Palpatine and Mace Windu Debate [Merged]

Originally posted by orkaz
nah I'm sorry but yoda was the most powerful force user, and a hell of a duelist... i think he could of beat any sith out there, he didnt loose any of his battle but he didnt win either, he only fled from the emperor because hed lost his saber, of corse if he fought him some where else he would of won... he had to flee because every1 in the republic wanted him ded, there was armies lukin 4 him... also take a look at his age, imagine him in his prime he would of killed sidious in an instant!

You believe Yoda is stronger but i believe not(matter of opinion).
Sidious equal Yoda in saber skill and has the advantage of offensive forcepowers. Overall they are equal. Where Sidious has the advantage in forcepowers, Yoda have in wisdom and experience.

It amuse me to see many folks speaking as Yoda is the ultimate bad ass but you are not George Lucas.. Thus anything is speculation at best.

Hey lightside fan! perhaps you should know that Yoda wasn't capable to beat Sidious... For a being having an age of 860-70 years with all wisdom and experience not able to kill Sidious who him, must have 70-90 years of age(speculation) prove that either Lightside sucks in potential or this E.T. is an assholes who have to wait that long to become strong. Now just think a minute, a Sith Lord having 500, 600 or 700 years with all the wisdom and experience combined with Darkside powers, such a type would kick in Yoda teeth's and rip his ears in the same time, laughing while going away. 😈

Vanquish.

Darth Maul took on TWO Jedi at once - and killed the Jedi Master.

Darth Tyranus took on TWO Jedi Knights at once. And emerged victorious. EASILY. And he also went toe-to-toe with Yoda.

Darth Tyranus then took on the same two Jedi AGAIN - and it required BOTH of them to kill him. And he rendered the Jedi MASTER unconscious.

Darth Sidious took out THREE Jedi MASTERS in THREE seconds. Then he triumphed over Mace Windu AND had a stalemate with Yoda. This VERY same Sith Lord orchestrated the destruction of the Jedi, corrupted the Chosen One, and TOOK OVER the galaxy.

Sorry. The JEDI aren't owning a THING.

Originally posted by Vanquish
And Palps isn't even that cool of a Sith anyway. I can't figure out why so many people are backing him up when they know the evidence in the movie DOESN'T back up their opinions of the Sith.

The fact is, Siths are strong yes, but Jedi's ARE stronger. Think about it. Darth Maul lost to a Jedi Padawan. Dooku lost to a Jedi, who at the time, lets call him a dark Jedi. Then, Obi wan beat the dark Jedi who beat Dooku. Another Sith is overpowered by a Jedi. Then, Mace Windu kicked the living Shit out of the Sith Lord. I don't give a shit how many people say he was baiting Anakin. The movie doesn't support that. Palps tried his best, and got ROCKED by a Jedi. And lastly, Yoda did beat palps, I don't care what anyone says. If palps didn't have the entire republic on his side, I'm quite sure Yoda would have just hunted him down like the useless dog he is and finished it. Yoda IS the most powerful force in the universe hands down. But even he can't beat an army. So he fled, but he won. So again, Sith LOSES to Jedi.

Face it Sith lovers, the Jedi's are OWNING the Sith.

And for anyone who is going to come back and say that Siths have beat Jedi's too. Yes true, but none of them were in their prime fighting and losing. There are thousands of Jedi's and not all of them are good. We are talking about fully trained and ready to fight Jedi's OWNING siths. And siths don't fight until they are fully trained. How sad...

mouahahah don't think so. Maul was killed because of his arrogance, he fight two jedi at the same time and kick them both.

Sidious was first to own Mace killing by the way those 3 supposely great master Jedi in seconds then he beat Mace and pointed his saber at him while Windu hands up; a little further and Mace would not be there any more, see...

Dooku lost to Anakin because the latter used hate and anger as Dooku told him to do so. Darkside permitted him to triumphed(sp?) over Dooku otherwise it might be different. Oh btw Dooku beat twice Obi-wan and i must say very easily.

