Muhammad Ali or Bruce Lee?

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
I was typing while you posted that rubbish... I addressed your second post in the last line of the edit...

You tire me idiot... Your simply not worthy of my time... post when you got something intellegent to say...

exaggerations and rumours sound like all you have about Lee.

Missed again, the floor round you pan at home must be real wet son 😂

isn't the last bit of your post what everyones been saying about you - post when you have something intelligent to say, guess you missed that as well boy.

that all you got Idiot??? copying and pasting my words???

I know you are... But what am I...

Resorting to children tactics now huh???

Anyways...
Something for you to read...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rope-a-dope

My give you a few hints as to why Ali against foes who were much stronger then him...
I really didn't want to post that.. But in light of the non-stop anti lee pages..

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
that all you got Idiot??? copying and pasting my words???

I know you are... But what am I...

Resorting to children tactics now huh???

Anyways...
Something for you to read...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rope-a-dope

My give you a few hints as to why Ali won...

yeah he won 53 fights that way 🙄

and the Olympics!!!

I know what you are boy 😂

the floor just gets wetter and wetter for you.

Hit and Miss posted earlier j/k

OOOoooooOOOh!,

jus cos sumwun is wittle duzznt meen dey kant foyt sumwuns bigga!

Burple

p.s. Bwuce Wee Wocksh

by Hit and Miss

I'm not interested in your trolling anymore...

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
I'm not interested in your trolling anymore...

This guy reminds me of a certain kid who had an older brother who was 155lbs and would kill us all. What the heck was that kids name?

I remember it was Hit and Miss, thats weird.....

someone actually named there child hit and miss.... wow...

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
someone actually named there child hit and miss.... wow...

Mr Miss did

You do know Midlands has got one d, might wanna think about changing that in your location son, don't want anyone to think your ignorant do we boy.

stay on topic

I think what a lot of people are assuming that this is going to be a match that takes place in the boxing ring. No such stipulations were made by the thread originator of where the actual fight would take place. That being stated...I think its pretty fair to say that each of the respective fighter's "street fighting ability" is pretty much up in the air.

Boxing is a sport that has predifined guidelines, rules, etc. With that being stated, judging one's overall fighting ability..strictly by what they are able to do within the "boxing ring"..doesn't really give a full picture of what one is capable of.

For example..how many times has anyone really witnessed Ali fight outside of the ring? None that I can recall. The man was a damned good boxer...and he knew how to apply his physical/technical abilities to the game of boxing...but that doesn't necessarily give him street cred. In fact..the only good street cred boxer that I can think of is Tyson. That man is a freaking animal. Just do a google search on "Bone Crusher Smith" and you'll find the story about how Iron Mike took on this amateur thug boxer along with Smith's cronies on the street..Hell..I believe he whopped all of their asses at once.

Anyway..back on topic..Ali was often very afraid of many of the more "thug" opponents that he had to face in the ring. Often times, he would resort to talking these opponents out of their games..with verbal taunts, mind games, etc, before the match. This was effective in the boxing game..seeing as how as I stated before, the people he was fighting..were limited to fighting within the predifined rules set within the boxing ring.

However, I doubt that these mental games/or boxing strategies would have done well in a street battle. "Rope a dope" would not have been effective against Foreman in a "no holds barred" street battle. And I doubt that Ali would have done half as well against Liston or Frazier on the street. In fact..I believe the man would probably gotten murdered in a street battle with any of these guys.

This is not to say that Lee has any more cred in a "street brawl" battle then Ali does..but I have to say..that when it comes to being the more versatile fighter, overall..this advantage would definately have to go to Lee. Both were gifted fighters..however, its difficult to determine who was the better all around fighter..strictly by comparing them using their respective feats..in the sports that they participated in.

In a street brawl..this battle could go either way. I'm going to give an edge to Lee..based on his overall versatility.

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
continued from last post 🙂

For better or worse, Lee escaped objective evaluation.
It's tremendously subjective but Bruce Lee is arguably considered the most noteworthy martial artist due to his magnetism on film. Regardless of any opinion about his actual martial art talent, or lack of empirical
demonstration regarding his ability, he expressed himself on the screen in a manner that no martial artist has equaled. And, by combining his upper body strength and light body weight, he possessed uncanny speed that visually made believers of anyone who saw him in action.

