Originally posted by Emperor Revan
2. Yoda thinks the Dark Side is not stronger, Sidious does. We can't tell from these two but we can tell from Lucas because he says the dark side is stronger.
No. The dark side isn't stronger. There is a balance between light side and dark side. The dark side is faster (that is what Yoda says about it in ESB). So...a 40 year old Sith Lord could hold more raw power in his hands than a 40 year old Jedi Master can because the dark side develops his own potential faster.
But still we can't tell if a 900 year old being like Yoda can't be as strong as a 30,40 or 80 year old Sith.
I’m just saying that’s not proof that either could beat anyone else. Of course Kreia’s quote of Revan is just an opinion but she was his master and knew him very well, not to mention she’s rarely wrong. As for your warning, what are you going to do? Tell the mods that I called you foolish because you said Yoda in his prime is undefeatable? I do respect you for being nice though.
Kreia also said that the Exile was her best student. Does that mean the Exile is more powerful than Revan ? Probably not. And yes...I know most people in the KOTOR games run around and always say Revan was the best. Well...people in the movies always run around and say Yoda is the best.
Still it's hard to compare there archievements. In the game you have no opponents that come even close to Dooku, Sidious, Mace, Yoda and so on. Imagine a Sith Academy filled with hundrets of Mauls or Dookus instead of Dark Jedi or Sidious clones instead of Sith Lords - you won't probably be able to complete the game.
And in the films every lightsaber hit and every blaster hit is deadly or at least injuring you bad (cutting some limbs off...and so on) and it's not in the games.
You have to keep that in mind when you compare the game characters to movie characters or "normal" EU characters. Kyle Katarn for example killed thousands of stormtroopers and other people and defeated 7 Dark Jedi + mastered some force powers WITHOUT ever been trained with the force or a lightsaber. But still I won't say he is as powerful as Yoda, Luke, Exar Kun, Revan or somebody like that.
There is basically no evidence that the things Revan did couldn't have been done by somebody else for example somebody like Yoda or Luke or something like that.
4. As for Yoda in his prime, we don’t know what that is so we really have to go off of the movies. I personally think Lord Revan is more powerful than Sidious with the Force and could simply overwhelm Yoda with Force Lightning since Yoda was barely holding Sidious’ lightning back. If Yoda at his prime is younger then his Force resistance would surely be weaker and Revan would still kill him with lightning.
Where do people always get the oppinion from that Yoda had trouble with holding back Sidious lightning. He had not. He threw it back easily...he just got in trouble when all the force energy between Sidious and him exploded but not because of that energy, no simply because of his size.
See...according to some sourcebooks Yodas force defence is 2 or 3 times as good as NJO Lukes force defence is. When you want to explain it with a higher age a 400 year old Yoda would still posess a better / equal force defence compared to NJO Luke. Would you say Revan could simply destroy NJO Luke with the force ? Probably not.
And for Sidious force powers. He might have just as much force potential as Yoda had...still the energies he unleashed ravaged his mortal frame. When you want to say that Revan could throw more energy at Yoda you have to say that Revan would need a greater force potential to channel more energies. And Revan is no Anakin Skywalker. Anakin was 200 % Yoda / Sidious before the battle with Obi-Wan. Luke is (maximum) 75 % Anakin or 150 % Yoda/Sidious. If you say Revan is equal to Luke (he simply can't be better) he would be able to channel 1.5 x Sidious force lightning in power. Too much for Yodas force defence ? I doubt it.
So we would be back at a lightsaber duel. We saw Dooku one of the most powerful Jedi and greatest duelists the order had in the last hundrets of years totaly pushed into defence while fighting Yoda. We saw Sidious - somebody that killed 3 Jedi Masters with his lightsaber in seconds - and he's not getting even close to hit Yoda. Yoda even killed a Dark Jedi coming to Dagobah WITHOUT using a lightsaber (he had none). Estimating Yoda would be 400 years old (something like 40 years for a human) he will even be more faster than in the movies.
On the other side we have Revan using a special lightsaber form (possibly the one Tulak Hord used) and having battle pre-cog (and for the last time: THAT is guessing what you opponent will do next...it comes from experience. That's what the handmaiden said about it. It's tactical prediction and no "looking into the future and see what your opponent will do next" - otherwise none of the Echani masters would ever have been killed).