To be just two at the same time might sucks compare to thousand of jedi but Sidious was smart enough to create an army to kill your precious jedi.. How funny is that? 😆

In the end, Jedi's wasn't knowing all of the manipulations of Palpatine and anything else for that matter; moreover the jedi was becoming weaker than ever! Clouded by the Darkside, whoops... just one guy to get the job done, how hard that must be for u lightside lover's? 😱

Sidious win, Yoda loose and the Sith with the new Empire rule the galaxy once more. 🤣

Originally posted by Emperor
You believe Yoda is stronger but i believe not(matter of opinion).
Sidious equal Yoda in saber skill and has the advantage of offensive forcepowers. Overall they are equal. Where Sidious has the advantage in forcepowers, Yoda have in wisdom and experience.

It amuse me to see many folks speaking as Yoda is the ultimate bad ass but you are not George Lucas.. Thus anything is speculation at best.

Hey lightside fan! perhaps you should know that Yoda wasn't capable to beat Sidious... For a being having an age of 860-70 years with all wisdom and experience not able to kill Sidious who him, must have 70-90 years of age(speculation) prove that either Lightside sucks in potential or this E.T. is an assholes who have to wait that long to become strong. Now just think a minute, a Sith Lord having 500, 600 or 700 years with all the wisdom and experience combined with Darkside powers, such a type would kick in Yoda teeth's and rip his ears in the same time, laughing while going away. 😈

oo...k u keep goin on about wisdon and him having 860 years experience, he died in episode 6 of natural causes because he was old, he could hav all the epirence you want but when ure old ure not as powerful m8, if yoda faught him in his prime hed destroy him, based on your theroy, ian rush should still be playin professional football, it would be like me fighting an 80 year old man wif a hip replacement and a walkin stick, yoda is the boy-o, if the emperor wasnt a crucial character fot the ot he would of been killedby yoda!!!!

Well, Vanquish lost all credibility there. In Revenge of The Sith (think about the title of the movie for five seconds) the SITH win. The JEDI lose.

Palpatine (Sith) eliminates the Jedi Order, establishes his Galactic Empire, and takes over the galaxy. Meanwhile, all remaining Jedi KNOW that they are no match for the Empire, so they run and hide.

This is becoming a bit obtuse. There are only a select few who can make a good argument here. Lazer seems the only intelligent person I have seen who can make an argument for the Light Side.

Jack Daniels, Vanquish, and everyone else have NO proof to insinuate that Palpatine was DEFEATED. HOW? Did he die? Was the Empire stopped? Did Yoda stay and take out the clones? Did Obi-Wan KILL Vader? Did Yoda KILL Palpatine?

You all are like 5-year old children. You have NO proof, yet you think your opinions are law, and that you don't require EVIDENCE to support your ideas.

You all live in a world based on "what ifs". Such as, IF Yoda did not take the fall, he would've won. Well - guys - he TOOK the fall. He ESCAPED. HE FAILED. Failed to stop Palpatine, failed to sense Palpatine, and failed to stop the Empire.

I live on a world based on what actually happens. REALITY. We can all say "What IF" Yoda didn't take the fall. Or "What If" Anakin did not show up to confront Mace.

But they BOTH happened. Lord above, I've pretty much shot down ALL of your petty ideas that "Oh Yoda OWNED Palpatine" or "The Jedi OWN the Sith"

You're talking about what occured in Revenge of The Sith. Face it. George Lucas wrote the movie with NO happy ending. The good guys LOSE this time. Yes. LOSE. Their objectives FAILED. Palpatine's did NOT.

HE WON. WON. WON. WON.

Palpatine is a supremely powerful Force-user. But above anything else, he is a manipulator. He is a mastermind. In terms of strategy, NO JEDI can hold a candle to him.

He manipulated them from the very beginning, since The Phantom Menace. There are only TWO Sith. And HUNDREDS of Jedi. And yet all of them failed to sense Palpatine. Some of you say, "Well The Dark Side Clouds Everything". No KIDDING. Palpatine USES the Dark Side. Therefore it is because of PALPATINE that the Jedi were blinded.

