Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
where do i start?ok, when ff8 has a movie then lets include AC and compare the two shall we? so stop trying to compare a movie and a game with a ten year age gap...
also, your comparing cloud in AC to squall in the opening sequence of ff8 where squall is still weak? are you illogical or just plain blind biased?
on tidus, sure he he curbstomps everybody including squall AND cloud if you compare them in the games, problem is, this isnt about tidus but instead, its squall VS cloud...
and if you use game mechanics, squall>>>>>>cloud, its as simple as that...
Yes, Tidus being able to beat everyone in-game is the problem. Realistically, he would die to Squall. This is why Squall would hardly stand a chance against Cloud in a real match. I agree with the fact Squall is capable of beating Cloud in a turn-based match, even though Cloud can defeat him in that type of match as well. Though, in a realistic fight, Cloud would kill Squall.
ooops, i m sorry, i forgot to write my post... 😮
who is "everyone"?
and, your comparing a movie ten years advanced to a game when its easier to compare a game with another game...
besides, about tidus being able to damage tens of thousands of damage to an opponent in a single attack is nothing new to squall...
omega weapon's meggido flame and terra break attacks deal more than 30,000 damage in a single attack, and squall can beat him...
that makes three (CLOUD, tidus, and zidane) ff heroes squall can own...
😮💨
but if you truly want to compare the movie to the game, then squall can just cast "hero" and lionheart cloud's ass all day...
all the strength, speed, reaction time, genova cells, blond hair blah blah blah wont help you against a literally invincible opponent...
-DT
Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
which is more appropriate and much more easier to compare...ff8 and ff7, or ff8 and AC?
.....................
yeah, i thought so too...
ooops, i m sorry, i forgot to write my post... 😮
who is "everyone"?
and, your comparing a movie ten years advanced to a game when its easier to compare a game with another game...
besides, about tidus being able to damage tens of thousands of damage to an opponent in a single attack is nothing new to squall...
omega weapon's meggido flame and terra break attacks deal more than 30,000 damage in a single attack, and squall can beat him...
that makes three (CLOUD, tidus, and zidane) ff heroes squall can own...
😮💨
but if you truly want to compare the movie to the game, then squall can just cast "hero" and lionheart cloud's ass all day...
all the strength, speed, reaction time, genova cells, blond hair blah blah blah wont help you against a literally invincible opponent...
-DT
You want to use spells now? Fine. Cloud uses Manipulate on Squall and makes him do whatever he commands. He can make him stand there vulnerably, while Cloud omnislashes his ass to oblivion. That, or he could use Transform to turn Squall into a frog or a hand-held item, which would obviously make him win the fight. See why spells should be excluded out of this?
So not only does Squall lose in the game battle, but he also loses in the realistic and more practical battle. That kind of sucks.
Originally posted by Cloud_VII
"Everyone" is the people who have played both Final Fantasy VII and VIII and have watched Advent Children.You want to use spells now? Fine. Cloud uses Manipulate on Squall and makes him do whatever he commands.
ive played both games and i still say squall wins with ease... 🙂
you cant use "manipulate" when squall is in "hero" mode... 🙂
down goes your "everyone" point...
down goes your "casting spells" point...
up goes squall to lionheart cloud's ass... 😮💨
again after the fight...
**squall kneels down to look grimly at the battered, smoking, bloodied and lifeless body of cloud as his lionheart gunblade glows ominously against the darkness**
😮💨
Originally posted by Cloud_VII
Cloud wins the majority whether you like it or not.
nope...
So not only does Squall lose in the game battle, but he also loses in the realistic and more practical battle. That kind of sucks.
the much more practical and realistic battle is between the two game versions which squall wins...
Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
ive played both games and i still say squall wins with ease... 🙂
Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
you cant use "manipulate" when squall is in "hero" mode... 🙂
http://www.ffinsider.net/ff8/magic_trans.php
Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
down goes your "everyone" point...
Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
down goes your "casting spells" point...
Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
up goes squall to lionheart cloud's ass... 😮💨
I'd also hate to burst your bubble, but "Hero" can only last for a while. After that, Squall's invincibility time is over. You know what that means; Squall's pretty much screwed then.
Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
again after the fight...**squall kneels down to look grimly at the battered, smoking, bloodied and lifeless body of cloud as his lionheart gunblade glows ominously against the darkness**
*Cloud looks down at the bloody, sliced up, lifeless and decomposing body of Squall as the pieces of his First Tsurugi lay on the ground around him.*
Does Manipulate use mana, I havent played FF7 in ages.
My vote still favours Squall, add Cloud's movie and it favours Cloud, but without the movie it favours Squall, personally I think Squall has been the strongest main character to date in-game, excluding FF11 and 12 which I haven't played as of yet so wouldn't know about.
A lot of Clouds attacks are based off of mana, which prevents him having the same freedom Zidane, Tidus or most of the other characters have, its because the style in gameplay is vastly different.
Originally posted by Cloud_VII
Excluding AC for the fact that there isn't a movie about FFVIII isn't acceptable. Everyone knows that Squall hasn't shown to be capable of doing what Cloud does, so you can't go on and say it's possible Squall could keep up with Cloud in a battle, even though he's clearly not in his league.Yes, Tidus being able to beat everyone in-game is the problem. Realistically, he would die to Squall. This is why Squall would hardly stand a chance against Cloud in a real match. I agree with the fact Squall is capable of beating Cloud in a turn-based match, even though Cloud can defeat him in that type of match as well. Though, in a realistic fight, Cloud would kill Squall.
No, I've got to agree with Draxx, you cannot state "Squall cannot do what Cloud did in AC" when it is all really dependent on technology. AC was made just to show what they could do with their new graphics and engines, which is preciley why it is over done with these super moves and cool stuff, of course they wouldn't show anything like that in a game made for the PS1.
For example, compare FF7 with AC, now pretend that it didn't have Cloud in it, now wouldn't you say "Cloud wouldn't stand a chance against the hero in AC", I bet you would, but that is still without support. Abscence of proof is not proof of abscence.
HOWEVER, IF it is to say that Squall has done absolutley nothing in the game (like fought someone super strong, someone fast, done something good, has good abilities), then we could say that Cloud is above him, but stating that Squall did not show any such cool things as AC is just not fair IMO.
Originally posted by kamikz
No, I've got to agree with Draxx, you cannot state "Squall cannot do what Cloud did in AC" when it is all really dependent on technology.
Originally posted by kamikz
AC was made just to show what they could do with their new graphics and engines, which is preciley why it is over done with these super moves and cool stuff, of course they wouldn't show anything like that in a game made for the PS1.
Originally posted by kamikz
For example, compare FF7 with AC, now pretend that it didn't have Cloud in it, now wouldn't you say "Cloud wouldn't stand a chance against the hero in AC", I bet you would,
Originally posted by kamikz
but that is still without support. Abscence of proof is not proof of abscence.
1- A faster reaction time than Squall.
2- A faster execution time than Squall.
3- More strength.
4- More speed.
5- Temporary flight.
6- Better Limit Breaks.
Originally posted by kamikz
HOWEVER, IF it is to say that Squall has done absolutley nothing in the game (like fought someone super strong, someone fast, done something good, has good abilities), then we could say that Cloud is above him, but stating that Squall did not show any such cool things as AC is just not fair IMO.
Listen, I wasn't arguing Squall > Cloud stupid, I was arguing that AC doesn't equal to Cloud being better, if Cloud is genetically enhanced, sure ok, I was just arguing that you cannot use AC as a single source and state "Squall can't do that", obviously they didn't have that technology.
And of course I know that FF has CG scenes, so? Not at NEARLY the same level, AC was MADE to show how superior their technology have become, and to show how the next FF game would look like, so yes, obviously it must be better than the old FF8 for PS1.