I doubt Revan would simply kill Yoda. See...I don't even think that people like NJO Luke or Tulak Hord himself could kill Yoda in a lightsaber duel saying Yoda is "at his peak" - and I doubt that "at his peak" actualy means "Yoda in the movies". For force control...maybe...for lightsaber fighting, no way.
Originally posted by Nai Fohl
No. The dark side isn't stronger. There is a balance between light side and dark side. The dark side is faster (that is what Yoda says about it in ESB). So...a 40 year old Sith Lord could hold more raw power in his hands than a 40 year old Jedi Master can because the dark side develops his own potential faster.
But still we can't tell if a 900 year old being like Yoda can't be as strong as a 30,40 or 80 year old Sith.Kreia also said that the Exile was her best student. Does that mean the Exile is more powerful than Revan ? Probably not. And yes...I know most people in the KOTOR games run around and always say Revan was the best. Well...people in the movies always run around and say Yoda is the best.
Still it's hard to compare there archievements. In the game you have no opponents that come even close to Dooku, Sidious, Mace, Yoda and so on. Imagine a Sith Academy filled with hundrets of Mauls or Dookus instead of Dark Jedi or Sidious clones instead of Sith Lords - you won't probably be able to complete the game.
And in the films every lightsaber hit and every blaster hit is deadly or at least injuring you bad (cutting some limbs off...and so on) and it's not in the games.You have to keep that in mind when you compare the game characters to movie characters or "normal" EU characters. Kyle Katarn for example killed thousands of stormtroopers and other people and defeated 7 Dark Jedi + mastered some force powers WITHOUT ever been trained with the force or a lightsaber. But still I won't say he is as powerful as Yoda, Luke, Exar Kun, Revan or somebody like that.
There is basically no evidence that the things Revan did couldn't have been done by somebody else for example somebody like Yoda or Luke or something like that.
Where do people always get the oppinion from that Yoda had trouble with holding back Sidious lightning. He had not. He threw it back easily...he just got in trouble when all the force energy between Sidious and him exploded but not because of that energy, no simply because of his size.
See...according to some sourcebooks Yodas force defence is 2 or 3 times as good as NJO Lukes force defence is. When you want to explain it with a higher age a 400 year old Yoda would still posess a better / equal force defence compared to NJO Luke. Would you say Revan could simply destroy NJO Luke with the force ? Probably not.
And for Sidious force powers. He might have just as much force potential as Yoda had...still the energies he unleashed ravaged his mortal frame. When you want to say that Revan could throw more energy at Yoda you have to say that Revan would need a greater force potential to channel more energies. And Revan is no Anakin Skywalker. Anakin was 200 % Yoda / Sidious before the battle with Obi-Wan. Luke is (maximum) 75 % Anakin or 150 % Yoda/Sidious. If you say Revan is equal to Luke (he simply can't be better) he would be able to channel 1.5 x Sidious force lightning in power. Too much for Yodas force defence ? I doubt it.
So we would be back at a lightsaber duel. We saw Dooku one of the most powerful Jedi and greatest duelists the order had in the last hundrets of years totaly pushed into defence while fighting Yoda. We saw Sidious - somebody that killed 3 Jedi Masters with his lightsaber in seconds - and he's not getting even close to hit Yoda. Yoda even killed a Dark Jedi coming to Dagobah WITHOUT using a lightsaber (he had none). Estimating Yoda would be 400 years old (something like 40 years for a human) he will even be more faster than in the movies.
On the other side we have Revan using a special lightsaber form (possibly the one Tulak Hord used) and having battle pre-cog (and for the last time: THAT is guessing what you opponent will do next...it comes from experience. That's what the handmaiden said about it. It's tactical prediction and no "looking into the future and see what your opponent will do next" - otherwise none of the Echani masters would ever have been killed).
I doubt Revan would simply kill Yoda. See...I don't even think that people like NJO Luke or Tulak Hord himself could kill Yoda in a lightsaber duel saying Yoda is "at his peak" - and I doubt that "at his peak" actualy means "Yoda in the movies". For force control...maybe...for lightsaber fighting, no way.
How many times do I have to tell you people. Malak is probably just a little bit weaker than Mace, and Darth Bandon is probably the same level of skill as Kit Fisto or someone like that. Revan did fight worthy opponents, and he killed them without the use of his overall ability.
Nai Fohl: Here's my response, not necessarily in order.