So I have to ask YOU. "If The Jedi are so powerful, then how did they not sense Palpatine". I doubt none of you can answer that question without using any proof. Indeed, I expect most of you to go into a childish fit and make excuses.

Palpatine was clever. The Jedi were blinded. Yes. The Jedi were powerful. I do not, nor have I EVER, denied that Yoda and Mace were powerful people. They ARE. You all make it sound like Palpatine is weak. And to me, you have no sense in arguing if you believe any Jedi OWNED the Sith, or vice versa.

It is amazing. How a single Sith Lord orchestrated the destruction of hundreds of Jedi, and they failed to sense it. Palpatine was smarter than the Jedi guys. I didn't say more powerful. I said smarter. And he was. And you have NO proof to prove otherwise. 😄

Palpatine, in the Force, was superior to Mace - and Yoda was too. I didn't see Mace catch Force lightning and throw it back. He required his lightsabre.

Palpatine is SO POWERFUL in The Force, that he even possesses the skill of Battle Meditation (as shown in the Expanded Universe and books). Yoda, nor Mace, nor Obi Wan, nor Luke, nor Anakin ever had this power.

Palpatine created the most powerful empire in galactic history, according to the Star Wars site. And orchestrated it's creation BY HIMSELF.

And for the umpteenth time. Vader killed Palpatine...

1. Anakin/Vader is the Chosen One. It was foretold that he was to kill Palpatine. It was his overall destiny.

2. Vader also DIED in the attempt! Palpatine had his back to him, and was intent on torturing Luke. So Vader picked Palpatine up and tossed him down the reactor shaft. But lookie lookie! He died when Palpatine mortally wounded him via electrocution.

So Anakin - the Chosen One - couldn't even kill Palpatine - who you all think is weak - without dying in the process. Therefore, Palpatine OWNED Luke. And when Vader killed him, he killed Vader in return.

In conclusion, I am giving you an example of bias. In this particular explanation, I am biased. Yet one thing separates my conclusion from most of yours. I have PROOF to support my beliefs. I have seen nothing but pure ramblings from some of you. Your pride is probably hurt that your favorite - or preferred character - in this instance was defeated. So you defend him/her passionately, but without tactic or proof. So, your argument is just rants.

Whereas I have seen a few offer proof. Palpatine IS powerful. I don't know if I need to see that. I suppose if you don't believe he is either equal or superior to Yoda, then you should probably never watch Star Wars again. Because The Empire is in existance and dominating the galaxy, whereas your precious Jedi are either in exile or DEAD.

Thanks for participating. 😄

Mace did not necessarily NEED his lightsaber, he USED his lightsaber. Just because I peel an orange with a peeler it does not mean I required it.

I believe it is clearly a stretch to say that either Yoda or Palpatine was more powerful than the other. The duel itself is more than enough evidence to show that they are clearly equal.

Finally, I would ask something I have been thinking about lately: if Palpatine was so wise and so smart, he would not have been in such danger (which he was beyond control of) so often. No doubt he is smart and a very good strategist, but I believe he is given far too much credit. The perfect example is his near death (along with Obi-Wan and Anakin) on the flagship at the beginning of ROTS. This was completely beyond his control, and all three of them were very lucky to survive. Do not retort and say that he knew Anakin was a great pilot. The fact is he did not even plan to be captured in the ray-shielding, nevermind to have the ship suffer the damage/danger it did. Also, regardless of his control or manipulation of Anakin, it was very, very reckless to allow him to hold a lightsaber so close to him. No reaction time or force power would have saved him if Anakin was as decisive/aggresive as Mace Windu, or many other Jedi, whom would have struck down Palpatine right there. It is also incredibly stupid for him to seek out an apprentice more powerful than him. To have a worthy, powerful, and loyal apprentice is very wise. His selection of Anakin was careless and stupid. He himself said that they boy would grow powerful and destroy him. His only only defense against Anakin would be loyalty, a loyalty that Anakin did NOT have (e.g., telling Padme he would destroy Palpatine). Palpatine was clearly not wise enough to expect this or well enough in the force to sense this. The reason Anakin never overthrew him in 20 years was that he was not powerful enough after his injuries. Did he create Anakin? We don't know, some say yes, others no, but if he did this also shows a total lack of thought on the part of Palpatine. To create someone capable of destroying you is a very, very unwise, in fact stupid, thing to do. There are countless other moments throughout PT where Palpatine was in great danger that was beyond his control completely. As powerul as he is, which is quite, there is still a limit to it. To risk such a dangerous, uncontrollable situation once or twice may (but likely is not) be good strategy if it is worth the prize, but to do so as often as Palpatine does is plain stupidity. What good is his plan if he is dead?

