Originally posted by Nai Fohl
1.)
Yoda > Mace2.)
Yoda is said to be the most powerful Jedi ever.3.)
Where did Mace lost to Sidious ?
Originally posted by Revan Souer
When he crash landed on the street. On the StarWars Database thing they are deemed as equal. Revan was the most Powerful Sith fact, and by there very nature Sith are stronger then Jedi. As they can use both sides of the force where as Jedi only use the light side which thou is helpful. Does kill a man with a gesture of a hand
Mace did not lose to Sidious. He had Sidious disarmed and down on the floor when Anakin came in and ruined the day. That's it. Without Anakin walking in Mace would have killed Sidious. Yoda in a "fair" fight would also do that.
And Sith can use both sides of the force ? That thing only fits for NJO Luke. The rest of the people might be able to use both side abilities but it costs them very much power using an ability from the opposing side. And the ancient Sith didn't even know about the light side...nor did the Sith that came after the battle of Ruusan. That people were Sith from childhood on.
Originally posted by Darth L. Dipsit
Ouch. Sorry, Fishy, sir. I won't make any more images then. Didn't mean to offend anyone. I just hold Yoda above Revan by a little bit, and I think Revan should just be owned every once in a while. I, honestly, believe that Yoda would beat Tulak Hord, who in turn is better than Revan. In the movie, it seemed to me like GL almost contradicted himself with Yoda's fight.But I hope you can forgive me and that we can move on - please accept my humble apologies for my apparent display of ignorance.
Don't apologise it wasn't meant like that, just a joke... Sorry aboot that
i chose yoda as the winner here, granted there isn't a whole lot known about yoda. although some would say if sidious was somewhat on par with yoda in ep. 3, how can yoda fair with revan? this may be off a bit but it seemed to me that none of sidious' attacks were hurting yoda. and sid's first lighting attack at yoda, well, it seemed to me that yoda allowed himself to be hit, as he just stood there, was knocked across the room and just layed there and just open his eyes as if he woke up from a nice nap.
i just think that yoda can nullify just about all force attacks seen. perhaps yoda doesn't know as many forms as revan does but can't see any weakness in yoda when he fights.
do we know a whole bunch about marka ragnos? not a great deal but certainly some would say that marka would rip a hole into revan's chest without breaking a sweat.
however i don't think revan could be called the greatest sith lord of all time. other sith lords that i think were at the very least on par with him were exar kun and naga sadow.
As for lightsaber technique, attaru has a flaw in it no matter how good you are with it the flaw remains, he knew the styles very well he didn't master any one form 100% because there would be no reason to, he took the strengths from all of them to form his own style one which yoda would have no experience against, a form that was as close to perfect in every way as you can get, I never said he mastered every form but he mastered more then one probably. To know a style inside out is not to master it but to know its strengths and weaknesses and how to exploit them as for what he learned from tulak hord, even his holocron still would be probably the best guide for swordsmanship ever.who in the jedi could you compare to tulak for swordsmanship? he was the greatest swordsman in the time of some of the best duelists ever whatever he taught revan was far superior to anything yoda could have learned from his "extensive" sources. Yoda is known to only be a master of attaru and maybe shi-cho not exactly the strongest styles. Yoda never fought in the hyperspace wars, and the nightsisters are a joke any true sith would cut them up easily, everyone yoda actually fought except for sidious was garbage and sidious matched him with a saber, sidious wouldn't be worthy to wipe revans ass for him.
