All credit to Nai Fohl!!!
He defends Yoda like a hero, and I agree with most of it!!!
No matter what else been said, Yoda is so fast and well trained, that it is almost impossible to hit him, in the duels with Dooku and Sidious, they Don't even get close, to have a chance, to be able to hit Yoda!!
Revan is one of the most powerful siths, nobody can argue that (of course they could, but not with valid proof....) but still he would loose to Yoda in a one on one saber fight.
Originally posted by Darth_Frobo
Your ignorance procedes you, everything Revan had done has been legendary, He had much much more force knowledge then yoda, yoda may have had 850 years but he didn't have nearly the sources Revan did, some of what Revan learned could only be learned at malachor or only be learned at korriban or could only be learned from Revan himsef, no force power yoda has used would be foreign to Revan, but yoda could't learn what revan did as he simply didn't have the sources nor was he able to practice his force abilities in combat as much as revan could. As for yoda being a better swordsman, Revan was a tactical genius with battle pre-cog and a practically flawless lightsaber form, attaru has several defensive flaws, if the exile could kill another attaru master (vrook) with practically no training so it's far from perfect. Revan is almiost 3 times as powerful as the exile and he invented his own saber technique. As for yoda being able to do what revan did, he was never in a situation to do something close to as good so you can't say that s you have no proof. Yoda DOES NOT have more knowledge of the force period.
Its your ignorance that leads you. About that statement you said about Yoda does not have clearly enough knowledge to meet Revan's...Yoda has the entire Jedi Archives to study from. It contains information dating back to possibly the first Jedi. How does Revan have more knowledge of the Force, than Yoda? Revan lived about 30-40 years to get knoweledge...Yoda's lived to be 900 years old and has experienced things Revan couldn't possibly have. In studying...Yoda knows about Darth Revan, but nothing Revan has...has given him knowledge of Yoda.
Another one of your arguments stated that Master Vrook knew the same lightsaber form as Yoda, but yet he still died. In KOTOR did we ever see him actually use this form. Form IV is the most acrobatic form ever developed. While using this form a Jedi uses the Force to go beyond what is physically possible. Jumps, spins and runs. The form is filled with elaborate moves in which the Jedi stands in the centur of the blur formed by his/her lightsaber. Vrook was far from mastering this form.
And that other statement saying that Revan developed his own form...where is your proof of this...or is this just something a Darth Revan fan has created in his/her fantasy.
Originally posted by Darth Plagues
Its your ignorance that leads you. About that statement you said about Yoda does not have clearly enough knowledge to meet Revan's...Yoda has the entire Jedi Archives to study from. It contains information dating back to possibly the first Jedi. How does Revan have more knowledge of the Force, than Yoda? Revan lived about 30-40 years to get knoweledge...Yoda's lived to be 900 years old and has experienced things Revan couldn't possibly have. In studying...Yoda knows about Darth Revan, but nothing Revan has...has given him knowledge of Yoda.Another one of your arguments stated that Master Vrook knew the same lightsaber form as Yoda, but yet he still died. In KOTOR did we ever see him actually use this form. Form IV is the most acrobatic form ever developed. While using this form a Jedi uses the Force to go beyond what is physically possible. Jumps, spins and runs. The form is filled with elaborate moves in which the Jedi stands in the centur of the blur formed by his/her lightsaber. Vrook was far from mastering this form.
And that other statement saying that Revan developed his own form...where is your proof of this...or is this just something a Darth Revan fan has created in his/her fantasy.
Good points nia fohl this is getting interesting that being said there are certain points about Revan where you are mistaken,
-He did in fact have the jedi archives on dantooine as in the game if you ask to see them you're told that only masters or knights are allowed, Revan was a master at 25 so he was more than allowed to acess those archives as well as the ones on ossus, in kotor II kreia said, "He searched all the knowledge the jedi had to offer but found it to be lacking so he came to me." or something along those lines.
-I was not saying that Revan could have learned as much as yoda if they'd had the same sources, I was saying that Revan was more than able to get all the knowledge he could from his sources which were more extensive then yoda's and had more to teach.
