Originally posted by Red Superfly
Dumb luck? This is Lucas we are talking about here.Anakin's dumb luck in Episode I where he instinctively pressed the right buttons to fly a ship into the Trade Feds control thingy, and blow it up is Lucas way of telling us that it was the force.
Palpatine had the instinct that Anakin would return, his instincts served him well obviously. Someone as wise as Palpatine would be smart enough to foresee Anakins decision and his impecable timing. Luck had nothing to do with it.
That is one explanation. Dumb luck is never dumb luck in the Star Wars galaxy.
The jury is out on this one. I perosnally think Sidious led Mace into thinking he could be beat, and tempted him into finishing him off, in order to force Anakin into his ultimate decision. I really believe Sidious had Mace eating out of the palm of his hand on this one.
I won't throw out the fact that Anakin merely saved Palps from Mace's wrath, either, I am as of yet undecided completely, but from here, I believe Sidious set Mace's ass up.
That's the whole point- it would HAVE to have been dumb luck, because Mace could have easily killed Sidious both durng and after that fight. Sidious lost his sabre! That is BEYOND palnning. After that he is defenceless. Mace could so easily have finished it there. No way did Palpatine plan that.
Hence it was not dumb luck... because that was not the plan.
There is not a chance in hell Palpatine would have been willing to nearly die like that.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
That's the whole point- it would HAVE to have been dumb luck, because Mace could have easily killed Sidious both durng and after that fight. Sidious lost his sabre! That is BEYOND palnning. After that he is defenceless. Mace could so easily have finished it there. No way did Palpatine plan that.Hence it was not dumb luck... because that was not the plan.
There is not a chance in hell Palpatine would have been willing to nearly die like that.
DEFENSELESS??? you call being able to summon and fire lightening from your hands defenseless? Good lord, he SPRANG UP, YELLED "Unlimited power!" and fired SOOOOO much lightening at Mace that it through him half a mile away. Yeah....I can see why you'd call him defenseless. 🙄
The force has nothing to do with recovery. We saw in ESB when Luke tried to move the X-Wing that a person can become fatigued, physically and mentally, while/by/in connection with using the force (true, Luke didn't know what he was doing completely at the time as Yoda showed him, but it's equivalent to a person used to running 10 miles getting exhausted when trying to run 20, and then successfully running 20 with ease after more training). Did the force help Luke recover then? No! If Palpatine really lost, he would have been too exhausted from giving everything he had to trying to fry Windu and he would not have been able to recover and yell "Unlimited Power!" while using lightning even stronger than he did at first! (great point mephisto)
Originally posted by Ushgarak
There is not a chance in hell Palpatine would have been willing to nearly die like that.
Are you sure?
I get what you are saying, but we all know how confident Palpatine is.
We know he is headstrong, and has a will of iron, and unmatched arrogance. We know the force is directly linked to the user's will.
To me anyway, Palpatine's utter arrogance led him to believe Anakin would come to his rescue, see that he was in mortal danger, and save him.
Palpatine knew that Anakin was hesitant. He needed to do something that would make Anakin decide there and then. What better way than to make him decide between letting die an old friend, or saving him? How about swaying his decision by making it look as though the Jedi are the aggressors? That would make sense.
I don't want to make Palpatine out to be some sort of God, but he knew even if he lowerred his guard, Mace could not kill him, Anakin would be there. Palpatine's confidence became his will.
The fact that this outline heavily mirrors the situation in ROTJ where Luke shows the Emperor just how overly confident he is, tells us that he has a reason to be over confident. Palpatine, up until ROTJ, has always had his way, he thinks he's invincible, because he has proven to HIMSELF that his will cannot be undone. His confidence in ROTJ comes from the fact he has NEVER lost. The only kink in his armour is Vader himself and the love for his son.
Thats why I think the Emperor owned the day.
Originally posted by koolruningz
The other masters Mace took with him may as well have stayed back at the temple. They were hopeless, Mace would have been better taking Anakin at least he would have been some help. I guess thats not the story though is it?
No Mace needed to have those masters to back him up. They were there to arrest an alledge Sith Lord. Mace Windu had to resort to back up. Anakin reported to Mace that Palpatine was a sith lord. Fearing that Anakin would turn agaisn't him (which he did eventually) Mace order him to stay.
Which returns to the entire matter of if Mace had just showed comradery for ONCE in his life to Anakin, given that they are BROTHERS in a very real sense, Anakin would have felt important, felt cared about, felt like he was being treated like an adult instead of a five year old, and helped Windu annihalate Sidious and ended 20 years of oppression before it began. As bad as the council in general treated Anakin (not all of it unjustified but by no means justified either), Mace was by far the worst. That's reason enough he's not the best Jedi.... the hardest/toughest is another question I realize....
Originally posted by DeVi| D0do
Yeah, of course he'd have been better off taking Anakin... that's the point isn't it? The jedi don't trust Anakin, which leads to his and their undoings...
My point was more geared towards how useless the other 3 masters were. I thought they would have put up a better fight.