Cloud vs. Squall

Started by draxx_tOfU5 pages

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
Only you and a few others thought Squall would win. Everyone else agreed Cloud would win.

You can't use "Hero" when Cloud's taking control of your mind. Also, Manipulate isn't a spell in the FFVIII universe as far as I'm concerned.

i meant that you cant use "any" kind of spell when squall is in "hero" mode...

Umm..no, and bringing up spells would be more of a problem for Squall anyway.

nah, cloud is screwed if we used spells... 🙂

Sure. Cloud will stand there and let Squall lionheart his ass. Alright, Cloud charges Squall and cuts his head off in a second before Squall casted Hero on himself, and yes, it could happen.

I'd also hate to burst your bubble, but "Hero" can only last for a while. After that, Squall's invincibility time is over. You know what that means; Squall's pretty much screwed then.

it only takes one lionheart my friend... 🙂

how can cloud cut his head off before he can cast "hero" when squall is in auto-haste... 😈

After the fight...

*Cloud looks down at the bloody, sliced up, lifeless and decomposing body of Squall as the pieces of his First Tsurugi lay on the ground around him.*

**after both heroes clash majestically in midair, cloud lands perfectly on both feet only to realize in horror that blood is staining his vision...his head throbs and he feels something he has never felt in a long time...fear...he looks up to scan for his opponent and is shocked he is nowhere to be found...he turns around and the sight almost paralyzes him...eyes flashing, gunblade poised and glowing, energy furiously swirling around him, squall charges with blinding speed and...(Lionheart sequence)...as cloud feels the cold embrace of death, he now knew peace in dying a warrior's death...with his last thought he only wished that he could have met squall earlier, for he could have asked him to teach him to fight... 😮‍💨 😈 😄

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
You are a bit confused, you know? Squall also has super human stats thanks to the Guardian Force junctions. They even mention it in the game about how the Guardian Forces make them much more powerful and deadly, so yeah if Squall was given a 2007 CGI action flick he would be doing pretty much everything Cloud did and more. Why aren't they similar? Because of the difference in technology. You just cannot argue against that fact. Squall has taken ice pillars struck against his upper body and he has managed to survive; a stunt that is very comparable to what Cloud survived when Sephiroth impaled him on the Masamune. Cloud shouldn't rival Squall, for Squall is actually a better strategist at a younger age. Brains over muscle I say, not that Squall couldn't take the fight to Cloud anyway. No, they can't create anything they want. Do you really believe what you're saying? There are always limitations in technology; why else do you think there wasn't a single CGI fight scene in FFVII? Why do you think there is so much action and almost 0 story in Advent Children? Exactly. Except in-game Cloud isn't above Squall, and Squall is smarter, more tactical and overall the better soldier. 1- Says who? 2- Not really. Squall's active turn is indeed faster than Cloud's, and the fact that Gunblade is not as big as the First Tsurugi or buster Sword makes it easier for Squall to execute. 3- Debatable; though I might give the slight edge to Cloud. 4- Debatable; though again I might give the edge to Cloud. 5- Bullshit. That's just inconsitency from Square's CGI team. 6- Cloud doesn't have the better limit breaks. Heck never has and never will. Lion Heart plain and simple >>>>> Cloud's limits and that's without Renzokuken. Squall doesn't need Jenova cells, nor Mako enhancements for he already has upgrades thanks to the Guardian Force junctions. Cloud also failed his military training to the point he even assumed the identity of another, go figure? Cloud mind raping Squall? Not a chance. Squall has great Will, and Cloud isn't exactly the strongest willed being in existence, besides game mechanics just render Cloud useless against Squall because the match would go like this: 1. Both wait for their turns to come up, and Squall's comes first for FF8's turn system is indeed faster than FF7's. 2. Squall uses hero and becomes invulnerable to any harm or status affecting spells. 3. Cloud tries manipulate Squall and fails; not to mention that command materia often failed during the game, and against someone like Squall it wouldn't work, but nevermind Squall has hero just to make sure. 4. Squall's turn comes again and he casts aura on himself. Free Limit Breaks YAY. 5. Cloud either attacks to no effect or attempts to defend himself. 6. Squall spams Lion Heart all over the place. The match isn't as one sided as you make it seem, buddy.
Squall's in-game stats such as his strength, magic power, and speed can be raised if a Guardian Force provides the junctions. However, this is comparing the game versions and not the realistic and practical versions. If we go by that then we can say Squall = Rinoa, Cloud = Tifa, Tidus = Auron, and so on. This is juxtaposing the characters' in-game stats. That also means Tidus can one-shot every Aeon, character, and boss that has below 99,999 Health Points with an Energy Rain 😬. Either way, Cloud also can increase his stats in the game with certain materia.