1. The dark side IS stronger. Lucas says so. Exactly like that, he says that it will ultimately corrupt you or something like that too, but if he says it, then it's fact.
2. Kreia is telling the Exile he's powerful, she may have reasons to make him feel better, or exaggerate. When she's talking about Revan, she's not talking to Revan so there's no reason for her to lie or exaggerate at all. Now, I'll admit that wasn't a very good argument I just said, but when Kreia knew Revan, he was still in the Jedi Order and not even a master yet. His power probably tripled or more since then. Notice that Sion (extremely arrogant) says I am her strongest student since Revan. Even he knows Lord Revan could beat him.
3. You're underestimating Darth Malak. He is extremely powerful and probably stronger than Dooku. Revan fought his way through the Star Forge, killing dozens of Sith apprentices, Dark Jedi, and deadly assassin droids before Revan beat Darth Malak twice in a row and then got stronger since then. Bandon, like HimoKun said, is probably around Kit Fisto's level. And not everything is based on who they fought. If you've just seen Episode V, you're not going to say Han Solo would beat Yoda because he's killed a stormtrooper and Yoda hasn't, even though he lifted an X-wing with ease.
4. There's no evidence that Revan couldn't do any of the things Yoda or Luke did either.
5. Why do I think Yoda had trouble blocking Sidious' Force lightning? Because when he first used it, it threw him into the wall. The second time, you can clearly see Yoda straining to hold it back. If the power was multiplied by 1.5 then I strongly doubt Yoda could still hold it back, let alone reflect it back at Revan.
Next, what makes you think Revan's potential is only at Luke's level? Because he's a game character and not in the movies? Kreia said about Revan (when he's a padawan) that Revan was power, staring at him was like staring into the heart of the Force. Zhar says his potential is unlimited (probably an exaggeration but still...), a Jedi mistakes Revan (who can't use the Force at all) for a Jedi padawan. Now we obviously have no way to compare potential but there's nothing to say his potential is lower or equal with Luke's.
6. Even if it was a lightsaber duel I think Lord Revan would win. He killed two masters (I call Jolee and Juhani masters, yes) at the same time with ease, before he got stronger. And I do think Yoda was having some trouble against Sidious in the duel. Revan's defeated everyone he's ever faced, he's killed hundreds of mandalorians, Mandalore, the strongest Echani, hundreds of Jedi and hundreds of Dark Jedi and Sith apprentices. the highest level of battle pre-cog, Tulak's holocron, years of experience fighting Force users, and his own raw power would defeat Yoda IMO.
7. Don't bring rpg stats or anything like it in here, otherwise the characters from KOTOR 1 and 2 would dominate so easily it wouldn't even be a competition.
Lets say the darkside is stronger. That doesn't mean Revan will win.
About Malak. I do thing he is strong but to compare him to people like Mace and Yoda or Sidious makes me laugh. Maybe because we don't respect him, but he is strong regardless.
Now about Revan's potential and Yoda's potential and force defence and all the stats. IMO Yoda's force defence is greater than any other force users attack no matter what time period their from. When you have that much time to study the force you know how to get it to do what you want it to do. Nobody's force defence equals Yoda's and IMO nobody's force lightning equals Sidious. Nai fohl said it and I've said it and others have said that his lightning rocked his mortal body. If thats not raw power I don't know what is. Revan might beat Sids in everything else but nobody's lightning can beat Sids IMO, and Yoda reflected it. The only reason Sids hit Yoda the first time was because he was caught off guard, you can tell by his expression. The lightning didn't even hurt him that much because he recovered and knocked Sids into his chair. Yoda was on the ground baiting Sids, you can tell because his ear wobbles and he moves right before Sids unleashes more lightning, but enough about Yoda and Sids.
Yoda at 700 I think still has a greater force defence than any other SW character, if he can deflect lightning at its strongest power(Sids lightning), and make it look easy. Then he can surely block anything Revan throws at him. "Now somebody will say but Kreia said this and Kreia said that."
Kreia was talking about Nihilius's power, not anything Revan could do. About Revan "being the heart of the force." In KOTOR 2 we learn that Revan and the Exile gain power by draining other people's force and not letting their victims become one with the force, kind of like what Malak was doing on the Star Forge. If Revan can do this then he can potential destroy the force itself. That's where I think Kreia is getting at that quote. Kreia hates the force she even admits it, and Revan and the Exile can destroy it therefore they are the greatest people in the universe to her. Her mission was to destroy the force and they could do it, for the latter part of her life she was searching for that power and they possessed it and she worshipped them for it.