-"There are techniques within the force for which there is no defense." This is NOT just refering to Nhilus she said techniques plural. Yoda wouldn't have knowledge of some of the things revan could throw against him, never mind some aren't blockable.
-Attaru does have defensive flaws in it plain and simple, vrook the most powerful jedi master at his time whose knowledge of attaru was as masterful as yoda's got owned by the exile, why? Because of three reasons.
1. It leaves you extremely vulnerable to force powers, If you're flipping and flying all over the place you're going to have a hard time countering or even expecting a blast of force lightning coming towards your face. Techniques like the one kreia used to kill the three jedi masters could definitley be used against him. Look at the way maul pushed ob1 over the edge in tpm enough said.
2. while attaru is an offensive style, whenever we see someone defending with it they end up getting killed or almost killed, when rots obi used it in his fight with anakin when he was on the defensive he was barely surviving. We never see yoda on defense but if he was chances are he'd be in trouble.
3.battle pre-cog the exile had it in his fight with vrook and that was at less than half the level Revan was at, you can jump around and move as fast as you want but it doesn't help you if the person knows where you'll be going before you do which is the level Revan is at.
Even Kreia says that ti's weak defensively and she's just as wise as yoda.
-As for The dooku sidious fights sasee neither has battle pre-cog or a 6th of the power of Revan, comparing them would be like comparing A 9 year old with a yellow belt and a plastic sword to a samurai.
- Yoda's age is irrelevant, in those 900 years he did not learn more than Revan as he simply didn't have the sources, he did not fight more than Revan as there were practically no wars. His lightsaber technique was no where near as refined as Revans who'd practically perfected his own style through combat a style with no apparent flaws that took the strong points of everything he learned and blended them together, now compare this to attaru with it's above mentioned flaws.
-Revan will not show mercy in a fight with someone who wants to kill him, he doesn't have the constraints of the jedi order to keep him from killing who he wants, and as far as yoda's speed, speed is good but good technique could nullify speed, for example,
I play on a ball hockey team that is by far and a way the fastest team in the league, however we've been beat 7-0 by a team that almost didn't run at all, because they were better set up and they could read what we were doing and turn it against, we could run all we wanted to but because of their superior technique we ended up just running till we were tired where they barely broke a sweat. As for unpredictable Revan has fought many many attaru users before as well as also having battle pre-cog and dueling experience so he could predict yoda's movements.
-Once again plagues you make me laugh, Revan had the full jedi archives on dantooine, malachor v and korriban so two planets and the jedi archive, he learned much faster then everyone else so he was able to aquire all the information he possibly could, as for him using his own form, in the cut scene where bastila storms his flagship he uses a form that isn't one of the 7 he also is known for not using any one form. He had much more to learn from and learned in weeks wht others can't in years, lets look at the math, if it takes him two weeks to learn what someone else can't in two years thats a 1/52 ration, now apply that to10-15 years worth of knowledge so that would be 52 time 15 which is a lot , I'm too lazy to do the math so he was more than capable of learning all he could, like it says in KOTOR II from all his sources which had much more information then yodas, then he actually practised it against opponents that wanted to kill him. Vrook was a complete master of this form, KOTOR II didn't show it well but if you look at the information about him, He was a MASTER of form 4 a complete master just like yoda.
- As for Revans battle pre-cog, The greatest echani master could forsee his opponents moves even before he thought of doing them, Revan's ability was much much much better then the echani's so he'd be able to know what yoda was going to do before it happened so he'd use his technique to keep from exerting himself while yoda tires himself out jumping around like a 6 year old on speed.
-Last two points as this post is getting long, Revan had many artifacts that increased his power, never mind that he was the heart of the force so he was very in touch with the force and drew on the force for strength as much as any force user, in fact because of his natural ability it was that much easier for him just like it was for anakin. His artifacts and even his robs made him much more powerful in the force adding to his already immense amount of power.
-Revan was also a genius to the point where it was crazy, he may not be totally rutheless but if showing mercy would hinder him in achieving his goals then he sure as hell wouldn't be merciful. He was brilliant to the point where he would be able to analyze yoda's style and abilities and gain the upper hand, he would strategize and orchestrate the fight manipulating yoda's weaknesses waiting for him to make a fatal mistake and then making him pay for it.
