Originally posted by whirlysplat
Its hilarious new people to a thread never read back and think little people really can beat big people. Hilarious, what about weight divisions😄
Dude, you seriously believe a fight is decided by size? I mean, i thought you were a logical kind of person.
Of course, in a sport structured by strict rules, size does matter. In a fight...a real fight with no rules, size doesnt matter. There are two things that determine the victor of a fight. Who wants it more, and who is better condtioned. there is always the variable of who has more experience in fighting though. Size is an advantage if you know how to use it, but size never imediatley determines a victory. Speed usually always beats size. thats what made ali such a threat. If he were just big, we wouldnt know his name today.
Originally posted by ragesRemorse
Dude, you seriously believe a fight is decided by size? I mean, i thought you were a logical kind of person.Of course, in a sport structured by strict rules, size does matter. In a fight...a real fight with no rules, size doesnt matter. There are two things that determine the victor of a fight. Who wants it more, and who is better condtioned. there is always the variable of who has more experience in fighting though. Size is an advantage if you know how to use it, but size never imediatley determines a victory. Speed usually always beats size. thats what made ali such a threat. If he were just big, we wouldnt know his name today.
An average big guy beats a very good little guy 9 out of 10 times😄
A good big guy does it 10 out of 10
Originally posted by ragesRemorse
Dude, you seriously believe a fight is decided by size? I mean, i thought you were a logical kind of person.Of course, in a sport structured by strict rules, size does matter. In a fight...a real fight with no rules, size doesnt matter. There are two things that determine the victor of a fight. Who wants it more, and who is better condtioned. there is always the variable of who has more experience in fighting though. Size is an advantage if you know how to use it, but size never imediatley determines a victory. Speed usually always beats size. thats what made ali such a threat. If he were just big, we wouldnt know his name today.
Ali wants it more and I'm sure he is in better condition than Bruce.
Originally posted by whirlysplat
An average big guy beats a very good little guy 9 out of 10 times😄A good big guy does it 10 out of 10
He preacheth the gospel....!!!
This is precisely the reason that most doormen/bouncers are not built like Brittany Spears. 😮💨
Like Rage said: Speed is effective. But combine that with the bang-potential that comes with the weight too... You'd be a force to be reckoned with... and certainly enough to mess Bruce Lee up with...
Obviously, Bruce Lee's going to win on popularity and on most people's misconceptions about so-called "martial arts" (misconceptions that, admittedly, Lee himself was aware of). But anyone who's familiar with real mixed martial arts competition knows that hand techniques rule all in terms of striking, while throwing flashy kicks at a skilled opponent is usually a fantastic way to get handed your behind in record time. This is why most UFC competitors favor boxing as the BEST choice for strikes in your arsenal.
In short, boxing IS a martial art (which, in turn, only means "fighting style" -- a martial art need not incorporate useless, Hollywood flash kicks ... or even necessarily striking at all!) in its own right -- an excellent striking martial art, somewhat limited and specialized in scope but far far FAR superior to mediocre, over-hyped styles such as karate and kung fu (it was funny seeing how badly "karate experts" and "kung fu masters" got beaten in the UFC back when they tried to compete with real fighters). This is why Bruce Lee himself incorporated boxing into his style.
All of that said, there's a reason why boxing and wrestling (by the way, wrestling may well be the most overall effective 1v1 MARTIAL ART in the world ... as proven, also, in mixed martial arts competition) incorporate weight classes, as does even the UFC, now: it's because the bigger they are, the harder they POUND YOU INTO THE GROUND. Sure, a highly skilled and fast fighter will rip a completely unskilled and slow brute, but a skilled brute (and it need not be formal training -- as Tank Abbott taught us all, street brawling can teach you far more than most dojos ever could about real fighting)? Sorry, but outside of a Hollywood or "kung fu theater" movie, the little guy's in trouble.
So here's how it works out: if they stay on their feet and play the striking game, Ali has Bruce AT LEAST on reach and size (and thus power, since this isn't a movie, so no magical "chi" strikes ROFL), both of which are absolutely HUGE advantages. Ali's chin proved itself against perhaps the hardest hitters the world has ever seen, and I seriously question whether Bruce, tough little guy though he was, could honestly have taken even a glancing shot from Foreman and kept his legs ... but I'll even give him the benefit of the doubt for this exercise and say their chins are equal. As for speed and footwork, well ... both men were absolute greased lightning and graceful as cats, so with no real way to measure it beyond that, I'll call it a tie. And as for styles, Bruce "boards don't hit back" Lee knew as well as anyone how far big, flashy kicks and all that other dojos- and movies-only crap really gets you in heavy traffic. I think both men would mostly stick to footwork and quick hand strikes, but Bruce would be constantly forced to try to get close -- against one of the greatest outside fighters the world has ever seen -- in order to be able to get his own licks in, thanks to the reach disadvantage. In this kind of fight, Bruce takes the popularity contest, but Ali takes the win.