Originally posted by Apex512
Lets say the darkside is stronger. That doesn't mean Revan will win.About Malak. I do thing he is strong but to compare him to people like Mace and Yoda or Sidious makes me laugh. Maybe because we don't respect him, but he is strong regardless.
Now about Revan's potential and Yoda's potential and force defence and all the stats. IMO Yoda's force defence is greater than any other force users attack no matter what time period their from. When you have that much time to study the force you know how to get it to do what you want it to do. Nobody's force defence equals Yoda's and IMO nobody's force lightning equals Sidious. Nai fohl said it and I've said it and others have said that his lightning rocked his mortal body. If thats not raw power I don't know what is. Revan might beat Sids in everything else but nobody's lightning can beat Sids IMO, and Yoda reflected it. The only reason Sids hit Yoda the first time was because he was caught off guard, you can tell by his expression. The lightning didn't even hurt him that much because he recovered and knocked Sids into his chair. Yoda was on the ground baiting Sids, you can tell because his ear wobbles and he moves right before Sids unleashes more lightning, but enough about Yoda and Sids.
Yoda at 700 I think still has a greater force defence than any other SW character, if he can deflect lightning at its strongest power(Sids lightning), and make it look easy. Then he can surely block anything Revan throws at him. "Now somebody will say but Kreia said this and Kreia said that."
Kreia was talking about Nihilius's power, not anything Revan could do. About Revan "being the heart of the force." In KOTOR 2 we learn that Revan and the Exile gain power by draining other people's force and not letting their victims become one with the force, kind of like what Malak was doing on the Star Forge. If Revan can do this then he can potential destroy the force itself. That's where I think Kreia is getting at that quote. Kreia hates the force she even admits it, and Revan and the Exile can destroy it therefore they are the greatest people in the universe to her. Her mission was to destroy the force and they could do it, for the latter part of her life she was searching for that power and they possessed it and she worshipped them for it.
Dude Revan did not gain power by draining other people's Force. The Exile did but not Revan and Kreia did not worship Revan or the Exile she only saw the Exile as a tool to carry out her plans. When Kreia compaires Revan to "The Heart of The Force" she is commenting on his natural strength in the force and it really does not make sense to call Revan "The Heart of The Force" if he gains power by siphoning it away.
And who says that Sidious had the best force lightning? What crap is that? Show me proof that Sidious had the best force lightning before you go around telling everybody that he does. And Malak was second to Revan in power so he would mach up with people like Mace and Sidious if not Yoda.
I said in my opinion Sidious had the best force lightning, IMO. The thing about Revan was just an idea. I was just saying look at it in a different way, instead of him being all powerful. Malak was strong but Yoda would handle him, and Mace would also beat him. By "heart of the force" she could have meant he was the center of the force, in him lay the power to destroy the force, and the Exile as well. Heart also means center in some ways. for example Kansas is in the heart of the U.S.
Originally posted by Apex512
I said in my opinion Sidious had the best force lightning, IMO. The thing about Revan was just an idea. I was just saying look at it in a different way, instead of him being all powerful. Malak was strong but Yoda would handle him, and Mace would also beat him. By "heart of the force" she could have meant he was the center of the force, in him lay the power to destroy the force, and the Exile as well. Heart also means center in some ways. for example Kansas is in the heart of the U.S.
No, She was saying that when she looked into the Exile eyes that she saw the end of the force and when she looked into the eyes of Revan, she saw the force flowing through him very well. And she doesn't mean the center. The heart is the most important part of the place- Kansas is not the heart of the US as Kreia was putting it. Think of Revan as being the West Coast, or the Midwest, where we have the majority of manufacturing and trade.
Originally posted by Emperor Revan
1. The dark side IS stronger. Lucas says so. Exactly like that, he says that it will ultimately corrupt you or something like that too, but if he says it, then it's fact.
Still the light side always wins and there has to be some balance between light and dark because otherwise the galaxy would be dominated by the dark side. Obviously that is not the case. What I said was basically the last statement on that point I heared from Lucas himself: The dark side seems to be stronger because it gives the "user" more power with less time, training and so on needed.