-So in the end we're left with Revan being able to exploit weaknesses in yoda's lightsaber form, knowing where he'll be before he gets there armed with a better arsenal of force techniques some of which could only be learned from the places he found them places yoda's never been to. Now add his artifacts to boost his power and his own superior lightsaber form as well as much more combat experience even agaisnt attaru users which will give him the ability to see and exploit yoda's waknesses. Better with a saber, more force power, the ability to see things before they happen...well that pretty much says it all.
Originally posted by Nai Fohl
That does not realy mean he wants to kill him. Maybe we should take a closer looks on Yodas motives or opportunities:a) Killing Sidious:
What would that have done ? Sidious said in front of the Senate that the Jedi wanted to take over the Republic. He said that they tried to assasinate him. So who would believe Yoda that Sidious was a Sith if you assume Yoda would have killed Sidious ? Nobody. They would have taken that action as a proof of what Sidious said to them and lose every confidence in the Jedi and in the Republic.b) Capturing Sidious or just defeat him without killing:
Better option since that would have been the proof that the Jedi didn't want to kill Sidious thereby proving all his accusations wrong. That would leave Sidious no way to remain leader of the Republic or the Empire since all that people would see he murdered all the Jedi WITHOUT any reason.c) Tactical reason:
Imagine Yoda doesn't want to kill or defeat Sidious...just keep him busy until Obi-Wan finished Anakin. See...oppinion a and b don't gave Yoda the quarantee that things would be better after it. Killing Sidious apprentice and leaving him with not enough time to train another one - all of Sidious plans would have failed in the end because there would be no Sith left to rule the galaxy.
That is also another explanation why Yoda thinks he has failed. He did not manage to keep Sidious busy until Obi-Wan finished Anakin so that Sidious could travel to Mustafar and save his new apprentice.
The tacitcal reason just does not make sense, also when Yoda left he didn't know how the fight on Mustafar would go, and if he really thought Sidious could come in time to save Anakin and all he wanted to was let Anakin die then he would have gone there. (he couldn't have known about the lava surviving thing, so he would have thought that Sidious would kill Obi) Besides why allow people to suffer when you can stop it?
The capturing thing is nice and all but if he was so superior would he run and not kill Sidious instead of killing him anyway. Again it might hurt the Jedi Order but the Republic would not suffer and that had to be Yoda his main goal.
I don't understand that logic. I don't want get you angry or something like that I simply don't get it. Yoda is a very patient fighter using a very agressive lightsaber form which he mastered. I don't think that he is the first one that will make a mistake here. That has nothing to do with stupidity more with impatience. And Revan is no one that has a huge amount of patience I think - all his actions display that.
No, it doesn't mean Yoda would make a mistake faster, it means that Revan by using more force attacks could hurt Yoda more then the other way around. Revan his attacks were incredibly powerful more powerful then those of Sidious IMO and Yoda did have a hard time for a few seconds against Sidious. He threw it back but we don't know if he could do that against Revan and even if he could there is more then just force lightning.
When he ever needed to use all his powers ?
VS Sidious - he never had a doubt that he would win that he just was surprised badly and in that moment he had no opportunity anymore to use all of his powers.
VS Dooku - same thing and that fight was already over before Dooku throw that massive thing on Obi-Wan and Anakin
Well if he didn't use all his powers becuase he didn't think it was necessary he was an idiot. He could have easily stopped Sidious then and he was trying in that fight and he could have defeated Dooku fast and he could have taken everything he needed. Dooku himself said he didn't run because Yoda was to powerful but because of the Death Star plans, if Yoda had the chance he should have taken it. Not think he could do it with less then his all, if thats really the case he isn't as wise as you claim.
I don't think Yoda is very arrogant. He just knows what he can do. And if he has no doubt that people like Dooku (probably best lightsaber duelist at that time) or Sidious (who killed three Jedi Masters in a few seconds) can't defeat him he has to be more powerful than many people think.
Maul thought he could defeat Obi Wan too. Things like that hurt like hell, if Yoda trully believed that then he was a fool. He should have used his all it could have prevented a lot of suffering and there is absolutely nothing to suggest that Yoda would willingly let a chance exist of people suffering when he could have stopped it in seconds.
