Originally posted by Mider
Once again does a Demiurgic blast occure when Lucifer Moringstar dies?
No it does not. Lucifer's energy is not The Demiurgic Energy. The Demiurgic Energy is, to put it bluntly, God's power. It is the Word of Fire that builds(or starts the building process) and breaks. As explained in Lucifer #13 by Archangel Raphael, Michael is the vessel for The Presence's divine power(Demiurgic Energy)). And if that vessel cracks or dies, the divine power that is inside of that vessel will automatically pour out and will destroy everything that is. Nothing will be left.
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
In order to exist, an entity that is not supreme has to be created, Synchro. If there was a period of time during which the Presence did not exist, he had to have been created.
Not really. Refer to Lucifer #5. One of the enemies of Lucifer are the beings called Jin En Mok. When the gateway to the void was opened by Lucifer(inside his lux bar), the Jin En Mok quickly sensed it and tried to take a hold of the gateway but they were stopped by Mazikeen and Jill Presto who contains the Basanos inside her(Lucifer wasnt there because he was at the home of the Japanese Gods).
The reason why the Jin En Mok desperately wants to get to the void was that the void was their home. They came into existence in the void. They also told Mazikeen to not mistake them into a creation of somebody, since nothing and no one rules over it. They said that the void maybe nothingness but someone can exist there. The only difference between the void and creation was that the beings existing in the void wasnt created by somebody. They just exist out of nowhere. They just take shape out of nowhere.
And Lucifer is Satan, but FOTF and TGEB are entirely different beings. As I said TGEB never even knew who he is and why he exists. FOTF never ruled hell for billions of years like Satan did.
cube says:
<<The Beast and Lucifer should be the same person.
The Presence didn't create the Great and Evil Beast?>>
they are definitely considered different beings in the theological world. the identity of the great beast is not known, however. he will be made known at some point in the future when he is freed from his prison in the ABYSS (not HELL) and is associated with the famous 666.
lucifer/satan resides in hell and will fall only after the beast is destroyed by god. satan, it is said, will then be bound in the abyss only to be later freed, achieve a measure of victory then be ultimately destroyed by god.
what is the abyss? one theory holds that it is a prison for wicked angels and evil 'spirits'. it is ruled by abaddon.
not sure what any of this means to the comic book world, but those are real world ideas - for what they're worth.
who or what the beast is, or where he came from are things no one knows - or at least i've never heard/read the answer.
what happens when lucifer dies??? what happened to him when he did die, somehow someone got him to use his powers on himself and he burned himself to death, i dont believe he destroyed very much around him when he killed himself, he did come back tho, death could not hold him. he then killed all of the monsters or w/e that made him kill himself 😄.
Originally posted by leonidas
cube says:<<The Beast and Lucifer should be the same person.
The Presence didn't create the Great and Evil Beast?>>they are definitely considered different beings in the theological world. the identity of the great beast is not known, however. he will be made known at some point in the future when he is freed from his prison in the ABYSS (not HELL) and is associated with the famous 666.
lucifer/satan resides in hell and will fall only after the beast is destroyed by god. satan, it is said, will then be bound in the abyss only to be later freed, achieve a measure of victory then be ultimately destroyed by god.
what is the abyss? one theory holds that it is a prison for wicked angels and evil 'spirits'. it is ruled by abaddon.
not sure what any of this means to the comic book world, but those are real world ideas - for what they're worth.
who or what the beast is, or where he came from are things no one knows - or at least i've never heard/read the answer.
In theology, everything that is, including the Beast, is created by God. Nothing existed before him, because he has always existed, and always will. Lucifer, the sun of the morning is the first of the fallen angels, who is called Satan.
The Great and Evil Beast will ascend from the abyss, or the pit. That's hell. On the beast's back sits Mystery, Babylon the Great, the Mother of Harlots and Abominations of the Earth. The Great and Evil Beast is the anti-christ, who will rise from the pit when the end of creation is nigh, to decieve man. The whore represents the sin of man. The beast is red, and has several heads, horns, and and crowns, representing kings.
