Emperor Revan, I appreciate an individual that can actually debate with logic, but some of the points you attempt to use to undermine Ragnos' power is laughable, at best.
For example:
Desann didn't own Luke, the battle showed them pretty equal with Desann winning by trapping Luke. Yes it was a horrible cutscene but c'mon, it's Luke we're talking about. He was undoubtedly not trying to fight and trying to get Desann to come back to his academy. Secondly he does say that he never even felt him coming, so even with a surprise Desann didn't win and if Desann really owned Luke than why did Desann leave so quickly? Also note that when Luke knocked off the rubble he wasn't breathing hard but he instead shook his head that Desann had turned to the Dark Side.
That's horrible logical fallacy and you (should) know it.
We don't know Luke's intentions in that game, however, Luke DID get trapped and if the match were to be called, it was a draw, at best, for NJO Luke.
Then of course, Kyle defeated Desann.
This isn't conclusive, I'm not trying to say it is. But if were to take JK2 as Canon, THE BEST you can argue for is that Desann, Luke, and Kyle are all three on a similar tier as far as their ability to duel with the force/lightsaber.
Desann fought Luke to a victory/draw, Kyle beat Desann.
You can spin this however you like, the facts are there.
Does this mean Kyle can beat Luke? Not necessarily.
The Key here is that Kyle and Luke are at LEAST on a similar tier, if the game is to be believed. Kyle's chances against Luke would have to depend on the matchup and who's having a good day. But to say that NJO Luke would run away in the matchup against Kyle would be a bit silly.
Now, you can DENY this fact if you want, because it does come from the JK2 game, however, you BLATANTLY use the fact that Ragnavion (yes, the nickname for Tavion + Ragnos) was defeated by Jaden in the sequel.
So what makes one video game incident takes precedence over the other?
You claim that Luke didn't get owned by Desann. Guess what? If he didn't get "owned" by Desann, he didn't win either, so they are of comparable level. To say otherwise would be to ASS-U-ME, which you tell everyone NOT to do for Ragnos.
Bottum line? Hypocrisy is a nasty adversary. Keep your references specific.
If you want to argue that Luke didn't get beat by Desann by some TECHNICALITY, then you can just as easily argue that Ragnos did not get beat by Jaden because he was using Tavion (who WAS already beaten) to do it.
Like I said, I give him a lot of credit, he's like 9th or something on my list, but could Revan have defeated those guys we don't know about? 99.9% chance I would say so since we actually know the beings he's fought which are very powerful and he's defeated every one of them. He is feared as well, though his fear extends to the whole galaxy, not just Korriban.
That is bull and you know it.
So BECAUSE we know of a WWII veteran's exploits means he would win 99.9% of the time in a hand to hand fight with an Ancient Spartan?
That's hardly true. We ONLY know, in detail, about Revan's exploits. That doesn't give him a "99.9% chance" to beat Ragnos, who is an unknown quantity. It only shows that REVAN was the most powerful OF HIS TIME, while RAGNOS was the most powerful OF HIS TIME.
You try to compare eras all you want from this, extrapolate all the details, but don't tell me that Revan can beat Ragnos "99.9%" of the time BECAUSE we know of his exploits.
Knowing about someone's exploits doesn't affect their ability to beat each other down with sabers.
Speaking of which, let's look at that. Marka comes back as a spirit, infests a Force User's body (and granted she wasn't all that weak) and still gets defeated by a Jedi knight, albeit one who's about at Kyle Katarn's level. Now let's look at Exar Kun's spirit, and this is JUST his spirit, he destroyed a Force User, corrupted 3 individuals and it took 12 padawans and Luke and Vodo-Siosk Bas's spirit JOINING their power to destroy Kun. He even Force choked those 12 padawans at the same time, but after a minute they resisted it.
Hardly comparable.
Kun absorbed the whole Massassi race in order to empower his spirit.
After he was disenbodied from Kyp, he STILL had the power to FORCE GRIP padawans.
Ragnos? You can say his spirit wasn't quite empowered, he couldn't even exist outside of Tavion's body.
Besides, how does spirit show anything about the power of a Jedi?
QuiGon was the first to discover/rediscover how to make yourself immortal by being one with the force, does that mean he was a superior Jedi Master to ALL those former masters that couldn't do the same IN LIFE? Hardly.
You're again trying to compare the incomparable with the limited logic you have.
That's way more than Marka did, and his spirit was inside a Dark Jedi master. So no, I don't think he's the most powerful.
When did Tavio become a "Dark Jedi Master"?
She was an APPRENTICE to Desann just earlier in JK2, she wasn't even a "Dark Jedi" in that game, yet she somehow, probably through self-promotion becomes a "Dark Jedi Master". Right...
I'm not saying it's NOT possible that Revan is the most powerful, but you can't say BECAUSE we know of his exploits, he is greater than Marka Ragnos, who is CONSIDERED to be the greatest Sith Lord ever. That's logicl fallacy, and NOT valid in an argument.
Listen to yourself saying what Ragnos should've done, you're making excuses for him when this is the best thing we have to go on. We don't know how powerful Ragnos is but this is our biggest lead and you're denying it because you think he should be all powerful even though we have absolutely no proof of HIS power other than he was feared? Come on.
It's not a lead at all. Pall's spirit was pathetic, does that mean he was a weakling? Uncertain. Spirit strength has unknown correlation to their ability as a Jedi/Sith, otherwise QuiGon could be considered one of the best Jedi's ever, I doubt that.
You can argue/spin facts all you want, Emperor Revan, but the fact remains:
You are trying to use unknown facts and faulty connections to try to "prove" your favorite character is greater than the character that is considered to be the "greatest" Sith Lord ever.
What is that I smell? Dare I say fanboyism?
The argument is simple:
[list=1]Why Ragnos can be considered for the top spot based on what we DO KNOW.
[*]He was a half-breed. Sith's hate half-breeds. And the only thing that Sith's are better at than killing Jedi are... well... Killing other Siths!
[*]He reigned unquestioned for over a century. I dare you to find me another Sith that did just that. It's not saying he's not the greatest fighter, but he was definitely the greatest Sith LEADER. Arguing against this would be like saying Louis XIV wasn't the best French King.
[*]Naga Sadow would piss his pants as soon as look at him. Ragnos has so much influence and power over Sadow, who was no weakling in his own right, that Sadow would sit calmly in the shadows. The second Ragnos DIES though, Sadow suddenly becomes empowers and challenges for the supreme rank. Ironic? Only if you consider Ragnos a weakling.
[*]It was Ragnos' spirit that told Sadow to stop fighting, and even his spirit scared the piss out of him.
[*]Ragnos crowned Exar the Sith Lord, and Ulic the apprentice.
[*]Ragnos' Sith Scepter has the ability to drain the force from PLANETS. You'd have to assume the individual that could properly (and I doubt pansy Tavion could) would possess immense power.
[*]The Sith were truly an EMPIRE at that time. None of the pansy rising up crap that the early Sith had to deal with. None of the Sith that eradicated themselves that Bane had to deal with. It was in this HEIGHTENED empire that RAGNOS ruled unquestioned. Arguing against this would effectively be saying that the Five Good Emperors during Pax Romana aren't good leaders, that's bull.
[/list=1]
Does this list MEAN that Ragnos was the best?
No.
It doesn't prove a thing. But then again, none of these lists prove a thing.
This just shows that you SHOULDN'T use something that you DON'T know to count against him.
We are FULLY unaware of his powers. You argue that you shouldn't rank him high because of his powers. He deserves to be ranked high solely off reputation. You're DOCKING him for being an unknown quantity, which may I add, is definitely logical fallacy.