Well. Do you actualy know what things were in the archieves of the Jedi Order when Yoda had access to them ? The databank of starwars.com (see the article about Yaddle) just states there was an "impressive collection of holocrons, scrolls and tomes". Jedi ? Sith ? We don't know. So we can't tell for sure if Revan had that much more knowledge available for him.
Its pretty clear that Revan had more accurate and recent descriptions of a lot of things that happened and about ancient techniques, no real possiblity of debating about that. Doesn't mean Yoda couldn't have had, just not as much as Revan did.
Only thing that we can say is that Yoda had more access to Jedi teachings (or light side force powers) and Revan had more to the dark side ones. Dark side and light side are considered to be equal in power - so still Revan had not the time to learn nearly everything about the dark side while Yoda had the time to learn almost everything about the light side and enough about the dark side that some of the dark side powers are no surprise for him (force lightning).
Yoda had more acces to the lightside? Bullshit he had longer to study it. And he might have known a few things about the Dark side but definitly not as much as Revan, who also studied a lot of the light side. And there are other techniques then lightning.
When it comes to "knowledge" I have to say Yoda knows more than Revan does. And still wisdom is superior to sheer knowledge and Yoda had tons of wisdom compared to Revan.
Wisdom? I don't know that doesn't grow with age, well for some it does but Revan didn't really seem ignorant. He may have not have had as much time to study, but reading the same book a dozen times only makes you know that book. Reading a hundred books may not make you know that 1 inside out but it still makes you know more. And Revan did have more knowledge to learn from.
Btw: On that wisdom thing, if somethings about Yoda using his full power or not that you suggested earlier on then Yoda is neither wise nor smart he's just an idiotic monkey.
There is no defence against both of this abilities. Now imagine Yoda could use them against Revan. Do you give Revan without forcepowers or rapidly slowed body functions (pulse, breathing) a chance versus Yoda ? I don't.
Erasing somebody's mind takes time to do, if it didn't Yoda would have done it against a few people already (Dooku, Sidious) but he didn't. Slowing somebody's body functions who'se to say Revan couldn't do that? And when have we ever seen Yoda do that? And who knows maybe Revan could block it.
Ok. It would aid Revan to a certain degree but it doesn't make him invincible and it won't give him an advantage to Yoda when it comes to lightsaber combat.
It would give him a greater advantage against Yoda then against anybody else and it might help decide this fight. Maybe it won't make all the difference but it will help.
Originally posted by Revan Souer
Revan was able to use both siges of the force which would give him a huge advantage. He had Masters this dualing ability and had thr pre cog ability. To be totally honest Revan wouldn't even fight if he didn't think or know he could win so if they fought Revan would win. He'd ues any tactic however untastful, these advantage would be enough
Well...let me just try it in a metaphorical way.
Imagine someone advices you to tear down a massive wall by hitting it with your fist. You would probably hurt yourself but not do any damage to the wall. Would you know go back to the wall hitting it with both hands hoping you can do some damage with more power ? I don't think so.
And now do it like that:
you = Revan
hands = light / dark side
wall = Yoda
Even assuming Revan could hit Yoda with every ability Yoda doesn't know about for one time. That won't be enough for Yoda and still I think we have to say Yoda is the superior swordsman here.
And sorry...that "when Revan can't win he won't fight so when they fight he will win"- argument is crap. With that reason I could also say Revan would run away because he can't win and he doesn't fight when he can't win.
As for 900 years experience, where did that get him, how does it help he's spent 900 years inside of a jedi temple pretty much he didn't even spar with other jedi! spending 900 years studing, meditating and teaching some younglings how to keep from stabbing themselves with a lightsaber really doesn't show much, 900 years inside a jedi temple won't help much in terms of real combat. He hasn't experienced anything revan hasn't as he spends his time inside of the temple, and any knowledge yoda could have gained any knowledge that revan doesn't have so that's pretty much useless. As for the ability to slow you opponent Revan could do it in kotor and better and that was at less then half his power.