Reassessing the Usefulness of the Bruce Lee Myth
In one sense, Lee is forever a tremendous asset to the martial art community as his image and myth draws people to the arts. These fledgling martial artists may then be retained for more noble and enduring reasons than a desire to emulate someone whose example is questionable upon closer examination.
Once a martial artist reviews the reality of Lee's strength, aerobic capacity and personal character, a sober question must be addressed: should Lee's myth be actively deconstructed among novice martial artists? Perhaps not. That may be a function of maturity and be better emphasized in the later stages of training and spiritual development within the arts. Instead, people need a visual image to connect to and, until they begin to see their own selves in growing competency, may need the myth of Bruce Lee to sustain their training efforts.

References

Lee, Linda (1989). The Bruce Lee Story. Ohara Publications, California. (70)

Wathen, Dan (1994). Load Assignment. In Essentials of Strength Training and Conditioning. Human Kinetics, Illinois. (436)

Hatfield, Fredrick C., Ph. D. (1993). Fitness: The Complete Guide. International Sport Sciences Association, California. (119) .

Allerheiligen, William B. (1994). Speed Development and Plyometric Training. In Essentials of Strength Training and Conditioning. Human Kinetics, Illinois. (321)

Lee, Bruce (1975). Tao of Jeet Kune Do. Ohara, Burbank, California. ( )

Storm, Mitch; Black Belt Magazine, The Editors (1986). The Legendary Bruce Lee. Ohara, Burbank, CA. (53)

Lee, Linda (1989). The Bruce Lee Story. Ohara Publications, California. (54)

Noakes, Timothy, M.D. (1991). The Lore of Running. Leisure Press, Champaign, Illinois. (42)

Tiidus, Peter M.; Zabukovec, Randy (1995). "Physiological and Anthropometric Profile of Elite Kickboxers". Journal of Strength and Conditioning research, (November) 240-242.

Funakoshi, Gichin (1975). Karate-Do: My Way of Life. Kodansha International, Tokyo, Japan. (102)

Beeckler, Tom (1996). Unsettled Matters: The Life and Death of Bruce Lee. Gilderoy Publications, Lompoc, California. (144; 182)

ABOUT THE AUTHOR: In addition to the martial arts, Mr. Hess is a licensed cycling coach who regularly works with successful endurance athletes with tiny vertical jumps. He is the author of Total Quality Martial Arts: Pathways to Continuous Improvement.

Lee sure was strong 🙂

Keep the faith 🙂

Stay Whirly 🤘

omg you actually got the actual references about LEE!
oh and to answer your post hit and miss Lee is faster his foot work is worse and about the styles...it depends...Physics....Emotions... and Who's more mentally prepared for the fight...Ali still takes it considering you STILL havn't provided PROOF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PROOF PROOF PROOF!!! Where is it! until you provide the proof i will continue to doubt any thing you say...No more attention for you lil boy...You're done...

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
What are you chatting about Evil idiot??? Like always your swinging on whirlys nuts.. You haven't made one post on this forum that had a point...

Bruce built his techinque from seeing the strength of all the marshal arts he saw and put them together... He is much faster then Ali... and is strong enough that if he hit ali..He would feel it.. Lee trainned to fight against boxers, He realised footwork was important and knew how to play it to his strengths...

Try going to class some time evil.. you might educate that brain of yours to realise strength isn't the be all and end all of fighting..

Try to realise what the 1 inch punch represented... In the distance of 1 inch he could generate enough power to knock a man down.. with his arm out stretched he could easily do more damage... Anyone can hit someone in the head and KO them...
The 1 inch punch showed his speed and strength...

The rest of that rambling is exagerations and rumors...

Actually he got most of his information on the biography of bruce lee....Lee was a great philosopher and a martial artist...NOT a GREAT FIGHTER.

Ahh but a great Philosopher is a Terrific fighter.......here let me tell you a story I once heard about 2 young men...................

5 days later ..............and see it was right before your eyes.......lol

both men fall asleep from boredom🙂

Originally posted by whobdamandog
I think what a lot of people are assuming that this is going to be a match that takes place in the boxing ring. No such stipulations were made by the thread originator of where the actual fight would take place. That being stated...I think its pretty fair to say that each of the respective fighter's "street fighting ability" is pretty much up in the air.