What's more, On the flagship, once Dooku was dead, the situation was COMPLETELY out of Palpatine's control, as well as his plan. He did not expect any of this. In fact, to go further, it would be correct to say that for him to be there on that ship in the first place was plain stupidity. It is clear that The Republic/Jedi see Dooku and Grievous as the key pieces to the Seperatists. They say that if these two are dead or captured that the entire war would be over! It would make perfect sense if some general ordered all units to ignore the rest of the seperatist fleet and focus on the flagship, destroying it. While the Jedi know the Chancellor is onboard, it is obvious that the army is still attacking the flagship, which would evidence that others do not know of this. Further, Palpatine had himself held on the spire, an easy, clear target for opposing ships! Very, very, very stupid.

Just so we are clear, let me reiterate that I am NOT saying Palpatine was not smart or that he did not fool and manipulate everybody. I am merely saying he was not quite so smart as too many people give him credit for. As intelligent as Hitler was, he was also incredibly stupid in many ways and helped to lose the war for Germany as a result; Palpatine was simply luckier.

It may be true that in the end Palpatine wins but that is not what this thread requests. It asks for directly whether or not Palpatine was an inferior master of the force to Yoda. So it matters not the outcome of the fight but rather what takes place during the encounter. For example let us say that I fight anyone of you people. well lets say I am stronger, faster, and a better fighter, but towards the end of the fight I fall over a rock and break my leg. Now i was winning the fight but in the end you won but everything happening up till then shows I was a better fighter the same logic applies here it asks who is superior not who won in the end because we already know Yoda ends up living in a swamp.
Now we all know Plaptine is smart, manical, and a bit lucky I must say but this in no way proves who is the better, and you can see this in my previous threads I rely only on what happens during the fight.
After reviewing everything I believe the only real facts is this on a scale of Palpatine being equal to Yoda or yoda being stronger there is no real evidence of Palatine being stronger. Now this is a scale bacause depending on point of view it slides between whether they were equal or yoda was way more powerful. I will shed more light later.
Now a step by step breakdown of the fight itself:
First the lightsabre duel is intense. It is shows that they are either a equal or Yoda has a slight adavantage I believe this is so because it shows Yoda as the agressor. Then Palpatine takes the fight to long range once again I think showing Palpatine did not want to fight close. Now in the begining Yoda is dodging trying to get close. When he sees that it isn't working he stops one of the pods thrown at him. He then throws it back.
Now Palpatine doesnot catch it and jumps out of the way. This either shows A) He was off guard and did not have time to react, but could have snatched once again showing they were equal or B) He couldn't have stopped showing Yoda is stonger.
Next Yoda once again tries to get in close then Palpatine lets loose what is obvious his most powerful lighting attack. Yoda took it and managed to A) defend against it till it blew up showing they are eqauls or B) took his most powerful attack and threw it back at him showing he is superior.
Now the hole fall happens the " falling over the rock and breaking your leg moment" Jsut because Yoda was unlucky does not prove he was weaker it just shows he was unlucky.
Then the whole guards come and Yoda runs away.
Now probably the only reason, besides the pod throwing part, I give it to Yoda is because he had a limited timeframe for his fight. He came in aiming for a qiuck kill, meaning he pretty much had to get in close and use his lightsabre. Now palpatine is smart enough to know to stay away from Yoda's sabre because it was his main way of killing Palpatine. Now this is important because now Yoda can not fight like he normally would. In another place he could probaly stay in long range fight and possibly wear down Palpatine and then go in for the kill, but this he could not do because of his time frame meaning we really did not get to possibly see Yoda in his true glory as a jedi master.