Now if they went to the ground -- a very likely scenario in a true street fight, even if Ali played his best "keep-away" game to attempt to avoid it -- it might be a different game. I don't know how much Ali knew about the ground. Then again, I also don't know how much Lee knew about the ground, either. Ali would still have a weight and size advantage, but his reach would be effectively negated, and it would simply come down to which guy was more skillful in a grapple.
Edit: By the way, if you're looking for a "striking only" fight and want to use a big-name boxer as Lee's opponent, a more fair choice might be a smaller boxer like one of the Sugar Rays, or even at least Roy Jones Jr. Well ... MORE fair, at least. I guess Jones might still be a little too much. 😉 Better make it a truly smaller guy like Pernell Whittaker. Whittaker vs. Lee -- now THAT'D be worth watching. 😉
Originally posted by Orestes
Obviously, Bruce Lee's going to win on popularity and on most people's misconceptions about so-called "martial arts" (misconceptions that, admittedly, Lee himself was aware of). But anyone who's familiar with real mixed martial arts competition knows that hand techniques rule all in terms of striking, while throwing flashy kicks at a skilled opponent is usually a fantastic way to get handed your behind in record time. This is why most UFC competitors favor boxing as the BEST choice for strikes in your arsenal.In short, boxing IS a martial art (which, in turn, only means "fighting style" -- a martial art need not incorporate useless, Hollywood flash kicks ... or even necessarily striking at all!) in its own right -- an excellent striking martial art, somewhat limited and specialized in scope but far far FAR superior to mediocre, over-hyped styles such as karate and kung fu (it was funny seeing how badly "karate experts" and "kung fu masters" got beaten in the UFC back when they tried to compete with real fighters). This is why Bruce Lee himself incorporated boxing into his style.
All of that said, there's a reason why boxing and wrestling (by the way, wrestling may well be the most overall effective 1v1 MARTIAL ART in the world ... as proven, also, in mixed martial arts competition) incorporate weight classes, as does even the UFC, now: it's because the bigger they are, the harder they POUND YOU INTO THE GROUND. Sure, a highly skilled and fast fighter will rip a completely unskilled and slow brute, but a skilled brute (and it need not be formal training -- as Tank Abbott taught us all, street brawling can teach you far more than most dojos ever could about real fighting)? Sorry, but outside of a Hollywood or "kung fu theater" movie, the little guy's in trouble.
So here's how it works out: if they stay on their feet and play the striking game, Ali has Bruce AT LEAST on reach and size (and thus power, since this isn't a movie, so no magical "chi" strikes ROFL), both of which are absolutely HUGE advantages. Ali's chin proved itself against perhaps the hardest hitters the world has ever seen, and I seriously question whether Bruce, tough little guy though he was, could honestly have taken even a glancing shot from Foreman and kept his legs ... but I'll even give him the benefit of the doubt for this exercise and say their chins are equal. As for speed and footwork, well ... both men were absolute greased lightning and graceful as cats, so with no real way to measure it beyond that, I'll call it a tie. And as for styles, Bruce "boards don't hit back" Lee knew as well as anyone how far big, flashy kicks and all that other dojos- and movies-only crap really gets you in heavy traffic. I think both men would mostly stick to footwork and quick hand strikes, but Bruce would be constantly forced to try to get close -- against one of the greatest outside fighters the world has ever seen -- in order to be able to get his own licks in, thanks to the reach disadvantage. In this kind of fight, Bruce takes the popularity contest, but Ali takes the win.
Now if they went to the ground -- a very likely scenario in a true street fight, even if Ali played his best "keep-away" game to attempt to avoid it -- it might be a different game. I don't know how much Ali knew about the ground. Then again, I also don't know how much Lee knew about the ground, either. Ali would still have a weight and size advantage, but his reach would be effectively negated, and it would simply come down to which guy was more skillful in a grapple.