3. You're underestimating Darth Malak. He is extremely powerful and probably stronger than Dooku. Revan fought his way through the Star Forge, killing dozens of Sith apprentices, Dark Jedi, and deadly assassin droids before Revan beat Darth Malak twice in a row and then got stronger since then. Bandon, like HimoKun said, is probably around Kit Fisto's level. And not everything is based on who they fought. If you've just seen Episode V, you're not going to say Han Solo would beat Yoda because he's killed a stormtrooper and Yoda hasn't, even though he lifted an X-wing with ease.
Well...as far as I see the Revan supporters always base their oppinion on who Revan had fought. He killed X, he killed Y so he is probably able to kill Z (with Z being every other SW character).
The fundamental rules of the SW games are different from the fundamental rules in the EU or the films. If you judge Revans actions having the EU/film rules in mind he's great...with the "game" rules he is just the best SW game character.
Just imagine that every hit by a lightsaber or blaster in the games would have the same consequence that it has in the films or the EU. Imagine all mandalorians were something like Boba/Jango Fett and all Dark Jedi in the games are fallen Mace or Obi-Wan while all Sith apprentices / masters / Lords are something like Dooku, Maul or Sidious.
Now...do you think Revan would survive when he has to face AOTC Obi-Wan that went dark + Dooku attacking him with lightsabers while 6 other people shoot at him with blasters when getting hit once mean getting killed, losing limbs or at least making you unable to go on with fighting ?
The other way around imagine people like Anakin, Obi-Wan, Yoda and so on being able to survive 5 or 6 direct hits with a lightsaber. Qui-Gon would never have died, Anakin and Obi-Wan would have killed Dooku in AotC and Yoda would have kicked Sidious ass badly in RotS.
4. There's no evidence that Revan couldn't do any of the things Yoda or Luke did either.
He couldn't make planets, ships or himself invisible with the force...that's something that is unique to Luke afaik.
He couldn't create and control black holes.
He couldn't create and control force storms (like Sidious did in the Dark Empire series)
5. Why do I think Yoda had trouble blocking Sidious' Force lightning? Because when he first used it, it threw him into the wall. The second time, you can clearly see Yoda straining to hold it back. If the power was multiplied by 1.5 then I strongly doubt Yoda could still hold it back, let alone reflect it back at Revan.
Yoda didn't have problems with the force energy he had problems with the physical energy of that force lightning. Imagine you can not get wounded by bullets. Still you would get thrown back when some bullet hits you. When you make the force lightning 1.5 times stronger Yoda would probably slowly slide backwards on his feed until the power between him and Revan explodes.
Next, what makes you think Revan's potential is only at Luke's level? Because he's a game character and not in the movies? Kreia said about Revan (when he's a padawan) that Revan was power, staring at him was like staring into the heart of the Force. Zhar says his potential is unlimited (probably an exaggeration but still...), a Jedi mistakes Revan (who can't use the Force at all) for a Jedi padawan. Now we obviously have no way to compare potential but there's nothing to say his potential is lower or equal with Luke's.
There is not ?
Luke's father was Anakin "Chosen One" Skywalker. The force was Anakins father. So basically Anakin is 50-75 % the force itself when it comes to sheer potential or power. There is no way Revan could be stronger than Anakin except he would be a force avatar (100 % the force) and in this case he could just snap his fingers to do what he wants. And Luke is Anakins son...basically 50-75 % of Anakin or 25-56.25 % the force itself.
And there is no way for Revan to be stronger. Thats simple logic. The only two possibilites of being stronger than Luke is a) be something like Anakin b) be a force avatar. Both isn't true for Revan. So he has to be below Luke's level of potential...no matter what Kreia said.
6. Even if it was a lightsaber duel I think Lord Revan would win. He killed two masters (I call Jolee and Juhani masters, yes) at the same time with ease, before he got stronger. And I do think Yoda was having some trouble against Sidious in the duel. Revan's defeated everyone he's ever faced, he's killed hundreds of mandalorians, Mandalore, the strongest Echani, hundreds of Jedi and hundreds of Dark Jedi and Sith apprentices. the highest level of battle pre-cog, Tulak's holocron, years of experience fighting Force users, and his own raw power would defeat Yoda IMO.