Originally posted by newjak86
It may be true that in the end Palpatine wins but that is not what this thread requests. It asks for directly whether or not Palpatine was an inferior master of the force to Yoda. So it matters not the outcome of the fight but rather what takes place during the encounter. For example let us say that I fight anyone of you people. well lets say I am stronger, faster, and a better fighter, but towards the end of the fight I fall over a rock and break my leg. Now i was winning the fight but in the end you won but everything happening up till then shows I was a better fighter the same logic applies here it asks who is superior not who won in the end because we already know Yoda ends up living in a swamp.
Now we all know Plaptine is smart, manical, and a bit lucky I must say but this in no way proves who is the better, and you can see this in my previous threads I rely only on what happens during the fight.
After reviewing everything I believe the only real facts is this on a scale of Palpatine being equal to Yoda or yoda being stronger there is no real evidence of Palatine being stronger. Now this is a scale bacause depending on point of view it slides between whether they were equal or yoda was way more powerful. I will shed more light later.
Now a step by step breakdown of the fight itself:
First the lightsabre duel is intense. It is shows that they are either a equal or Yoda has a slight adavantage I believe this is so because it shows Yoda as the agressor. Then Palpatine takes the fight to long range once again I think showing Palpatine did not want to fight close. Now in the begining Yoda is dodging trying to get close. When he sees that it isn't working he stops one of the pods thrown at him. He then throws it back.
Now Palpatine doesnot catch it and jumps out of the way. This either shows A) He was off guard and did not have time to react, but could have snatched once again showing they were equal or B) He couldn't have stopped showing Yoda is stonger.
Next Yoda once again tries to get in close then Palpatine lets loose what is obvious his most powerful lighting attack. Yoda took it and managed to A) defend against it till it blew up showing they are eqauls or B) took his most powerful attack and threw it back at him showing he is superior.
Now the hole fall happens the " falling over the rock and breaking your leg moment" Jsut because Yoda was unlucky does not prove he was weaker it just shows he was unlucky.
Then the whole guards come and Yoda runs away.
Now probably the only reason, besides the pod throwing part, I give it to Yoda is because he had a limited timeframe for his fight. He came in aiming for a qiuck kill, meaning he pretty much had to get in close and use his lightsabre. Now palpatine is smart enough to know to stay away from Yoda's sabre because it was his main way of killing Palpatine. Now this is important because now Yoda can not fight like he normally would. In another place he could probaly stay in long range fight and possibly wear down Palpatine and then go in for the kill, but this he could not do because of his time frame meaning we really did not get to possibly see Yoda in his true glory as a jedi master.

✅ ✅ ✅

32 pages... wow.

This debate seems to just be going round in circles...

Originally posted by DeVi| D0do
32 pages... wow.

This debate seems to just be going round in circles...

Both sides have pretty much made all their points and it is just people who haven't read all 32 pages ( 😂 ) posting old ideas or the old people arguing about the old ideas again.

Well, it would depend on your point of view. Most people here are Palpatine bashers. I have attempted to - on many occasions - to establish the very fact that Lucas designed the fight scene to be an example that Yoda and Palpatine are equal.

In terms of offensive, Palpatine's Force arsenal is BY FAR superior to Yoda's. Simply because - in battle - Palpatine is not defenseless without his lightsabre - whereas Jedi are.

In terms of defensive, I'd probably say Yoda. Yoda is the only Jedi who can reflect even the might of Palpatine's lightning - so we gotta give the little green fella props there. However, during the beginning of the fight, Yoda DID NOT manage to reflect Palpatine's lightning. And if you make an excuse for that...

