as the Korvac situation which count.

Also i believe youve misunderstood the term megaverse, in fact much of that paragraph youve shown in that scan.

A megaverse is a universe from a multiverse outside of the 616 multiverse, which doesnt share the same cosmic hierarchy as 616 and its divergents Earths, but is more closely linked to Marvel than any other multiverse such as DC.

This would therefore include the New Universe and Marvels Shadowline. Here is a link from the handbook writers that will help you to understand it better-

http://www.marvunapp.com/list/app8162.htm

As I see it:

All divergent timelines that are variations of one another make up a multiverse, a collection of multiverses with similar abstract concepts make up a megaverse and the collections of megaverses (each one with radically distinct abstratcs), make up the omniverse.

...going with Dark Phoenix on this one.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
A lot of content on Marvel.com is as reputable as wikipedia. Im a member and could potentially write content on the site.

Marvunapp is the site of the handbook writers and the site is referred to within the handbooks themselves.

From the site:

The above classification system was devised (at least in part) by Mark Gruenwald. However, it does seem to be missing one element. We have coined the term Megaverse to include realms associated with a particular line of comics, etc., but outside of the Multiverse. This would include such realms as the New Universe, Earth-Shadowline, etc. These realms lack the cosmic beings of the mainstream Multiverse, yet they are still more closely tied to other Marvel Universes than those of other comic lines (such as DC). Thus they are included within the Marvel Megaverse.
Mega - "big" (used to imply a larger grouping than the Multiverse).

http://www.marvunapp.com/list/appalte.htm

Originally posted by 753
I posted both interpretations of megaverse. The idea that all marvel crap is a megaverse and that it along with DC and would make up an omniverse would have some basis in handbook quotes that seem to reference the marvel vs dc travesty, the brothers etc. It may just be an older term for omniverse though.

As I see it:

All divergent timelines that are variations of one another make up a multiverse, a collection of multiverses with similar abstract concepts make up a megaverse and the collections of megaverses (each one with radically distinct abstratcs), make up the omniverse.

Nah. Marvels multiverse is the core universe along with its divergent realities.

Other Marvel properties that dont fit into the Marvel multiverse such as the New Universe and Shadowline make up Megaverses. Universe outside Marvels multiverse but they are more closely linked to Marvel than any other multiverse.

"No more Phoenix"
POOF!

Originally posted by Mindset
That may be, but in any case, a Megaverse is larger than a multiverse, which is what I was really trying to get at.

Thats the point which i had issue with. Its not, it doesnt say that in the handbooks or on the site of the handbook writers. Both of those two sources have a consistent explanation of a megaverse.

Marvel.com is full of fan contributions as i said i could potentially go on there and write content. In no official marvel publication has it been stated that a megaverse is anything other realms outside marvels multiverse but still belonging to marvel. Nowhere.

Sounds to me like some fan contributor misunderstood the official definitions given by the handbook writers and posted what you quoted. 😬

Look at my edit.

Originally posted by Mshinu
"No more Phoenix"
POOF!

The chicks ultimate output is a botched reality alteration brought about with the help of Xaviers powers and able to be seen through by Wolverine. She's no Phoenix, no Eternity, shes not even cosmic cube level.

You misinterpreted. Do better 🙂

Originally posted by Mindset
Look at my edit.

Your edit is what i linked to previously.

However what youve done is post the incorrect statement and then linked to the marvunapp site as if it supports it.

It doesnt.

The statement about a megaverse being bigger is not supported in the handbooks or on marvunapp.

As i said previously, its is a term for realms and universes depicted in Marvel properties such as the New Universe which are outside the main multiverse we're familiar with.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Your edit is what i linked to previously.

However what youve done is post the incorrect statement and then linked to the marvunapp site as if it supports it.

It doesnt.

The statement about a megaverse being bigger is not supported in the handbooks or on marvunapp.

As i said previously, its is a term for realms and universes depicted in Marvel properties such as the New Universe which are outside the main multiverse we're familiar with.

"Mega - "big" (used to imply a larger grouping than the Multiverse)."

Originally posted by Mindset
The statement I posted is from the site... 😬

You posted the fan statement about the megaverse being bigger alongside the official statement from the handbooks and marvunapp. This fan has obviously misunderstood the part where it breaks down the meaning of megaverse and explains that mega means bigger and therefore the term encompasses a bigger grouping of Marvels properties as opposed to multiverse which covers 616 and its divergent realities.

THAT is where the misunderstanding has come from. Marvunapp and the handbooks have never ever stated a megaverse is bigger. A contributor has after reading their definition has.