Edit: By the way, if you're looking for a "striking only" fight and want to use a big-name boxer as Lee's opponent, a more fair choice might be a smaller boxer like one of the Sugar Rays, or even at least Roy Jones Jr. Well ... MORE fair, at least. I guess Jones might still be a little too much. 😉 Better make it a truly smaller guy like Pernell Whittaker. Whittaker vs. Lee -- now THAT'D be worth watching. 😉
Excellent post I explained in very similar terms the same thing about 30 pages back🙂 As did Smiley, Zeek, Saddako and about 20 others.
Good post though 🙂
Originally posted by whirlysplat
Excellent post I explained in very similar terms the same thing about 30 pages back🙂 As did Smiley, Zeek, Saddako and about 20 others.Good post though 🙂
Ah, okay. Yeah, I'll admit I didn't exactly read through ALL of the posts before skipping to the end to register and then drop my two cents' in. It just really bothers me when I see these outrageous misconceptions about martial arts people have gotten from the movies -- misconceptions Lee himself spoke out against. It's like all these people SAW the guy in the movies but never HEARD him when he opened his mouth to separate fantasy from reality, you know? 😉
Originally posted by Orestes
Obviously, Bruce Lee's going to win on popularity and on most people's misconceptions about so-called "martial arts" (misconceptions that, admittedly, Lee himself was aware of). But anyone who's familiar with real mixed martial arts competition knows that hand techniques rule all in terms of striking, while throwing flashy kicks at a skilled opponent is usually a fantastic way to get handed your behind in record time. This is why most UFC competitors favor boxing as the BEST choice for strikes in your arsenal.In short, boxing IS a martial art (which, in turn, only means "fighting style" -- a martial art need not incorporate useless, Hollywood flash kicks ... or even necessarily striking at all!) in its own right -- an excellent striking martial art, somewhat limited and specialized in scope but far far FAR superior to mediocre, over-hyped styles such as karate and kung fu (it was funny seeing how badly "karate experts" and "kung fu masters" got beaten in the UFC back when they tried to compete with real fighters). This is why Bruce Lee himself incorporated boxing into his style.
All of that said, there's a reason why boxing and wrestling (by the way, wrestling may well be the most overall effective 1v1 MARTIAL ART in the world ... as proven, also, in mixed martial arts competition) incorporate weight classes, as does even the UFC, now: it's because the bigger they are, the harder they POUND YOU INTO THE GROUND. Sure, a highly skilled and fast fighter will rip a completely unskilled and slow brute, but a skilled brute (and it need not be formal training -- as Tank Abbott taught us all, street brawling can teach you far more than most dojos ever could about real fighting)? Sorry, but outside of a Hollywood or "kung fu theater" movie, the little guy's in trouble.
So here's how it works out: if they stay on their feet and play the striking game, Ali has Bruce AT LEAST on reach and size (and thus power, since this isn't a movie, so no magical "chi" strikes ROFL), both of which are absolutely HUGE advantages. Ali's chin proved itself against perhaps the hardest hitters the world has ever seen, and I seriously question whether Bruce, tough little guy though he was, could honestly have taken even a glancing shot from Foreman and kept his legs ... but I'll even give him the benefit of the doubt for this exercise and say their chins are equal. As for speed and footwork, well ... both men were absolute greased lightning and graceful as cats, so with no real way to measure it beyond that, I'll call it a tie. And as for styles, Bruce "boards don't hit back" Lee knew as well as anyone how far big, flashy kicks and all that other dojos- and movies-only crap really gets you in heavy traffic. I think both men would mostly stick to footwork and quick hand strikes, but Bruce would be constantly forced to try to get close -- against one of the greatest outside fighters the world has ever seen -- in order to be able to get his own licks in, thanks to the reach disadvantage. In this kind of fight, Bruce takes the popularity contest, but Ali takes the win.
Now if they went to the ground -- a very likely scenario in a true street fight, even if Ali played his best "keep-away" game to attempt to avoid it -- it might be a different game. I don't know how much Ali knew about the ground. Then again, I also don't know how much Lee knew about the ground, either. Ali would still have a weight and size advantage, but his reach would be effectively negated, and it would simply come down to which guy was more skillful in a grapple.
Edit: By the way, if you're looking for a "striking only" fight and want to use a big-name boxer as Lee's opponent, a more fair choice might be a smaller boxer like one of the Sugar Rays, or even at least Roy Jones Jr. Well ... MORE fair, at least. I guess Jones might still be a little too much. 😉 Better make it a truly smaller guy like Pernell Whittaker. Whittaker vs. Lee -- now THAT'D be worth watching. 😉
👆