1. Either Palpatine is always better prepared for battle than Yoda.
2. Yoda's attention span is considerably weaker than Palpatine's.

Pick.

And just let me say that you all excuse Yoda's failure on sheer bad luck. Well, apparently The Force wasn't favoring Yoda or the Jedi. I could say that Yoda reflecting Sidious's lightning was just "sheer bad luck" for Palpatine. Then. W00t. Got ya all there!

Palpatine did not know if he could triumph over Yoda - and being the evil mastermind that he is - he tried to flee. Afterall, when you have millions of henchmen and you're faced with your opposite equal in battle - why not put the aforementioned henchmen to use?

But Yoda stopped Palpatine. And they both had a lightsabre battle. I don't care WHAT you all say. But no one has the right to diss either of their lightsabre abilities. Palpatine can take down ANY Jedi with pure ease. Save for Windu or Yoda. Now think about that. Out of hundreds of Jedi, a single Sith Lord can't beat two. That's still pretty good.

In lightsabre combat, Palpatine, Yoda, Mace, and Dooku are all on a level of their own. Yoda just might be the top in terms of lightsabre combat. Dooku and Palpatine might just be equal. (But Dooku is a superior duelist to Mace, as per Star Wars site).

Now. Palpatine and Yoda had a quick battle. But Palpatine did not lose the fight. I seem to recall that he held his own. Now. Palpatine is tactically superior to the Jedi (great example: the whole fricken' Star Wars movies). So he gained the higher ground.

He threw pods. Yoda had to dodge them. Then he decided to defy gravity and throw one back. Palpatine - if you watch - was too busy laughing and being arrogant to acknowledge Yoda as a threat HERE. Then, after he opened his eyes in the wake of laughter, he saw the pod fly back at him. So he jumped.

Needless to say, in BOTH instances, neither the Sith Lord nor the Jedi Master were injured. Well, Yoda was. He fell down.

So. Yoda and Palpatine jump to a pod. Palpatine goes on the offensive and closes in on Yoda. Yoda keeps Palpatine's lightning at bay. But Palpatine gets closer. People say Yoda threw it back. Well, whatever. So if it did, the end is just the same.

Yoda and Palpatine BOTH go flying. Palpatine is larger than Yoda, so his fall is considerably less. Now. Lazer says Yoda went flying do to the kickback. Lazer, if he did, this was clearly not Yoda's intent. If not, then he's just as much a coward as Palpatine is.

Now. Palpatine is a villain. He cheats. And since people like to excuse Yoda's failure on sheer luck, Palpatine did not cheat, because he's the bad guy, and bad guys can cheat all they want. So I excuse Palpatine's "cheating" - however he did - simply because he is the bad guy. So ha!

Yoda laments on his failure. Lazer, buddy, he did not specify. He MIGHT NOT have said he failed overall. Given the circumstances, I would deduce that he was lamenting that he failed in the battle with Palpatine. You do not know if he meant "I failed overall". And neither do I. So stop bringing THAT up.

Did Palpatine tell Mas Amedda to bring the clones? Do you all KNOW? No. You don't. So stop acting like you do. Amedda left. The clones showed up AFTER Yoda fled the building. Palpatine could have called after the fight. Neither of us know.

You also do not KNOW if Palpatine was or was NOT baiting or toying with Mace. Palpatine may very well be a good actor with a good poker face. You don't know. Or he could've sincerely been frightened. We still don't know.

Anakin did NOT defeat Mace. IF you say that, you're lying. He interfered. Yes, he did. If this were an honorable fight (Palpatine is not honorable) then I would have soundly agreed that Mace won by default. But they didn't sit down and discuss the rules before the fight. Mace did not say "well you can't bring in help!".

If memory serves it was Mace who confronted Palpatine with three Jedi Masters. If memory serves Palpatine was alone during the entire fight. So, Mace cheated by bringing help. And he's supposed to be the good guy!

Got y'all again!

So. I really expect the Yoda-fans to ignore what I just said, because they clearly don't want to answer the questions that might make their character look bad.