Boxing is a sport that has predifined guidelines, rules, etc. With that being stated, judging one's overall fighting ability..strictly by what they are able to do within the "boxing ring"..doesn't really give a full picture of what one is capable of.

For example..how many times has anyone really witnessed Ali fight outside of the ring? None that I can recall. The man was a damned good boxer...and he knew how to apply his physical/technical abilities to the game of boxing...but that doesn't necessarily give him street cred. In fact..the only good street cred boxer that I can think of is Tyson. That man is a freaking animal. Just do a google search on "Bone Crusher Smith" and you'll find the story about how Iron Mike took on this amateur thug boxer along with Smith's cronies on the street..Hell..I believe he whopped all of their asses at once.

Anyway..back on topic..Ali was often very afraid of many of the more "thug" opponents that he had to face in the ring. Often times, he would resort to talking these opponents out of their games..with verbal taunts, mind games, etc, before the match. This was effective in the boxing game..seeing as how as I stated before, the people he was fighting..were limited to fighting within the predifined rules set within the boxing ring.

However, I doubt that these mental games/or boxing strategies would have done well in a street battle. "Rope a dope" would not have been effective against Foreman in a "no holds barred" street battle. And I doubt that Ali would have done half as well against Liston or Frazier on the street. In fact..I believe the man would probably gotten murdered in a street battle with any of these guys.

This is not to say that Lee has any more cred in a "street brawl" battle then Ali does..but I have to say..that when it comes to being the more versatile fighter, overall..this advantage would definately have to go to Lee. Both were gifted fighters..however, its difficult to determine who was the better all around fighter..strictly by comparing them using their respective feats..in the sports that they participated in.

In a street brawl..this battle could go either way. I'm going to give an edge to Lee..based on his overall versatility.

Originally posted by StyleTime
You'd actually have a valid point if we were talking about Ali vs any of the other good heavyweight boxers. However, Lee is not Foreman or Liston and is about 100 lbs lighter than any heavyweight. Any advantage Lee would have had can be nulled almost solely by Ali's functional weight advantage.

Not necessarily. Weight advantage not= better fighter. In the Boxing Ring, this particualr philosophy works because as I stated..you have predetermined rules/guidelines that are followed.

But when one is fighting in the real world..anything goes. I'm talking about nut shots, kicks/punches to the shins, neck etc. All it really takes is one well placed blow to one of these weak areas...to take someone completely out of commission. The match could go either way..but I seriously doubt it would be as easy for Ali as many have alluded too.

Originally posted by whobdamandog
Not necessarily. Weight advantage not= better fighter. In the Boxing Ring, this particualr philosophy works because as I stated..you have predetermined rules/guidelines that are followed.

But when one is fighting in the real world..anything goes. I'm talking about nut shots, kicks/punches to the shins, neck etc. All it really takes is one well placed blow to one of these weak areas...to take someone completely out of commission. The match could go either way..but I seriously doubt it would be as easy for Ali as many have alluded too.

If anything, weight matters even more in a street fight where you can simply overwhelm your opponent because of the absence of rules. Let's also not forget that Ali can use these same groin shots/shin kicks/whatever that Bruce can.

Make no mistake though, these shots are NOT the fight enders some people think they are. Pro fighters get hit with these all the time.

Originally posted by StyleTime
I hate it when people say things like a groin shot will end a life and death fight. Trust me, groin shots, shin shots, etc will NOT end a fight. I've been hit in the groin during a fight and adrenaline will kept me going. I know someone who got eye gauged during a kickboxing match and continued fighting. I get hit in the shin sparring and let me tell you that it does nothing really.

If anything, weight matters even more in a street fight where you can simply overwhelm your opponent because of the absence of rules. Let's also not forget that Ali can use these same groin shots/shin kicks/whatever that Bruce can.

Make no mistake though, these shots are NOT the fight enders some people think they are. Pro fighters get hit with these all the time.

How effective would Ali be in a fight if one of his knee caps or shins was broken from a well placed side kick? Or if his eyes had been gouged?
These are the types of injuries that can happen in "No holds barred" matches my friend.