The Great and Evil Beast is not as powerul as God. In fact, it is specifically stated that the Lamb will defeat the Beast, because he is the king of kings, and the lord of lords.
That's directly from the Bible. DC has put their own spin on things, I guess.
Originally posted by Mider
What happens if Lucifer Morningstar dies????????????????????????????????????????
I will die, because he and I are one.
well the Bible also talks about The End of All Things which is The Beast (anti-christ), (prob DC's TGEB) and says when everything is done Jesus Christ will give up his Kingdom on Earth and deliver everything else that he owns up to God the Father so he can put everything under him even The Beast, Lucifer and Death will then be below him forever and forever, in the end God the Father will win. so The Presence is God the Father and Jesus Christ is The Word (GOD) the very first Archangel, Jesus has a seat in Heaven next to the Father.
jesus is NOT an archangel. he is a part of the trinity - one part of god, along with the holy spirit. and you're right cube, god DID create everything (at least that is implied in christian theology) but there is no point of reference that i have ever found that LITERALLY says he created the beast. satan/lucifer, yes, but not the beast. the abyss and hell ARE considered different, though i'm not sure what exactly that difference is . . .
Originally posted by leonidas
jesus is NOT an archangel. he is a part of the trinity - one part of god, along with the holy spirit. and you're right cube, god DID create everything (at least that is implied in christian theology) but there is no point of reference that i have ever found that LITERALLY says he created the beast. satan/lucifer, yes, but not the beast. the abyss and hell ARE considered different, though i'm not sure what exactly that difference is . . .
You're right. Jesus isn't an angel at all. He is God. God the Father created everything, even the abyss, which is the pit, and hell. Another inconsistacy is God not existing at any point in time. God always existed, and always will exist. Alpha and Omega, from negative infinity to positive infinity. Before God, there was nothing, because ther is no 'before God'
Yup, I agree with Mider. We really shouldnt get so worked up over this DC following the Bible thingy. DC follows the religious themes of the Bible but it does NOT follow it entirely. There are as many differences between DC Comics and the Bible as there are similarities between them. And for me, because were in a comic forum, I would much rather refer to the comics than the bible.
And the comic states that TGEB is the OPPOSITE but EQUAL of Yahweh. Yahweh embodies Light and TGEB embodies Darkness. The Presence didnt even fight TGEB when it went up in heaven. He offered it to become one with him, to which TGEB agreed.
Originally posted by Mider
Dont get all religious in here people its a freaking comic.
I said that DC put their own spin on Judeo-Christian Theology. Someone disputed it, so I followed suit.
Originally posted by Synchro
Yup, I agree with Mider. We really shouldnt get so worked up over this DC following the Bible thingy. DC follows the religious themes of the Bible but it does NOT follow it entirely. There are as many differences between DC Comics and the Bible as there are similarities between them. And for me, because were in a comic forum, I would much rather refer to the comics than the bible.And the comic states that TGEB is the OPPOSITE but EQUAL of Yahweh. Yahweh embodies Light and TGEB embodies Darkness. The Presence didnt even fight TGEB when it went up in heaven. He offered it to become one with him, to which TGEB agreed.
What issue does this occur in? Is Yahweh the Presence?
What kgkg said. And the TGEB bit occured in Spectre vol. 3(I forgot the issue #)
And about Lucifer succeeding The Presence. Ive just brought Lucifer vol 6: Mansions of The Silence. And it contained issues #36 to #41. And its true and false. The false bit is that Lucifer is not the only successor of Presence(which brings us to the true bit), because Michael is also one.
In issue #38 they did look at The Presence's mind. And they found out that pretty much everything theyve(Lucifer and Michael) been through was a way for The Presence to decide who'll take over when he leaves. But The Presence came to realize that they complement each other, each has something the other lacks. So The Presence instead concluded that both of them should take his place(thats why in the latest issues, theyre pretty much the "bosses" of the DC multiverse).