1. Can you explain to me why Yoda did NOT reflect Palpatine's Force Lightning during the beginning of the fight, especially while Palpatine was talking arrogantly to Yoda BEFORE he did it?

2. Can you explain to me how you all KNOW that Palpatine told Amedda to get the Clones? (Did I miss a few scenes of dialogue where Palpatine told Amedda, "Hey, I want to fight with Yoda for a bit. But go get the Clones so I can have them distract him so I can kill him?"😉

3. Can you explain to me how you all justify Mace Windu bringing Three Jedi Masters with him? (who are better skilled in combat that the clones, mind you)

4. After answering question 3, can you all explain to me how it is unfair that Anakin interfered, knowing Mace brought THREE Jedi Masters to face Palpatine ALONE?

5. Can you explain to me how a VILLAIN can cheat?

Originally posted by A Dark Side Fan
So. I really expect the Yoda-fans to ignore what I just said, because they clearly don't want to answer the questions that might make their character look bad.

1. Can you explain to me why Yoda did NOT reflect Palpatine's Force Lightning during the beginning of the fight, especially while Palpatine was talking arrogantly to Yoda BEFORE he did it?

Surprise attack, Just like Yoda's force push which made Palpatine run away...

2. Can you explain to me how you all KNOW that Palpatine told Amedda to get the Clones? (Did I miss a few scenes of dialogue where Palpatine told Amedda, "Hey, I want to fight with Yoda for a bit. But go get the Clones so I can have them distract him so I can kill him?"😉

logic, Palpatine wanted to run away already when Yoda got up, he would have wanted every edge he could get

3. Can you explain to me how you all justify Mace Windu bringing Three Jedi Masters with him? (who are better skilled in combat that the clones, mind you)

No, who ever said that was fair? Yoda had to run from the clones however becuase he lost his lightsaber... Sidious would have done the same thing if he lost his lightsaber against Mace... He actually did.

4. After answering question 3, can you all explain to me how it is unfair that Anakin interfered, knowing Mace brought THREE Jedi Masters to face Palpatine ALONE?

5. Can you explain to me how a VILLAIN can cheat?

The same way anybody else can cheat, editing ini files using bribes changing game code, getting trainers or just looking at cheats from the net... But normally in a war you can't cheat.

Cheated? PLEASE!!!

He brought with him backup that's not cheating. That has to be the most ridiculous arguement in this thread. What does it even have to do with who is more powerful?

It's more like this: If Palpatine was perfectly confident in himself taking on 4 Jedi Masters, why did he try to run from Yoda? He obviously thought a lot more of Yoda than he did the others combined!

Furthermore, no, we don't KNOW for a fact he did anything. The Jurors in California right now don't know for a fact what Michael Jackson did or didn't do, but they are gonna decide based on what evidence they have, and that's all we can do too.

I still haven't seen the a single one of the breakdowns of that fight addressed, either mine on playing it slow-mo, or Newjak's more thorough one.

Furthermore, I have a new idea which I think adds a lot more to our arguement.

Each time a character fails in the series, it is because they are too aggressive or touch the dark side. In TPM, Obi-Wan almost gets killed by Maul after he lets himself touch the dark side (ref. OS) and becomes to aggressive; he only recovers when he calms down and behaves without anger. Anakin gets fried by Dooku when he tries to be too aggressive. Palpatine (forget about whether it's faking it or not) ends up huddled in a corner with Mace hovering over him when he dives aggresively at the Jedi, Mace gets killed when he goes angry and tries to kill Palpatine. Anakin gets himself cut up when he goes dark side on Obi-Wan on Mustafar.

Up until the end of the duel, Yoda is being mostly defensive. However, when Palpatine fires his lightning at him, he collects it and takes the evil Sith lightning and throws it back at Palpatine, making it almost as though he himself was using the lightning. Note that he did NOT do this to Dooku in AOTC, but he threw the lightning towards the celeing, and then absorbed it; he never attacked with it. When he "attacked" Palpatine with it, he takes the hardest of hard falls.... I am almost certain this is symbolic....