Originally posted by Cloud_VII
It actually isn't. If you've read back, you'd know Cloud is genetically and physically superior to Squall due to the fact that Cloud has Jenova's cells and recieved Mako enhancements. Squall can't do what Cloud did since he has never shown to be able to do things like what Cloud did in Advent Children, in-game or in cutscenes. Why isn't the fight between Squall and Seifer similar to the fight between Cloud and Kadaj? Those are BOTH CG sequences, and it's quite funny that someone thinks Squall has improved so much since then that he can actually rival Cloud.
You are a bit confused, you know? Squall also has super human stats thanks to the Guardian Force junctions. They even mention it in the game about how the Guardian Forces make them much more powerful and deadly, so yeah if Squall was given a 2007 CGI action flick he would be doing pretty much everything Cloud did and more. Why aren't they similar? Because of the difference in technology. You just cannot argue against that fact. Squall has taken ice pillars struck against his upper body and he has managed to survive; a stunt that is very comparable to what Cloud survived when Sephiroth impaled him on the Masamune.
Cloud shouldn't rival Squall, for Squall is actually a better strategist at a younger age. Brains over muscle I say, not that Squall couldn't take the fight to Cloud anyway.
Where the hell are you getting graphics and engines from? AC is entirely a CG movie, and FFVIII has CG sequences. They can create anything they want in those.
No, they can't create anything they want. Do you really believe what you're saying? There are always limitations in technology; why else do you think there wasn't a single CGI fight scene in FFVII? Why do you think there is so much action and almost 0 story in Advent Children? Exactly.
If the person has shown abilities that are far above the other, it should be pretty obvious who'd win...so would you say the person with the inferior traits would prevail against someone who's superior to him in every way?
Except in-game Cloud isn't above Squall, and Squall is smarter, more tactical and overall the better soldier.
Cloud has:1- A faster reaction time than Squall.
2- A faster execution time than Squall.
3- More strength.
4- More speed.
5- Temporary flight.
6- Better Limit Breaks.
1- Says who?
2- Not really. Squall's active turn is indeed faster than Cloud's, and the fact that Gunblade is not as big as the First Tsurugi or buster Sword makes it easier for Squall to execute.
3- Debatable; though I might give the slight edge to Cloud.
4- Debatable; though again I might give the edge to Cloud.
5- Bullshit. That's just inconsitency from Square's CGI team.
6- Cloud doesn't have the better limit breaks. Heck never has and never will. Lion Heart plain and simple >>>>> Cloud's limits and that's without Renzokuken
I'm not trying to say Squall can't win. The chance is there, but it's slight. Squall is neither stronger, faster, or more aware of his surroundings than Cloud since he doesn't have Jenova Cells nor has he ever recieved Mako enhancements, or anything of the sort. The only thing he's recieved is experience from training. Cloud has recieved training in the military as well, and bringing up any game mechanics as I've mentioned is pointless. It would be a curbstomp in Cloud's favor since he could take control of Squall's mind and just make Squall kill himself.
Squall doesn't need Jenova cells, nor Mako enhancements for he already has upgrades thanks to the Guardian Force junctions. Cloud also failed his military training to the point he even assumed the identity of another, go figure? Cloud mind raping Squall? Not a chance. Squall has great Will, and Cloud isn't exactly the strongest willed being in existence, besides game mechanics just render Cloud useless against Squall because the match would go like this:
1. Both wait for their turns to come up, and Squall's comes first for FF8's turn system is indeed faster than FF7's.
2. Squall uses hero and becomes invulnerable to any harm or status affecting spells.
3. Cloud tries manipulate Squall and fails; not to mention that command materia often failed during the game, and against someone like Squall it wouldn't work, but nevermind Squall has hero just to make sure.
4. Squall's turn comes again and he casts aura on himself. Free Limit Breaks YAY.
5. Cloud either attacks to no effect or attempts to defend himself.
6. Squall spams Lion Heart all over the place.
The match isn't as one sided as you make it seem, buddy.