See...again you base everything on how much people Revan killed. Do you think Revan could take Deepa Billaba, Saesee Tiin and Plo Koon (3 council level Jedi Masters) attacking him at once without having a weapon and without getting hit once. Yoda did that with ease (Shadowhunter novel). And even if you think he can do that...how would he be able to hit Yoda ?
Originally posted by Nai Fohl
Still the light side always wins and there has to be some balance between light and dark because otherwise the galaxy would be dominated by the dark side. Obviously that is not the case. What I said was basically the last statement on that point I heared from Lucas himself: The dark side seems to be stronger because it gives the "user" more power with less time, training and so on needed.Well...as far as I see the Revan supporters always base their oppinion on who Revan had fought. He killed X, he killed Y so he is probably able to kill Z (with Z being every other SW character).
The fundamental rules of the SW games are different from the fundamental rules in the EU or the films. If you judge Revans actions having the EU/film rules in mind he's great...with the "game" rules he is just the best SW game character.
Just imagine that every hit by a lightsaber or blaster in the games would have the same consequence that it has in the films or the EU. Imagine all mandalorians were something like Boba/Jango Fett and all Dark Jedi in the games are fallen Mace or Obi-Wan while all Sith apprentices / masters / Lords are something like Dooku, Maul or Sidious.
Now...do you think Revan would survive when he has to face AOTC Obi-Wan that went dark + Dooku attacking him with lightsabers while 6 other people shoot at him with blasters when getting hit once mean getting killed, losing limbs or at least making you unable to go on with fighting ?
The other way around imagine people like Anakin, Obi-Wan, Yoda and so on being able to survive 5 or 6 direct hits with a lightsaber. Qui-Gon would never have died, Anakin and Obi-Wan would have killed Dooku in AotC and Yoda would have kicked Sidious ass badly in RotS.He couldn't make planets, ships or himself invisible with the force...that's something that is unique to Luke afaik.
He couldn't create and control black holes.
He couldn't create and control force storms (like Sidious did in the Dark Empire series)Yoda didn't have problems with the force energy he had problems with the physical energy of that force lightning. Imagine you can not get wounded by bullets. Still you would get thrown back when some bullet hits you. When you make the force lightning 1.5 times stronger Yoda would probably slowly slide backwards on his feed until the power between him and Revan explodes.
There is not ?
Luke's father was Anakin "Chosen One" Skywalker. The force was Anakins father. So basically Anakin is 50-75 % the force itself when it comes to sheer potential or power. There is no way Revan could be stronger than Anakin except he would be a force avatar (100 % the force) and in this case he could just snap his fingers to do what he wants. And Luke is Anakins son...basically 50-75 % of Anakin or 25-56.25 % the force itself.
And there is no way for Revan to be stronger. Thats simple logic. The only two possibilites of being stronger than Luke is a) be something like Anakin b) be a force avatar. Both isn't true for Revan. So he has to be below Luke's level of potential...no matter what Kreia said.See...again you base everything on how much people Revan killed. Do you think Revan could take Deepa Billaba, Saesee Tiin and Plo Koon (3 council level Jedi Masters) attacking him at once without having a weapon and without getting hit once. Yoda did that with ease (Shadowhunter novel). And even if you think he can do that...how would he be able to hit Yoda ?
Deepa wasn't on the council for starters. And we don't think Revan can kill everyone. That's another generalization by the Yoda supporters. If every hit counted, then the game would be different. But since it didn't and we can't think of how it would go since the game egine and Revan and his opponents would have to be completely thrown out and restarted with a whole new egine, Revan, and his enemies. You need to stop comparing things. When we say he killed all these Mandalorians, this was not during the game. When he killed Bandon, it was him with two followers with Bandon and two followers. When he killed Malak, it was one on one. All his powerful opponents he killled, he killed them within the realm of could be reality.
And Anakin's father, was not actually ever said to be the force. Neither were we fully told that the prophesy was correct, since he didn't bring the downfall of the Sith. The Sth were still there during Luke's time, so that knocks off Anakin as being the Chosen One, since he died before the Sith were completely gone forever.
The only reason why Yoda was able to, is he's really tiny. Revan, with a lightsaber could probably do the same feat.
What a bloody mess. Listen, let me get a few things straight:
1- In Dark Rendenvouz, it was said from Count Dooku's perspective alone that a dark Yoda would be a truly horrible thing, capable of annihilating Sidious quite easily. I don't contend this. No one should. Darth Yoda would be amazing.
