Originally posted by Darth_Frobo
Where did anakins midichlorian count get him? having midichlorians is great but its definitley not a deciding factor, he had more midichlorians then obi-won but he still lost because obi-won was smarter, same thing would apply if obi was a better swordsman or more powerful with the force, midichlorians determine how powerful you can become not how powerful you are.
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Originally posted by Darth Mantis
Darth Revan is nothing special... He has supposedly found a holocron with ancient sith teachings, someone here said he learned all the lightsaber forms, and can stand the full force of the star forge... But yet NJO Luke Skywalker could most likely beat him and he didn't have any of that stuff...
Originally posted by Darth Mantis
Darth Revan is nothing special... He has supposedly found a holocron with ancient sith teachings, someone here said he learned all the lightsaber forms, and can stand the full force of the star forge... But yet NJO Luke Skywalker could most likely beat him and he didn't have any of that stuff...
Revan is very special, he learned everything he could from the jedi archives, the sith tombs,malachor v a planet full of sith teachings and put all this combined knowledge into combat which he used to perfect his lightsaber skills and force abilities, he had more knowledge of lightsaber combat and force powers than anyone ever throw in battle pre cog and he's one tough bastard. I've written a long list of his accomplishments before as for him losing to NJO luke I don't think so and you could read the reasons for that in the Revan v.s NJo luke debate. The poll meant nothing as maybe two of the 14 who voted for luke could actually defend him, read the debate because that determines the truth.
Originally posted by Darth Mantis
Yoda had 900 years of experience but how did that help him the match against Sidious... So experience cannot be a deciding factor in winning... There also has to be power...
Originally posted by Darth Mantis
Who else has Revan defeated? Malak was nothing... The star forge really didn't have much power to me, even at difficult...
thats game you are talking nothing more...
The Star Forge had the power of a sun, and an ancient race that once dominated the galaxy. Malak put the power of dozens of Jedi in him and absorbed even more when you fought him.
Those droids Revan fought by the dozens all could have easily killed a Jedi according to Malak. He was actually surprised to learn somebody made it through. Not as surprised when he heard it was Revan but thats not the point.
Then there are the Terentak. One of those creatures can kill a good Jedi. Revan faced at least two of them at once by himself, and another 2 with his friends (probably)
Yeah he defeated other impressive things.
Originally posted by Fishy
The fact of the matter is however he wasn't all that much superior to Sidious who didn't learn for 900 years. And Yoda could not have had all the things that Revan had to learn from.
Can we realy say he is not superior to Sidious ?
Yoda is limited to a certain degree by the rules of the Jedi Order. We don't know, what he wants to do with Sidious. Did he wanted Sidious dead or just defeated ? That is a question because it is harder to capture somebody like Sidious than simply kill him when that person wants to kill you. Same with Dooku.
A good point from Nai is the speed thing, yeah Yoda could be a lot faster but once you see his fights you would know that he does very little with it and the Jedi can still block his attacks so he may be faster and it maybe hard to hit him but as long as he doesn't hit Revan who cares about that?
Well...
Yoda can't get hit by three Jedi Council Members who try to do so. He can't get hit by Dooku. He can't get hit by Sidious. I don't think that Revan would be able to do that. If you assume that Yoda can't hit Revan this would be a never ending fight.
Most of it just keeps on going back to the age thing, and that doesn't help him against Sidious so there is no reason to assume it would help him against Revan who was studying a large part of his life.
And again there is the question if Yoda ever did come close to use his full power against any opponent. He is a very passive fighter and force user. There are only two "agressive" actions from him both in ROTS:
First when he enteres Sidious room and smashed that two red guards of Sidious against the wall (and they were down immediatly) and the second when he threw Sidious across the entire room. And both things didn't cost him much energy. For me that are the two situations where we can see what Yoda probably COULD do and I think he can do much more "powerful" things if he wants or needs to do so.
And even though Darkstar in his posts heavily limits Revan his time for learning I just can't agree with that. Revan was legendaric, why would he only become a master at 28? Besides he was allowed in those archives long before that he constantly learned more from a lot of Masters. Zhar even admitted to teaching him to much to fast, knowledge that Revan should not have known at that time. Also according to Kreia Revan learned a lot from her and then learned from a lot of other masters but when they had nothing else to teach him he left them again and came back to her.This doesn't really mean he literally learned everything, but pretty much everything he needed.
I don't want to argue that Revan learned much or at least everything that he needed. I just say you can't learn as many things in 30 years as another guy can learn in 900 years. And even the Jedi had knowledge that only a few people (not even all council members) had access to and therefore Revan might never knew it.
For example morichro (ancient Jedi technique that rapidly slows down the body functions of target beings) or the technique to cut peoples connection to the force (that what the Council wants to use on the Exile in KOTOR 2). You can assume that Yoda had access to that knowledge and would use it if he realy has to.
Reading threw it again, i've also seen an entire argument about Battle pre-cog thrown away by saying people can be killed.. A waste because it does help Revan a lot. Other arguments there are good, but just not good enough IMO. Nothing that really makes me think Yoda has an edge in anything except for Speed on Revan.
Oh...does it realy help Revan a lot ?
As far as I could get it from everything I heard while playing the KOTOR games that gift is no supernatural power it is just the ability to predict an opponents moves that actualy comes from fighting experience. Yes...I know their were people that could see the actions taken in whole battles and Revan could even see oversee whole wars but that is - in my oppinion - more because of his tactical genius.
Do you realy think that would aid Revan that well in a duel with somebody that uses very uncommon and unpredictable moves like Yoda does ? Still the Echani masters died and you can see the Exile defeating the 5 Echani handmaidens at once (training on Telos). So that thing is not that impressive and useful otherwise that things happened have to be considered being impossible, since the masters of that technique should not get defeated or killed.
Originally posted by FishyThe ancient race is the Rakatan... Yoda can most likely takes dozens of the Star Forge droids... Even though revan took down two Terentak by himself, what would make you think Yoda couldn't do it... Remember Yoda's agility, he can most likely take those two creatures down or more... Aren't they resistent to the force... Well those creatures aren't that fast, and Yoda could take those creatures down without them touching him...
thats game you are talking nothing more...The Star Forge had the power of a sun, and an ancient race that once dominated the galaxy. Malak put the power of dozens of Jedi in him and absorbed even more when you fought him.
Those droids Revan fought by the dozens all could have easily killed a Jedi according to Malak. He was actually surprised to learn somebody made it through. Not as surprised when he heard it was Revan but thats not the point.
Then there are the Terentak. One of those creatures can kill a good Jedi. Revan faced at least two of them at once by himself, and another 2 with his friends (probably)
Yeah he defeated other impressive things.
Originally posted by Darth Mantis
The ancient race is the Rakatan... Yoda can most likely takes dozens of the Star Forge droids... Even though revan took down two Terentak by himself, what would make you think Yoda couldn't do it... Remember Yoda's agility, he can most likely take those two creatures down or more... Aren't they resistent to the force... Well those creatures aren't that fast, and Yoda could take those creatures down without them touching him...