The Living Tribunal Vs. The Phoenix Force

A cosmic battle, no holds bar between LT and the Phoenix Force.

Which being takes this?

these cosmic battles are really boring. Both of them can't die, are immortal, are basic fundamental forces/entities of the multiverse, and can't "lose" in a meaningful sense.

hmmmm wow this is pretty tuff i would probably say The Living Tribunal for now but ima wait and see what some others say about this later and then come back and decide 😄

Originally posted by FieryBalrog
these cosmic battles are really boring. Both of them can't die, are immortal, are basic fundamental forces/entities of the multiverse, and can't "lose" in a meaningful sense.

It doesn't mean there can't be a winner.

Yes, it actually does mean there can't be a winner.

Both forces are basically controlled by TOAA, he wouldn't allow them to fight.
If they did fight, they'd not be serving their purpose....therefore they both cease to exist.

Its just a heirarchy question. What kind of battle would it be? one that is incomprehensible. You cant devise scenarios like "well spiderman would sling his web and throw sabertooth around" or "wolverine would slice through catwoman like a knife through hot butter". Its just a question of "well the LT is 2nd in rank and PF is say... 5th so LT wins!"

Exactly. I HATE cosmic battles. So boring. We can only base on who is gonna "win" by hierarchy as FieryBalrog said. He/She is the ONLY one who had the stones to admit it in my opinion.

As for this battle I don't know.

Originally posted by Draco69
Exactly. I HATE cosmic battles. So boring. We can only base on who is gonna "win" by hierarchy as FieryBalrog said. He/She is the ONLY one who had the stones to admit it in my opinion.

Then why don't we? Either there's a winner or one's more powerful than the other. 😉

LT cages the Phoenix like a canary and bitchslaps her to destruction...or shuts the universe down on her.

Pick one.

PF>LT

Originally posted by Xplosive
PF>LT

Thanos with HOTU (God's power) said that LT is highest in the food chain

As I said elsewhere,the Phoenix is not a being,is a force.It can only act through avatars.I think that at the highest level (white phoenix of the crown) an avatar is probably behind the LT,but nearly there.The force as a whole may be more "powerful" but ultimately,LT has been appointed ruler of the Multiverse,while whitout the PF there wouldnt be a Multiverse at all,so it has not much sense putting them against each other.
As for the HOTU,it has been said by Marvel that it happened in an alternate reality.Thanos referred to the End in his series,so its possible that it also happened in the normal MU with some differences.Anyway,the very fact that the power of God is split in several different realities (and if I rememeber correctly Thanos fought Akhenaton-both had conquered the HotU in different timelines) should be very SUSPECT.

Originally posted by markolin
As I said elsewhere,the Phoenix is not a being,is a force.It can only act through avatars.I think that at the highest level (white phoenix of the crown) an avatar is probably behind the LT,but nearly there.The force as a whole may be more "powerful" but ultimately,LT has been appointed ruler of the Multiverse,while whitout the PF there wouldnt be a Multiverse at all,so it has not much sense putting them against each other.
As for the HOTU,it has been said by Marvel that it happened in an alternate reality.Thanos referred to the End in his series,so its possible that it also happened in the normal MU with some differences.Anyway,the very fact that the power of God is split in several different realities (and if I rememeber correctly Thanos fought Akhenaton-both had conquered the HotU in different timelines) should be very SUSPECT.

LT can do what he must, while like you said Phoenix Force need avatar to act.

LT is highest force in MU beside Thanos with HOTU ( Thanos said that himself) and Phoenix might be as important as LT in terms of it’s role in the Multiverse , in terms of Power LT wins

The HOTU is going the same road of the Beyonder and the Infinity Gauntlet.Both the LT and the Phoenix Force exist outside the Multiverse.The avatars get incarnated by jumping back in the Universe below.The fact that in a timeline Thanos has the HOTU,another one Akhenaton has it,another one Thanos but maybe
the story has gone a bit differently,another one maybe Dr.Doom succeded in obtaining it,means that the HOTU has been pretty much scaled down to giving absolute power on a single universe.Just like the Infinity Gauntlet,which started out giving absolute power of reality,time and space and now has been retconned into giving power only over a single Universe (so only a particular spacetime and a single reality,not all the countless alternate realities/spacetimes).If you're God only in a particular timeline you're not really God at all.