NAME: Magic Plus
EFFECT: Increases user Magic stat
LEVELS: 5
LEVEL EFFECT: Level x 20 = % Increase

NAME: MP Plus
EFFECT: Increases users Max MP
LEVELS: 5
LEVEL EFFECT: Level x 20 = % Increase

NAME: Speed Plus
EFFECT: Increases users Dexterity stat
LEVELS: 5
LEVEL EFFECT: Level x 20 = % Increase

NAME: HP Absorb
EFFECT: User gains HP equal to 1/10 of the damage done by linked materia
LEVELS: 2
LOCATION: Wutai
NOTE: Pair with Knight of the Round to heal yourself back up to max while dealing massive damage to your enemies.

NAME: MP Turbo
EFFECT: Increases the power of the linked materia
LEVELS: 5
LEVEL EFFECT: Level * 10 = % Increase in power and MP cost

NAME: Quadra Magic
EFFECT: Linked magic materia spell or summon materia is 4 times
LEVELS: 5

Though seriously, I could care less about which game version is better. I really don't care. FF's battle systems is so unlike an action-based game or movie. You and I don't like to compare characters from FF games because of the complex and sophisticated battle systems they have. Please tell me how exactly is Squall above Cloud in any way leaving out gameplay mechanics and stats. I wasn't comparing FFVII. I was comparing AC to FFVIII, which did have fight scenes and clips. My point was that in CG quality scenes, anything could happen since it's all pre-rendered. People could make it look like anything they want. I don't care about in-game mechanics since it favors 15 year-old Rikku from X over 20 year-old Cloud and 17 year-old Squall any day of the week. How's Squall smarter? Also, just because Squall is a SeeD, doesn't make him the better soldier since the qualifications of both classes of mercenaries could be different. Plus, Squall has NEVER shown to able to do things like what Cloud did. If VIII's story ended at the end of the game, oh well. VII's story is divided into several games and movies that further the story and can be used regardless of the fact that there isn't an entire CG movie for VIII. I'm comparing the best of what both characters have shown to do in cutscenes, since it helps to say who would win in the most practical battle. Squall has never shown to be able to dodge bullets or slice through a mortocycle coming at him at 55 mph after realizing it was several yards away from him. I'm also not comparing in-game execution time since it's inconsistent enough as it is. Besides, Cloud could hasten himself with Speed Plus. Yeah, Cloud is stronger. The day Squall can knock someone a hundred yards away in one swing is the day that I say Squall's strength matches Cloud's. Speed is a no brainer; if Cloud's speed is faster than Squall's, his execution time should be as well; I'm not talking about turn-based stuff or time-taking spells. Yeah, Squall can fly temporarily. This is due to the fact that he has Jenova's cells. He's also stonger, and faster than Squall for that same reason. Remember the once instant in the movie where Sephiroth asks Cloud where'd he got his strength? That's from the Jenova cells and mako enhancements. Why do you think Barret, Cid, and Tifa can't do what Cloud can? About Limit Breaks; Cloud's Omnislash version 5 is better than any of Squall's Limit Breaks. You don't agree? I don't care 😄. Recieving junctions from the GFs happens in gameplay. Look, Tidus can have a weapon equipped with Deathtouch or Stonetouch and he could kill any character in one hit from that weapon. Comparing two FF characters and giving them all the options they have in the game would be pretty much an endless battle. i.e., person A does this, person B counters that, person A casts this, person B reflects that, and so on. Therefore, it is boring comparing two characters this way. Cloud not mind raping Squall? You can't be taking away his abilities now. It grants him the option of taking over Squall's mind, whether Squall's will is great or not. Once that's done, it's game over Squall. Again, I don't like to compare the game versions for several already mentioned reasons. No, Cloud has the Pre-Emptive materia which increases the chance of a surprise attack on the other team. Thus, Cloud executing the first move would use manipulate on Squall and make him kill himself. Oh, and if we take the route you set out for the two, Squall's Hero spell lasts only for a few minutes. Cloud would just wait until then seeing as how Squall can't even get him; this should be obvious. Afterwards, Cloud casts Stop and Squall and uses Omnislash Version 5 to kill him. This match isn't as one-sided as you make it seem either. However, I am agreeable with calling it a draw since it's got boring.