Originally posted by Nai Fohl
Actually Revan did not have the Jedi archive. The main archive of the order was located on Ossus and the planet was destroyed in the Great Sith War 33 years before the Mandalorian Wars started. Basically he had what was left from that archives. And I guess that would not be as much as the ROTS Jedi might have gathered in 3,900 years from the Jedi Civil war to their time.And we are not talking about decades here...we are talking about centuries. So even if you assume that Revan could learn 10 times as fast as normal force users (so 1 year for the knowledge other people need 10 years for) Yoda is still superior.
Like I said in my other post. Reading the same book a thousand times makes you know that book. Reading twenty books once, makes you know twenty books. Generally the one that knows 20 books is going to be smarter unless of course its about the one book.
(Both books in this situation are equally important)
How can you tell what Yoda could defend himself against ? His force defence (according to some sourcebooks) is only matched by the force defence of Ragnos and Ragnos was able to survive people that were more powerful than Revan. I don't think there is anything that could get past Yodas force defences no matter if he actualy knows it or not. We could do some long time discussion about how force defence actually works...but hell...Yoda could throw force lightning back to people or just "absorb" that things. What do you think Revan could throw at him ?
Debatable but you have a good point here, however I seriously doubt he could block everything with his force defence, could he absorb something that is meant to absorb the force from somebody could he block something that will drain his life? Maybe maybe not, but even if he can then Revan can still throw shit at him, Yoda will have to stop it and he can't throw it back right away in the time he's using to take control over it Revan could throw another attack at him and hit him.
Well...you can argue that but I don't think a 30 or 40 year old man can be as patient as a 900 year old creature. Yoda waited 20 years for Luke on Dagobah. Could you imagine Revan sitting around somewhere for 20 years just waiting for a person to show up ?
Probably not that patient now, but still patient. You can't lead wars if you are not patient. You can't command troops if you don't study th battlefield. Revan was patient besides this fight wouldn't last twenty years now would it? I'm sure Revan could just stand there for hours waiting for Yoda to make a move.
And Ataru as Yoda uses it has no flaws. That is the probleme here. A "normal" guy using that technique might be weak in defending. Compare somebody like Qui-Gon with Yoda. Yoda is just too fast to get hit (as I mentioned: Even without a lightsaber in his hands he can avoid to get hit when 3 Jedi Council Members try to hit him). We saw guys like Dooku (more than 60 years experience in lightsaber combat - and master of the duelist form) lose to Yoda in less than a minute. I don't want to say that Revan is not a great fighter but I for myself even won't give Tulak Hord himself a chance vs Yoda in lightsaber combat. Only because Yoda has all advantages on his side:- he is obviously faster than anyone else
- he had more training with that weapon than anyone else (even if it just was against other Jedi for practice)
- he is small and therefore pretty hard to hit (even without his speed)
- he is completely unpredictable in his movements
Still people faced him and blocked his attacks and people still attacked back which he blocked meaning his speed does not help him all the time. And according to Dooku himself he only ran because of the Death Star not because Yoda was more powerful. He was probably run but at that time he didn't consider himself to be beaten.
Well...on force knowledge...take a look at the things I mentioned above,
Read the book thing I posted...
also on lightsaber combat.
For battle pre-cog: Even if that technique would be flawless (and it isn't as we saw many powerful Echani die) there is still the question if Revan would be fast enough to defend against Yoda. And even if you think he is: Who do you think would get tired first ? Yoda who receives every power he has directly from the force or Revan who (partly) relies on his physical strength ?
First off... Battle precog only makes people lose when their opponents are superior or have no real way of fighting. Often at times a child can kill a great swordsman when an average one can not just because the child will not fight in a known way. Revan his way is probably not known to Yoda. The Echani died because they were either impossibly outnumbered didn't master the skill as well as some of the more powerful one's or were just not as powerful
And according to Kreia looking at Revan was like looking into the heart of the force itself, he drew his power from the force every Jedi does. Physical power only helps, however little it may be.
