Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Luckily for Clark though, he doesn't have to use his powers properly to defeat John. He can just plain do a plain beat down. No fancy shit needed.And also what Batdude said.
Well yeah, but that's like saying WW can kick Flashes arse without the speed force tricks.. Sure, it'll happen 9 times out of 10, but half the point of these slugfests is to go beyond the lameness of the typical comic book fight. 😉
Originally posted by carver9
In a comic, Superman wins 8/10. On KMC Martian wins 8 or 9/10. He IS Supes with additional powers.
I think Superman is stronger and has better endurance and durability most of the time.
J'onn can shapeshift himself to match or pass Superman in a specific area, but that takes energy.
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Not for nothing but wasn't it explicitly stated that the reason Plastic Man was brought into the JLA was his telepathic immunity because at the time the JLA had no real contingency for dealing with a hypothetical evil/bloodlusted Martian Manhunter? (Including having Superman try to stop him)
Yes, that was his reason. Fernus's telepathy was so potent, Stewart actually needed The Guardians to fill his brain with a dead alien language, just to keep MM from mind screwing him long enough to rescue his teammates...
Plas was completely synthetic, which made him immune to the telepathy.
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Not for nothing but wasn't it explicitly stated that the reason Plastic Man was brought into the JLA was his telepathic immunity because at the time the JLA had no real contingency for dealing with a hypothetical evil/bloodlusted Martian Manhunter? (Including having Superman try to stop him)
You're talking about one arc (Trial by Fire) where J'onn had his moment in the sun.
Outside of that, Superman is consistently portrayed as being above him.
Originally posted by batdude123
You're talking about [b]one arc (Trial by Fire) where J'onn had his moment in the sun.Outside of that, Superman is consistently portrayed as being above him. [/B]
No arguments there, I'm just pointing out the problems with your assertions about Superman being 100% superior in every way to J'onn when that's clearly not true. Superman can't even compete with J'onn when it comes to telepathy and shapeshifting because Superman lacks those powers.
Originally posted by Q99
I think Superman is stronger and has better endurance and durability most of the time.J'onn can shapeshift himself to match or pass Superman in a specific area, but that takes energy.
I think the Captain Marvel and MM fight from JLA was a pretty good litmus test of where they are physically. MM was able to hold his own for a bit, but he was always a step behind and eventually was simply overpowered..
Although, MM also knocked Billy out, once the entity mind controlling left him and he had no idea he was in a fight anymore. A cheap win, but it proves he could hurt someone on Supes level, if he gets in a good opening.
Originally posted by Omega Vision
No arguments there, I'm just pointing out the problems with your assertions about Superman being 100% superior in every way to J'onn when that's clearly not true. Superman can't even compete with J'onn when it comes to telepathy and shapeshifting because Superman lacks those powers.
Thanks for pointing out the obvious there, sport. 👆
Originally posted by batdude123
You're talking about [b]one arc (Trial by Fire) where J'onn had his moment in the sun.Outside of that, Superman is consistently portrayed as being above him. [/B]
Not true. Morrison was pretty consistent about writing up MM..
I think it was Morrison that had Supes make the infamous speech how J'onn is the one JLAer he wouldn't want to fight.
Originally posted by cdtm
Not true. Morrison was pretty consistent about writing up MM..I think it was Morrison that had Supes make the infamous speech how J'onn is the one JLAer he wouldn't want to fight.
And Morrison has given Superman some of his best feats ever.
You can find more instances of J'onn jerking Superman than vice-versa.
Originally posted by cdtm
I think the Captain Marvel and MM fight from JLA was a pretty good litmus test of where they are physically. MM was able to hold his own for a bit, but he was always a step behind and eventually was simply overpowered..Although, MM also knocked Billy out, once the entity mind controlling left him and he had no idea he was in a fight anymore. A cheap win, but it proves he could hurt someone on Supes level, if he gets in a good opening.
Agreed. SM, CM, and WW are slightly more suited for direct combat, MM's more versatile.
Originally posted by batdude123
And Morrison has given Superman some of his best feats ever.You can find more instances of J'onn jerking Superman than vice-versa.
Well, he's Superman.
And that just makes the MM pimping even more special. Would it be worth anything for Morrison to jerk J'onn if he blatantly hated Superman? I know I'd dismiss it, on the grounds that he's just doing more of his Superman hatin'
Anyways, so far the main arguments for the pro Superman side seem to be that J'onn can't win this head to head. You'll get no argument from me on that..