Originally posted by Dolos
Muhammad Ali is heavier, a better striker.Bruce Lee honestly wasn't all that good in real sparring competitions, and he wore all those pads. I bet if they were both in a street altercation it all depends on who would be more dirty. I actually think Bruce Lee could do more damage in a street altercation with a beer bottle or something, he seems to be a little more inventive...that's opinion of him.
Physically Muhammad Ali is stronger, faster, a more capable fighter, and much more than that.
If we're talking about a backyard brawl or sanctioned MMA fight, Bruce Lee won't be able to stay off the dirt/canvas. But if it's a street altercation anything could happen. The most important combination of character traits for a fight are confidence, perceptiveness, determination, violence, and brutality. Bruce Lee has a better combination, though Muhammad Ali would be very confident about the technical and physical battle, a street fight is a street fight many a time professional fighters have gotten ****ed up beyond all repair and their careers down the drain to some average joe with a loose plank of wood with nails in it laying around by the dump.
so, all this stuff about Lee being unquantifiable, I agree with of course, but couldn't a similar thing be said about Ali?
I mean, yes, hundreds of hours of fights are available of him, but during what would have been his peak years of fighting, wasn't he either in jail or banned from boxing? Like, aren't some people comparing some idealized Bruce to an either inexperienced or past-prime Ali? If one gets to hypothesize about how good Bruce could have been, doesn't the same also get to be said about Ali?
Originally posted by Oliver North
so, all this stuff about Lee being unquantifiable, I agree with of course, but couldn't a similar thing be said about Ali?I mean, yes, hundreds of hours of fights are available of him, but during what would have been his peak years of fighting, wasn't he either in jail or banned from boxing? Like, aren't some people comparing some idealized Bruce to an either inexperienced or past-prime Ali? If one gets to hypothesize about how good Bruce could have been, doesn't the same also get to be said about Ali?
I'm just saying from what I've studied about Bruce Lee and from listening to what Muhammad Ali has to say, if there is a street altercation, and they are both just trying to **** each other up...Bruce Lee is more aprehensive, more invasive, he's going to do shit to Muhammad that the champ wouldn't think to do or wouldn't expect. It's a like a crazy Gook ****ing this great boxer up with a bunch of house-hold appliences, sticks, ****ing beer bottles, whatever. Muhammad Ali would grab something, Bruce Lee knows whats up and I just think he'd be more aware of his sorroundings and would take better advantage of the situation and take control.
Of course Muhammad Ali is a better fighter, stronger, faster.
idk, considering this is the Wiki entry for Clay's early life:
Cassius Marcellus Clay, Jr., was born on January 17, 1942, in Louisville, Kentucky. The older of two boys, he was named after his father, Cassius Marcellus Clay, Sr., who was named after the 19th century abolitionist and politician of the same name. His father painted billboards and signs, and his mother, Odessa O'Grady Clay, was a household domestic. Although Cassius Sr. was a Methodist, he allowed Odessa to bring up both Cassius and his younger brother Rudolph "Rudy" Clay (later renamed Rahman Ali) as Baptists. He is a descendant of pre-Civil War era American slaves in the American South, and is predominantly of African-American descent, with Irish and English ancestry.
Clay was first directed toward boxing by Louisville police officer and boxing coach Joe E. Martin, who encountered the 12-year-old fuming over a thief taking his bicycle. He told the officer he was going to "whup" the thief. The officer told him he better learn how to box first.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Ali
I have a tough time thinking a poor black kid growing up in 50s Kentucky would be unfamiliar with fighting dirty...
I think Bruce stands a way better chance if Ali has to lace up some gloves...
Originally posted by Oliver North
idk, considering this is the Wiki entry for Clay's early life:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Ali
I have a tough time thinking a poor black kid growing up in 50s Kentucky would be unfamiliar with fighting dirty...
I think Bruce stands a way better chance if Ali has to lace up some gloves...
I didn't say unfamiliar with fighting dirty.
I said Bruce Lee was probably very perceptive and invasive, anyone from any background can have the brutality. Bruce Lee didn't believe in styles or any of that, he believed in doing what worked. And standing toe to toe with a man like that would never work, he admitted as much literally about Ali. He admitted he was no chance for the champ. I believe that was in his JKD book.
He knew how much of a lion this man was, he'd know what to do to put him out. It wouldn't be fair by any sanctioned standards that's for sure.
Muhammad Ali was always winner from Bruce lee. No any one can defeat Muhammad Ali.
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Ali was a professional fighter who fought some of the greatest boxers of his time. And he outweighed Bruce by some 70ish Lbs (most of it purpose-shaped muscle). He was also unusually fast for his weight class, and had reach that was superior to that of Bruce Lee.
Bruce Lee was an actor first, and Martial Artist second. Ali was a boxer first and foremost. It was how he earned his paycheck, and it was the platform that earned him the fame that enabled him to speak up as a social activist.
For purely practical reasons, Bruce Lee wouldn't have the time he needed or wanted, to keep his martial skills at their very best. Ali HAD TO keep his skills at their very best, and that's what his time went into (not counting the jail-time). You do NOT become champion of the world by slouching or by lack of skill.
Ali was an extremely intelligent fighter who loved to both psyche his opponents out and "get under their skin". In fact, his manner of moving, leading, and baiting his opponents was unheard of until he brought it to the ring! If you look at the fights where Ali was in top form, you see a warrior making his opponents - who were all capable fighters - dance to his tune. And when he couldn't do that? He beat them with discipline, strength of will, and an uncanny ability to gauge what his opponents where attempting to do.
Ali for the win. The most notable warrior of "The Sweet Science" shows Bruce Lee why he was "The Greatest of All Time".
I still like Bruce Lee though. Wonderful philosopher.
Originally posted by Robtard
I thought that too; then I read where he basically plagiarized other peoples' philosophical works. Sometimes with slight reworded; sometimes verbatim.Still greatly enojy his films though.
It's true he plagiarized a lot, but I like that he was a "thinking man". Even though he plagiarized, he seemed to have a clear desire to understand where these thoughts and ideas fit into his world view, beyond his martial arts. His Tao of Jeet Kun Do book gives me the strong impression that his martial arts was just one of many ways that he expressed his thoughts on the world. I'm sure he would've led a fruitful life even without martial arts and kung fu movies.