And I don't think Revan is realy ruthless. He acts according to his goals. Guys like Mace or Yoda in his situation might have acted the same way like Revan did without using the dark side of course. I never had a picture of Revan being a ruthless and brutal Sith Lord. He has higher goals that don't match the Jedi philosophy. I guess in TPM - ROTS times he would have been one of the "lost twenty" (still respected by the Jedi without being part of the order) and not a Sith. [/B]
I agree with you on this, he doesn't seem all that dark to me. Just did what he believed was necessary Kreia seems to think the same thing. Revan drew from the Dark Side because it gave him the power he needed to do what he wanted to do. He would have done the same on LS, and thats also why I think the DS ending is the right one. If he needed the power of the Dark Side or needed to use the Sith as an army then he would have no reason to join the LS again.
Originally posted by Nai Fohl
Well...let me just try it in a metaphorical way.Imagine someone advices you to tear down a massive wall by hitting it with your fist. You would probably hurt yourself but not do any damage to the wall. Would you know go back to the wall hitting it with both hands hoping you can do some damage with more power ? I don't think so.
And now do it like that:
you = Revan
hands = light / dark side
wall = YodaEven assuming Revan could hit Yoda with every ability Yoda doesn't know about for one time. That won't be enough for Yoda and still I think we have to say Yoda is the superior swordsman here.
And sorry...that "when Revan can't win he won't fight so when they fight he will win"- argument is crap. With that reason I could also say Revan would run away because he can't win and he doesn't fight when he can't win.
I have to agree with your last paragraph nai fohl that arguement is crap, but as for force powers, it would be more fair to compare light/darkside to a sledge hammer or c4 as one blast of force lightning sent ytoda flyin across the room, multiple attacks from extremly damaging force powers like the ones revan has would kill yoda fairly quickly, and revan's still a superior swordsman read my uber long post for a better explanation. also yoda wouldn't know revans form as it's exclusive to revan, unlike attaru which has been ued by tens of thousands of jedi's across history.
Originally posted by Nai Fohl
Well...let me just try it in a metaphorical way.Imagine someone advices you to tear down a massive wall by hitting it with your fist. You would probably hurt yourself but not do any damage to the wall. Would you know go back to the wall hitting it with both hands hoping you can do some damage with more power ? I don't think so.
And now do it like that:
you = Revan
hands = light / dark side
wall = YodaEven assuming Revan could hit Yoda with every ability Yoda doesn't know about for one time. That won't be enough for Yoda and still I think we have to say Yoda is the superior swordsman here.
And sorry...that "when Revan can't win he won't fight so when they fight he will win"- argument is crap. With that reason I could also say Revan would run away because he can't win and he doesn't fight when he can't win.
I agree with the last thing you said. Saying Revan won't fight unless he can win is just bullshit. Especially in a VS thread. It might have been true in Kotor actually I believe it is true, but that really doesn't count here now does it?
Also Yoda isn't a real wall, and walls can still be broken down. Maybe not with your fists but there are other ways
Originally posted by Nai Fohl
Can we realy say he is not superior to Sidious ?
Yoda is limited to a certain degree by the rules of the Jedi Order. We don't know, what he wants to do with Sidious. Did he wanted Sidious dead or just defeated ? That is a question because it is harder to capture somebody like Sidious than simply kill him when that person wants to kill you. Same with Dooku.Well...
Yoda can't get hit by three Jedi Council Members who try to do so. He can't get hit by Dooku. He can't get hit by Sidious. I don't think that Revan would be able to do that. If you assume that Yoda can't hit Revan this would be a never ending fight.And again there is the question if Yoda ever did come close to use his full power against any opponent. He is a very passive fighter and force user. There are only two "agressive" actions from him both in ROTS:
First when he enteres Sidious room and smashed that two red guards of Sidious against the wall (and they were down immediatly) and the second when he threw Sidious across the entire room. And both things didn't cost him much energy. For me that are the two situations where we can see what Yoda probably COULD do and I think he can do much more "powerful" things if he wants or needs to do so.I don't want to argue that Revan learned much or at least everything that he needed. I just say you can't learn as many things in 30 years as another guy can learn in 900 years. And even the Jedi had knowledge that only a few people (not even all council members) had access to and therefore Revan might never knew it.
For example morichro (ancient Jedi technique that rapidly slows down the body functions of target beings) or the technique to cut peoples connection to the force (that what the Council wants to use on the Exile in KOTOR 2). You can assume that Yoda had access to that knowledge and would use it if he realy has to.