As for yoda being alive 900 years who cares? what force powers did he get out of that except for a strong force defense? Revan had many offensive force powers including ones yoda wouldn't even know about let alone how to defend. Kreias statement about force powers being unblockable was a general statement about the force, never mind revan could also do what nhilus did maybe not as well but he still could as he learned everything there was to know from malachor,could yoda do any of revans offensive moves, No, did he have more sources to learn from,No, did yoda ever learn from malachor the only place where some of revans force knowledge could be learned? Revan could apply his knowledge a lot more than yoda could as he fought in multiple wars against countless jedi and sith as well as other melee opponents. If Revan goes on the offensive which he can then the defensive flaws in attaru will hurt yoda, Revan has at the very least advanced knowledge of the forms at the minimum enough to make a customized blend with almost no weaknesses. Revan learned things that could only be learned from the places he got them, places yoda's never been to holocrons yodas never seen. where does all this leave yoda, using an inferior form of lightsaber combat and with less knowledge against force techniques...[sarcasm] that definitley sounds like winning material to me [sarcasm] see I can be obnoxious too! 😄
Originally posted by Darth_Frobo
As for lightsaber technique, attaru has a flaw in it no matter how good you are with it the flaw remains, he knew the styles very well he didn't master any one form 100% because there would be no reason to, he took the strengths from all of them to form his own style one which yoda would have no experience against, a form that was as close to perfect in every way as you can get, I never said he mastered every form but he mastered more then one probably. To know a style inside out is not to master it but to know its strengths and weaknesses and how to exploit them as for what he learned from tulak hord, even his holocron still would be probably the best guide for swordsmanship ever.who in the jedi could you compare to tulak for swordsmanship? he was the greatest swordsman in the time of some of the best duelists ever whatever he taught revan was far superior to anything yoda could have learned from his "extensive" sources. Yoda is known to only be a master of attaru and maybe shi-cho not exactly the strongest styles. Yoda never fought in the hyperspace wars, and the nightsisters are a joke any true sith would cut them up easily, everyone yoda actually fought except for sidious was garbage and sidious matched him with a saber, sidious wouldn't be worthy to wipe revans ass for him.As for yoda being alive 900 years who cares? what force powers did he get out of that except for a strong force defense? Revan had many offensive force powers including ones yoda wouldn't even know about let alone how to defend. Kreias statement about force powers being unblockable was a general statement about the force, never mind revan could also do what nhilus did maybe not as well but he still could as he learned everything there was to know from malachor,could yoda do any of revans offensive moves, No, did he have more sources to learn from,No, did yoda ever learn from malachor the only place where some of revans force knowledge could be learned? Revan could apply his knowledge a lot more than yoda could as he fought in multiple wars against countless jedi and sith as well as other melee opponents. If Revan goes on the offensive which he can then the defensive flaws in attaru will hurt yoda, Revan has at the very least advanced knowledge of the forms at the minimum enough to make a customized blend with almost no weaknesses. Revan learned things that could only be learned from the places he got them, places yoda's never been to holocrons yodas never seen. where does all this leave yoda, using an inferior form of lightsaber combat and with less knowledge against force techniques...[sarcasm] that definitley sounds like winning material to me [sarcasm] see I can be obnoxious too! 😄
LORD DARKSTAR: No he probably didn’t master all the forms, but he did use a unique one before Bastila and her team, and he did learn from Hord’s holocron. IMO, it doesn’t matter much since if you’re powerful enough, your technique doesn’t help a whole lot.
Like Kreia says, Combat makes one stronger and isolation weakens one. Lord Revan was constantly in combat for 6 years, while Yoda didn’t have to fight much.
As for Tulak’s holocron, they can store tons of information on those, and even answer questions. It would be almost as good as the real thing. And Revan was a very quick learner. Like Zhar said, he can do in weeks what many cannot do in years. Even if he didn’t master it, it would definitely help him a lot.
Revan was a Jedi master when the Mandalorian war started, so he had access to everything. And he had a lust for knowledge, seeking out everything he could whenever he could, again like Zhar said. He had 4 years of Malachor V and that was his main stronghold so he would be there a lot, even with the fighting since he learned all this before really entering the war himself really. You have to remember, he lost all this knowledge when his memory was wiped and then he got about the training of a padawan (so he didn’t learn a whole lot) and he became even stronger since his first reign. Then he later recovered his full memories, skyrocketing his power. He didn’t have just books either, he had holocrons, artifacts, relics, etc. some of which would simply increace his power by having them.
About his confidence, well maybe you’re right, but he’s defeated everyone he’s ever faced, and that’s hundreds of powerful opponents so I wouldn’t call it arrogance. It really isn’t important though since most any Sith lord could’ve defeated the remnants of Bastila’s team (3 people or so).
As for Wikipedia, right you are, it does have some false stuff. Still, it is a very good source for general information and it used to say “As one of the most powerful Sith lords of all time” instead of what it is now “Thought by many to be the most powerful Sith Lord of all time” about Revan.
Originally posted by Nai Fohl
1. He mastered more forms ? That is simply not true. He can use all forms. That doesn't mean he MASTERED them.2. Yoda is not Qui-Gon. Watch that fights. It has weaknesses in defence against multiple opponents (as far as I know Revan is only ONE person) and it has weaknesses in defence. As I said...Yoda doesn't even need a lightsaber to defend himself.
3. It doesn't count how many people you have killed. Otherwise Dooku, Mace and Obi-Wan all should kill Yoda.
4. Tulak Hord is said to be the greatest SITH duelist. Why don't people get that ? That says *nothing* about lightsaber duelist the Jedi Order had.
5. Echani can be killed. Revan can be killed. So much for battle pre-cog.
Did you miss that one ? Yoda: "A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack."
Proof ? Ups...
Kreia was refering to Nihilus so that quote actually doesn't count for Revan.Yeah. [Sarcasm] Sure you can be a Jedi Master for 900 years WITHOUT training with your lightsaber. 30 generations of Padawans can learn that on their own. They just learn that lightsaber combat and than kick your ass because they had training - somebody might have trained them but not you...why should you ? You are the great master Yoda - and you had none [/Sarcasm]
Sure. An entire planet of knowledge. Anybody can learn everything there in a few years. I ask myself why people need that long time to study something when you can learn nearly everything about an entire species or culture (in this case 25,000 years of force powers developed) in such a short time period.