2- Revan isn't hyped up because of game stats. He also isn't exaggerated because of his accomplishments, nor do his accomplishments undermine his rated ability in a duel match for this board. People who allude to this are just pissy that Revan has a growing and loyal fanbase who doesn't fall back on "The Chosen One" theory or some such nonsense, or this "IMO" crap I see all the time. I mean, "IMO", Mace and Yoda smacked Sidious around quite a bit. Does that change anything? Make basis for factual truth? No. Shuddap and STFU.... IMO.
3- Luke and Sidious in the rather haphazard, cringingly written books ranging from Splinter of the Mind's Eye to Timothy Zahn's works do all sorts of nifty, overpowered and impossible stuff. I'm surprised I haven't seen a Force world crusher yet. Maybe I missed that dull novel. Now, I have yet to see anyone who opposes Revan even bat an eye regarding those two's ridiculously overpowered antics in the post-ROTJ novels. And you know why? Larger fanbase. A mob can shout down the truth of a few. But rhetoric aside, their actions, as much as you or I or anyone might like or dislike them, stand. EU is shaped by Lucasarts and their associates. Each game, novel, comic... hell, the Pez dispensers are certified by Lucas's company. And they don't have a problem with Revan's seeming badassness, and neither should you. They make the rules. So... "IMO"... shuddap on that too.
3- Yoda "at his peak" is a vague attempt at undermining Revan and winning one for the anti-Revans. Yoda was "at his peak" in ROTS. He might have had rheumatoid arthritis like my greatuncle on a rainy day, but his Force potential helped him overcome that. It did not affect his abilities at all. And he lost only due to dramatic neccessity. I mean, Yoda couldn't beat Sidious senseless in a later-made prequel, could he? But he certainly had the potential. Don't get me wrong- I love Yoda. He's funny, wise, odd, and someone easy to respect. Someone like Revan, however, is a bit of an enigma, with no stage presence and no personality to look upon favorably. All he has is a set of robes, and a history of accomplishments. And the awe of an entire galaxy, both enemies and allies alike. But back to my point.... Yoda "At his peak" is ROTS Yoda. Stop trying to pretend like Yoda got weak even two hundred years before ROTS. You're deluding yourself.
I'm done. If I missed something or didn't touch on something, it's because I didn't have the time to sort through the mound of shit that is this thread. I'll get to it another night.
People really do underestimate Yodas ability but also the same with Revan the fact is however Yoda is so in touch with the force if he was to use it for evil then the force that would be unleashed would rival and defeat any sith that has been or will be.
Even if by in his prime you refer to pre battle with palpy then he must have been amazizing because he wipped palps ass
Let me start from the beginning here.
I will try my very best to keep all bias aside. Revan had a ton of accomplishments, he killed mandalore he killed terentaks, he defeated the mandalorians in war by his tactics alone, and he defeated Malak dark lord of the Sith at that time, then went off to fight the Ancient Sith empire. Great accomplishments.
Yoda on the other hand has already done those things at an earlier time, we may not know what he did, but that's becuase Lucas keeps his past a mystery not because he just sat in the temple for 800 years. All the Jedi hold Yoda in the utmost respect, not just becuase he is easy to respect but because of what he could do. Qui-Gon says Anakin's Midi count is higher than Yoda's like its unbelievable, Obi-Wan tells Anakin if he focused on his skills as much as other things he could rival Yoda, not Mace, not Dooku, or any other dead Jedi, Yoda. Which leads you to believe Yoda has to of been the best in all counts for the Jedi, and thats an easy title to hold if you've been around for close to a millennium.
Yoda is easily the best Jedi there was during the PT....
But was Anakin his midi count higher then that of Revan? Possibly we don't know, was Yoda's possibly we don't know. Did Yoda reach his full potential, very likely we don't know.
And he fought ancient Sith Lords? He was 900 years old, the PT clearly says that the Sith have gone for a 1000 years. 1000 years, he may have fought some Dark Jedi but not true Sith Lords, and definitly not somebody like Revan.
And yeah he did sit in that temple for the mayority of 800 years, studying the limited information they had, he may have fought practice matches and all that crap but he never really faced anybody really powerful in a fight for his life until he fought Dooku and then Sidious. He didn't win either of them, he was more powerful but he didn't win either of them.