Oh...does it realy help Revan a lot ?
As far as I could get it from everything I heard while playing the KOTOR games that gift is no supernatural power it is just the ability to predict an opponents moves that actualy comes from fighting experience. Yes...I know their were people that could see the actions taken in whole battles and Revan could even see oversee whole wars but that is - in my oppinion - more because of his tactical genius.Do you realy think that would aid Revan that well in a duel with somebody that uses very uncommon and unpredictable moves like Yoda does ? Still the Echani masters died and you can see the Exile defeating the 5 Echani handmaidens at once (training on Telos). So that thing is not that impressive and useful otherwise that things happened have to be considered being impossible, since the masters of that technique should not get defeated or killed.
I respect Nai Fohl for giving reasons to his opinion and not being like Darth Mantis saying: Anything Revan can do, Yoda can to and he is way stronger than Revan.
1. I'm pretty sure he wanted Sidious dead. "Destroy the Sith, we must."
2. Traya kills 3 jedi masters at the same time with one use of the Force. Revan is stronger than Traya. You do the math.
3. I think he used his full power against Sidious, he is struggling with that lightning. And if he wasn't using his full power he would've simply went back up, used his full power and killed him.
4. Revan only had 30 years as opposed to Yoda's 900, but Revan had far more to learn. He learned everything he could about the Jedi and Sith, plundering several worlds, gaining artifacts, etc. Plus Revan's time was a golden age for both Jedi and Sith, most of the stuff he learned was later destroyed so Yoda could'nt have learned some of it. The Jedi academy was destroyed by Malak, Malachor V was decimated from the mass shadow generator and then destroyed if the Exile went light, and even the tombs on Korriban were blocked off.
5. Revan's battle pre-cog is far superior to normal Echani's. Echani warriors are far stronger than normal humans, about as strong as Mandalorians because of their pre-cog and very few were strong enough to predict battles, only a couple were good enough to predict wars. Revan is the only non-Echani we know of that was good enough to predict wars, add that to his enormous power already and he's nearly unstoppable.
Originally posted by Darth Plagues
Nothing that Darth Revan has done has proven that he would beat Yoda in a battle. Yoda could beat Malak...People have praised Revan of how many Dark Jedi/Sith/Jedi he's killed. But Yoda could do the same thing and has more knowledge of the Force. I don't think he's trained for 850 years for nothing...
CAN SOMEBODY SHUT PLAGUES UP? You are constantly saying "Prove that Revan can do this, prove this and that." So I will say: Prove that Yoda can beat Revan without question. Prove that Ragnos is stronger than anyone like you say and how he could beat anyone even though he's never fought for sure, save for one person that he didn't even kill. Prove that HE can blow up stars.
There is no proof to who would win and a lot of other things, but we've got about 5 times the reasons why Lord Revan would beat Yoda so your "proof" would be pointing toward Revan.
Originally posted by Fishy
Just ignore him, concentrate on Nai Fohl he brings some good arguments, okay he's wrong 😛 but he still puts up a good fight
You're probably right. I'm just sick of him calling anyone who likes Revan a fanboy, even though he thinks Marka would crush anyone like a tin can, saying Revan's overrated, continually saying "prove it" and not giving one good reason we haven't already answered to the forum.
I've been very patient with you plagues up until now, I've merely shown your reasons to be useless and you to be annoying and incompetent, now I'm a little angry though so I will say this in the politest way I can, Plagues you don't know jack, you can't prove jack your posts don't help your cause they merely make you look like an idiot whose trying to criticize something even though he's wrong, in every thread I'm in with you the all you do is make pitiful attempts to bash Revan and the closest you've come to posting reasons is, "I agree with everything that other guy said". Me, Emperor Revan and Fishy have many many more reasons backing Revan and you still continue to be annoying despite the fact you yourself have posted no proof and you actually have no reasons once so ever that yoda is better except that he's older and that he's fast which leads anyone with half a brain (which is half a brain more then you have), left with a conclusion that you're merely a biased Revan bashing lightside fanboy of a n00b who wastes the very air you breathe.
That being said good posting nai fohl it's nice to have someone competent to debate with you're a credit to this forum.