I answered a lot of these in my response to Lord Darkstar's post but some I didn't:
The number of people killed does help because we know thousands of mandalorians, Jedi, and Dark Jedi could not beat him, as well as two Sith Lords, the council members, Mandalore and anyone he has fought thus far. Like Kreia said, Combat makes you stronger while isolation makes you weaker. Revan=constant combat. Yoda=mostly isolation
About Tulak Hord, Sith are generally stronger than Jedi.
Echani can be killed. Yes but that one precognition ability is what makes them so tough, sort of like mandalorians and very few had the power to predict battles, and only a couple were good enough to predict wars. Revan was good enough to predict wars, add that to his already substantial power and he's even stronger. Not to mention he uses the dark side and the dark side is stronger than the light side so he has an advantage there too.
As for your 'learning too fast' posts. Look at Anakin. He did it really fast. Revan is considered to be the Heart of the Force and like Zhar said: "He can do in weeks what many cannot do in years."
Oh and to Revan Souer: You say you're Lord Revan over me? Yeah right. My name is better, my pic is of my Revan, I have a better title and location, though your sig is better. I can argue for Lord Revan way more than you and I have been here much longer so if one of us is Revan, it's me.
when did Kreias words became the law? 😛
Yoda has fought more in his life than Revan anyway.
how could revan learn something in days or weeks, that others didn't managed in years? remember, you do have to read, listen to holocrons etc. and it takes time, unless the holocrons could speak in 10x normal speed, and revan had to read as with ten eyes.....or have i missed something?
Yoda only fought in the clone wars which lasted aproximatley 2 years revan fought for close to a decade against much more powerful opponents then droids, and I would like to thank empereror revan for finally clearing up this, Revan didn't have enough time to learn lightsaber forms crap if he could learn in weeks what many can't in years as zhar said then he sure as hell can learn in years what others can learn in years. you quite literally posted exactly what I was going to.Jerk 😒 yoda actually isolated himself from combat or even sparring up until the clone wars but revan fought countless battle against opponents far superior to those yoda ever faced, 1 mandalorian=30-40 droids 1 jedi/sith=100-200 droids and some loser sith like uthar could probably take sids. As said in a previous post tulak could probably wipe the floor with any jedi as far as swordsmanship is concerned, I've already posted a lot about all the knowledge he has, his superior combat experience and his superior knowledge and experience witha lightsaber including his customized style that was pretty much unbeatable as no one has killed him as far as we know. He specialized in fighting and killing jedi/sith as well as turning them against someone whose greatest accomplishment in terms of combat is beating an incredibly weak sith in count dooku then fighting a sub-par sith to a draw. as for learning in weeks what others did in years, many others have done it and his masters even said he did it end of story. I've pretty much posted countless reasons numerous times that revan is better across this post but somehow certain fanboys are clinging to either, "yodas better because he's in the movie or he's better because he's lightside." as if you look at all the proof people like me and emperor revan have posted like 100 times across this post and how we've shown revan to be better in almost every way then you'd quit being such n00bs about it sit down and shut up.
don't you allow other people to hve other opinions Frobo?
even though you are one of all the "revan-fanboys" who say Revan is superior to everyone, we others may disagree if we want. Noone will shut upjust because you think you can control this forum....
do you seriously think that Yoda didn't fought until the clone wars? I need solid proof to believe that the little gren dude didn't fight in his youth, he sure as hell did.
Originally posted by sasee tiin
when did Kreias words became the law? 😛
Yoda has fought more in his life than Revan anyway.
how could revan learn something in days or weeks, that others didn't managed in years? remember, you do have to read, listen to holocrons etc. and it takes time, unless the holocrons could speak in 10x normal speed, and revan had to read as with ten eyes.....or have i missed something?
Kreia's words aren't law, but she if she knows what she's talking about, it's a really good source. When she talks about Revan, it's important because he was her padawan. As for the war thing, most people know that. Look at AOTC Anakin and Obi. Now put them in 3 years of war and you get ROTS Anakin and Obi who are far stronger. How do you think Revan, the Exile, Kyle, etc. get so strong so quickly? First, they're quick learners but secondly the fight strong opponents constantly.
And Darth Frobo, Thanks for the shout out. 😎
Originally posted by sasee tiin
but do you think that yoda just fought in the clone wars during his 900 years life?
Obviously he's fought more, but how often? There weren't any full scale wars and he is a senior member on the council, so he didn't go out a whole lot. Even on Kashyyyk, he didn't do much that we saw. Sure he fought a lot, but not all at once, those little fights would keep him as strong as he is maybe but not stronger. He wasn't fighting as a leader in two wars for 6 years like Revan. Combat is Revan's home, and he performs really well in it.