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
i meant that you cant use "any" kind of spell when squall is in "hero" mode...

Like it matters? For starters, Squall's Hero mode doesn't last more than a few minutes, added with the fact Cloud gets to do the first move since he has Pre-Emptive...

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
nah, cloud is screwed if we used spells... 🙂

Nah, Squall is screwed if we used spells 🙂

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
it only takes one lionheart my friend... 🙂

And it takes 1 Omnislash to kill Squall. Problem with that is Squall can't hit Cloud seeing as how he's faster and can travel for tens of miles per hour.

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
how can cloud cut his head off before he can cast "hero" when squall is in auto-haste... 😈

Does it take half a second to cast Hero? Also, Cloud can hasten himself while slowing down Squall or stopping him outright before he casts Hero. So much for that, huh?

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
**after both heroes clash majestically in midair, cloud lands perfectly on both feet only to realize in horror that blood is staining his vision...his head throbs and he feels something he has never felt in a long time...fear...he looks up to scan for his opponent and is shocked he is nowhere to be found...he turns around and the sight almost paralyzes him...eyes flashing, gunblade poised and glowing, energy furiously swirling around him, squall charges with blinding speed and...(Lionheart sequence)...as cloud feels the cold embrace of death, he now knew peace in dying a warrior's death...with his last thought he only wished that he could have met squall earlier, for he could have asked him to teach him to fight... 😮‍💨 😈 😄

You keep fantasizing that 😆

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
Squall's in-game stats such as his strength, magic power, and speed can be raised if a Guardian Force provides the junctions. However, this is comparing the game versions and not the realistic and practical versions.

😆 😆 😆

explain to me why comparing a movie to the game is much more "practical" and "realistic" than comparing the game versions of both... 🙄

FF's battle systems is so unlike an action-based game or movie.

and then you say stuff like this and contradict yourself... 🙄

Does it take half a second to cast Hero? Also, Cloud can hasten himself while slowing down Squall or stopping him outright before he casts Hero. So much for that, huh?

squall can junction "initiative", and can cast stop and slow himself... 🙄

No, Cloud has the Pre-Emptive materia which increases the chance of a surprise attack on the other team

just increases the chance? initiative GAURANTEES squall makes the first move... 😉

Squall's Hero spell lasts only for a few minutes. Cloud would just wait until then seeing as how Squall can't even get him; this should be obvious.

😆 cloud wont have a chance to wait until squall's hero wears off as he is being slashed to a hundred pieces...even then squall can junction auto-haste to instantly cast hero again... 🙂

Either way, Cloud also can increase his stats in the game with certain materia.

squall's junction >>> cloud's materia

tell you what, look at all those who have voted for cloud in any of the squall vs cloud thread, and fat chances are, you wont find a reason behind their posts to justify their answer...

you know why...

because game versions of both, squall trumps cloud any day of the week...

**looks at your name and avatar**

oh well...

Suddenly Kirby comes along, sucks them both in, instant ownage 😛

Kirby rules all 😛

I would accept the GF junction stat increase to be merely a gameplay mechanic IF Squall and his party didn't mention it throughout the story during the 2nd disc.

Mind Raping? Cloud is not a telepath. He just has the command materia, and that command fails more often than not, and to top it all it fails on Boss level characters, which I would rank Squall as a boss/hero. Not to mention I find it not to be in Cloud's character to attempt to mind control someone the same way he was being controlled by Sephiroth. Besides I'm not taking away the ability, for it isn't an ability of his, it's just materia.

There's no debate, Squall's limit breaks deal more damage than Cloud's.

To be honest I see Cloud taking more wins than Squall, but the SeeD can pull some surprising victories.