The fact of having to use avatars does not necessarily mean that the PF is inferior. Stands to reason that multiversal beings cannot fully manifest into a single Universe.Lt uses M-bodies to manifest itself.And the Lt has not been shown so overpowering on single Multiverses.Ereshkigal with the Starbrand stalemated him.He decided not to confront Korvac when he conquered an alternate universe,but merely sealed it from contact with the rest of the Multiverse.In the GOTG timeline the Protege copied his power,and so on.It has never been shown omnipotent.

So?
My point?
AS I said,a White Phoenix of the Crown is probably below the LT,but above anything else,since Jean as White Phoenix held a Universe in her hand.
The Phoenix Force itself cannot fight,but cannot be beaten.

Originally posted by markolin
The HOTU is going the same road of the Beyonder and the Infinity Gauntlet.Both the LT and the Phoenix Force exist outside the Multiverse.The avatars get incarnated by jumping back in the Universe below.The fact that in a timeline Thanos has the HOTU,another one Akhenaton has it,another one Thanos but maybe
the story has gone a bit differently,another one maybe Dr.Doom succeded in obtaining it,means that the HOTU has been pretty much scaled down to giving absolute power on a single universe.Just like the Infinity Gauntlet,which started out giving absolute power of reality,time and space and now has been retconned into giving power only over a single Universe (so only a particular spacetime and a single reality,not all the countless alternate realities/spacetimes).If you're God only in a particular timeline you're not really God at all.

The fact of having to use avatars does not necessarily mean that the PF is inferior. Stands to reason that multiversal beings cannot fully manifest into a single Universe.Lt uses M-bodies to manifest itself.And the Lt has not been shown so overpowering on single Multiverses.Ereshkigal with the Starbrand stalemated him.He decided not to confront Korvac when he conquered an alternate universe,but merely sealed it from contact with the rest of the Multiverse.In the GOTG timeline the Protege copied his power,and so on.It has never been shown omnipotent.

So?
My point?
AS I said,a White Phoenix of the Crown is probably below the LT,but above anything else,since Jean as White Phoenix held a Universe in her hand.
The Phoenix Force itself cannot fight,but cannot be beaten.

IG > Universe and all it’s forces (eternity, death, chaos, order , galactus , celestials)

LT > IG

HOTU > LT > IG > Universal powers

HOTU power is resisted by nothing (thanos said that himself there was nobody to challenge his powers)

He was all there is. (He was spider-man), eternity, death etc. there was no higher power them him.

Dr.Doom didn’t’ succeed he failed, Akhenaton got his ass kicked by thanos.

HOTU = God in power (Lt , Eternity etc were no match) Thanos said he is everything there is no power that was beyond him.

Now as for Phoenix force like you said it need avatars to act and it cannot fight therefore LT wins.

Where was Phoenix Force when Thanos with IG was making all the entities his *****, Phoenix Force couldn’t act because Phoenix need avatars to act.

Now how can LT = Phoenix Force if Phoenix force can’t even act.
And am not denying its role in the multiverse.

She is represent life in the Multiverse , LT is the guardian of it.

Originally posted by kgkg
LT > Control over the multiverse

IG > Universe and all it’s forces (eternity, death, chaos, order , galactus , celestials)

LT > IG

HOTU > LT > IG > Universal powers

HOTU power is resisted by nothing (thanos said that himself there was nobody to challenge his powers)

He was all there is. (He was spider-man), eternity, death etc. there was no higher power them him.

Dr.Doom didn’t’ succeed he failed, Akhenaton got his ass kicked by thanos.

HOTU = God in power (Lt , Eternity etc were no match) Thanos said he is everything there is no power that was beyond him.

Now as for Phoenix force like you said it need avatars to act and it cannot fight therefore LT wins.

Where was Phoenix Force when Thanos with IG was making all the entities his *****, Phoenix Force couldn’t act because Phoenix need avatars to act.

Now how can LT = Phoenix Force if Phoenix force can’t even act.
And am not denying its role in the multiverse.

She is represent life in the Multiverse , LT is the guardian of it.

kgkg is kicking a$$...but is he taking names aswell?

Originally posted by kgkg
how can you say that?

Thanos with HOTU (God's power) said that LT is highest in the food chain

PF is incarantion of TOAA, so yes PF>LT.

What? Who told you that?

Originally posted by Lord S
What? Who told you that?

Recent comic books.

Can you provide some details?