Don't get me wrong..I agree with you for the most part. But I think you're forgetting, that winning a fight isn't just about brute strength and size..its also about how one applies their physical attributes through technique..as well as knowing your opponents strengths/weaknesses.

Lee was much more skilled when it came to knowing which parts of the body to kick, punch, etc..and what types of injuries resulted from particular types of hits. To the best of my knowledge, certain types of blows..to certain regions of the body, will take down most anyone rather effortlessly.

From what I've read of Tao..Bruce seemed to have a pretty good knowledge of human anatomy/pressure points..and what parts of the body he should go for when facing a much larger/stronger opponents. This knowledge by all means does not make it an "auto win" factor for Bruce..but in my humble opinion..definately gives him an edge in the tactical skill area.

Just wanted to add..comparing Lee and Ali's respective fighting abilities is like comparing apples and oranges. It would be like if I tried to make a comparison between Michael Jordan and Jerry Rice as to who was the better all around athelete, using their overall performances from Basketball and Football as a basis of comparison.

Both Ali and Lee participated in different fighting sports. At best..we can really only surmise from their respective bouts/competitions.. that Ali was a better "BOXER" than Lee..not a better all around fighter.

Originally posted by AdventChild
omg you actually got the actual references about LEE!
oh and to answer your post hit and miss Lee is faster his foot work is worse and about the styles...it depends...Physics....Emotions... and Who's more mentally prepared for the fight...Ali still takes it considering you STILL havn't provided PROOF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PROOF PROOF PROOF!!! Where is it! until you provide the proof i will continue to doubt any thing you say...No more attention for you lil boy...You're done...

Agreed

Originally posted by StyleTime
You'd actually have a valid point if we were talking about Ali vs any of the other good heavyweight boxers. However, Lee is not Foreman or Liston and is about 100 lbs lighter than any heavyweight. Any advantage Lee would have had can be nulled almost solely by Ali's functional weight advantage.

Agreed

Originally posted by Evil Genius
Hit and Miss posted earlier j/k

OOOoooooOOOh!,

jus cos sumwun is wittle duzznt meen dey kant foyt sumwuns bigga!

Burple

p.s. Bwuce Wee Wocksh

by Hit and Miss

Very funny EG 😂 in my opinion you needed to spice it up with smileys here I've done it

Hit and Miss posted earlier j/k

OOOoooooOOOh!, baby

jus cos sumwun is wittle duzznt meen dey kant foyt sumwuns bigga! Burple donatello

p.s. Bwuce Wee Wocksh animals_bunny2

by Hit and Miss aged 7 and 3/4s

Originally posted by Zarathustra
It never stops being relevant that Lee doesn't have a fight record. Theories, which Lee certainly had a good number of, are useless to us if they are not proven effective by actual application. Hit and Miss's repeated attempts to portray great boxers like George Foreman and Joe Lewis as static brawlers are not only inaccurate, but offensive to some of the greatest fighters of the past century. One wonders, if boxing is so devoid of skill, why the legendary Bruce Lee you think so highly of chose to draw on that very sport, along with fencing, to improve upon his Wing Chun Kung Fu?
Again and again: Lee trained to fight boxers. So what? Every man Muhammad Ali ever fought had trained against boxers: most of them were excellent at fighting boxers. That didn't stop Ali from knocking out a great many of them.

Is it conceivable that a man Lee's size could defeat Ali? It's possible, but that man would have to be a much, much better pound for pound fighter than Ali to manage it. Lee's lack of any fight record makes it impossible to ascertain whether or not he was capable of such a feat. Lacking such evidence (only successful application of his skills: hence fights, are sufficient), one must assume that Ali would come out on top because big guys beat smaller guys and the onus is upon the smaller man to prove otherwise.
One way or another, his ideas were revolutionary: unfortunately, mixed martial arts didn't really become a reality until Royce Gracie sprang onto the scene in the first UFC's, proving that strikers really did need to learn grappling if they were to be truly effective fighters.

Anyway, the whole point is moot: Gracie would tear either of these guys apart inside of three minutes.

Genius post - Sums up everything really.

Keep the faith 🙂

Stay Whirly 🤘