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
explain to me why comparing a movie to the game is much more "practical" and "realistic" than comparing the game versions of both... 🙄

I'd love to. It's because in-game, a blitzball (which is the equivilent of an underwater soccerball) can kill anyone from the cast of FFVIII in one hit. Realistically, would it kill anyone? Nope.

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
and then you say stuff like this and contradict yourself... 🙄

Obviously, you don't comprehend statements very well. I never said that I wouldn't use FF's gameplay mechanics if another insists on using it even after I proved how it doesn't work. You argue gameplay mechanics, then I'll do the same thing only to shoot down your arguments.

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
squall can junction "initiative", and can cast stop and slow himself... 🙄

Cloud can use "Pre-Emptive", stop Squall, and then use KOTR.

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
just increases the chance? initiative GAURANTEES squall makes the first move... 😉

😂 And what makes you think Cloud WON'T get the first move? Also, this still does nothing to help Squall being stopped in time or mind raped once his "hero mode" runs out. Hint: Squall lacks the speed and flight to hit Cloud. Plus, you act like Cloud would just stand there unarmed.

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
😆 cloud wont have a chance to wait until squall's hero wears off as he is being slashed to a hundred pieces...even then squall can junction auto-haste to instantly cast hero again...

hysterical I would love to see Squall demonstrate the kind of speed and power Cloud has shown in the movie, and you think Cloud doesn't have weapons like Squall? Guess what I'm going to do now? I'll leave out the First Tsurugi and incorporate the most powerful weapon Cloud gets in his game, which is the Ultima Weapon, made by Ultima himself. Now I don't see how Cloud doesn't knock the Lionheart out of Squall's hands and proceeds to level Squall as soon as his invulnerability mode wears off, and it's funny how you apparently think that Squall is doing the fighting whereas Cloud is standing there helplessly. Oh and are you sure Hero is "casted"? You sure it's not used as an item 😆 you know, that thing that is limited in supply? Secondly, auto-haste isn't any faster than haste, and given Cloud has several materia such as Speed Plus, Sneak Attack, Pre-Emptive, slow, stop, and Haste, I'd say the first move goes is in Cloud's favor...😮‍💨

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
squall's junction >>> cloud's materia

Cloud's Materia >>>> Squall's junctions

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
tell you what, look at all those who have voted for cloud in any of the squall vs cloud thread, and fat chances are, you wont find a reason behind their posts to justify their answer...

I've given pretty much all the reasons as to why Cloud crushes Squall leaving out gameplay mechanics since it states blitzball player Wakka >>>>>>>>> Squall and the entire cast of FFVIII.

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
you know why...

because game versions of both, squall trumps cloud any day of the week...


Not with the way I proved that wrong.

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
**looks at your name and avatar**

oh well...


At least I can admit when a character I'm a fan of loses as opposed to someone who thinks Squall is invincible 😆

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
There's no debate, Squall's limit breaks deal more damage than Cloud's.

Damage limit in VIII is 9,999 as well as in VII. Secondly, Wakka's limit breaks deals 10 times the amount of damage Cloud and Squall's limit breaks do in-game. You see why gameplay mechanics aren't reliable?

Damn that’s a lot to read.

It seem to be a matter of opinion only because each attack or spell used by either person has another attack or spell that just as good or close to as good.

I would say cloud wins 70% of the time due to genova cells enhancing him in every aspect, and squall is just a normal human.

...

Normal humans do not survive getting impaled by huge magical pillars of ice..

Or escape a time trap...

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
Damage limit in VIII is 9,999 as well as in VII. Secondly, Wakka's limit breaks deals 10 times the amount of damage Cloud and Squall's limit breaks do in-game. You see why gameplay mechanics aren't reliable?

yes, but who has more hits in their overdrive? Ding Ding Ding! Squall...

Cloud can use "Pre-Emptive", stop Squall, and then use KOTR.

null and void...this is what you said earlier about pre-emptive...

Cloud has the Pre-Emptive materia which increases the chance of a surprise attack on the other team.

again, just increases the CHANCE? squall junctioning initiative GAURANTEES squall attacks first...

Not with the way I proved that wrong.

😂 youve proved nothing and you still INSIST on COMPARING the movie against the game...

a desperate and pathetic attempt...

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Or escape a time trap...

that's right...

aside from the fact that cloud has no answer to squall's "hero"...

plus, all of the major bosses from ff8 can easily take out the whole cast of ff7...

ultima weapon and omega weapon = dead ff7 cast...

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
yes, but who has more hits in their overdrive? Ding Ding Ding! Squall...
Doesn't matter since normal attacks deal as much damage (9,999 in this case) as hits in characters' overdrives do.

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
null and void...this is what you said earlier about pre-emptive...
Wtf are you smoking? I said it increases the chances of a pre-emptive attack on the enemy in a turn-based match.

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
again, just increases the CHANCE? squall junctioning initiative GAURANTEES squall attacks first...
Null argument. 1. Cloud can block his attacks with the Ultima Weapon, 2. Squall's to slow for Cloud.

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
aside from the fact that cloud has no answer to squall's "hero"...
It seems that Squall has no answer to the fact that "Hero" can only be used as an item which is limited in supply, and the fact that it's limited in time. Neither does Squall have an answer to his inability to hit Cloud in the first place 😆 and you still haven't told me what Squall would do when Cloud manipulates him or transforms him once Squall's hero mode runs out.

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
plus, all of the major bosses from ff8 can easily take out the whole cast of ff7...
Prove it.

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
😂 youve proved nothing
In your head maybe.

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
and you still INSIST on COMPARING the movie against the game...
How dense are you? I was never comparing what Cloud did in his movie to what Squall does in-game. I was comparing everything Cloud has shown to do in CGI sequences and cutscenses as well as what Squall has shown to do in those. The reason I don't compare in-game versions of FF characters is because of the fact that it's inconsistent. Storywise, Tidus cannot one-shot all the Aeons, bosses, and characters in every FF title with one of his limit breaks. Wakka cannot insta-kill Squall with a damn soccerball. Kimahri cannot do shit to the Omega Weapon in FFX with a lance. Yuna shooting bullets at Vegnagun is stupid, etc.

According to your logic, we can say that Wakka who only uses a sports ball to fight can disable ever known character and boss in the FFVIII realm including Ultimecia. However, any FF fan would know that is bullshit due to the fact that FF's battle system is inconsistent. What happens in cutscenes and CGI events is never wrong. That's why we should compare FF characters from what they've shown to do in those.

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
a desperate and pathetic attempt...
It's pathetic to compare FF characters by only using in-game mechanics when it's true that one of the weakest and most inferior of characters can one-shot any of the most powerful villains and bosses in the FF universe. It's desperate to not include what FF characters have done in canon movies and CG events since it's just a way from keeping the other character from getting pounded.

it sounds like your making excuses, firstly, AC is not nesisarily Canon, secondly, why do you keep saying Squall is slow? you've seen the cinematics, you've seen the in-game CG and gameplay...

you went straight for the Omnislash argument, well, here's to crushing Overdrives. Renzokuken to Lionheart with the Damage Limiter off >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Any version of the Omnislash, even with the damage limiter off for any of them.

AC is canon because it's part of the FFVII storyline, not to mention it's made by Square Enix themselves.

I use game mechanics if another person will use it even though it's been proven as bullshit. Basically, your argument is that Squall's Renzozuken deals more damage than Cloud's limit breaks since he deals more hits. ANY kind of hit or attack deal the same amount of damage as hits in overdrives do in the VII and VIII realm. The damage limiter can as well be taken out of FFVII, so null argument.

That doesn't prove that the Omnislash is a better attack than Lionheart now does it...? If your going to follow that lineof thought, you may as well think that the omnislash is better than the Zantetsuken.

And AC getting consideration only means that Cloud has more screentime (Not to mention more popular with the fanboys)... which will lead me to conclude that your basing your decision more on popularity than capability... remember, Cloud has simply got more screentime than Squall, does that mean he is BETTER than Squall? No, not at all...

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
That doesn't prove that the Omnislash is a better attack than Lionheart now does it...? If your going to follow that lineof thought, you may as well think that the omnislash is better than the Zantetsuken.

And AC getting consideration only means that Cloud has more screentime (Not to mention more popular with the fanboys)... which will lead me to conclude that your basing your decision more on popularity than capability... remember, Cloud has simply got more screentime than Squall, does that mean he is BETTER than Squall? No, not at all...

agreed... 🙂

he(C7) doesnt get it though... 🙁