CM isn't equal to Superman. I've argued this dozens of times.
Superman>Wonder Woman>Captain Marvel
This like Thing vs. the Hulk. Hulk would beat the Thing's ass. However if the Thing had a sleeping gas attack and of course Hulk was vulnerable to it then Thing has a chance of winning. See the parallel with Superman and CM?
Originally posted by Draco69
Actually they do. Some people just ignore the evidence.Not to mention CM has to SHARE his power with his consorts (Captain Marvel Jr. and Lady Marvel). That make him even weaker.
well DC says CM strength and powers are on par with Supermans. Superman has stated himself that they were equals.
And CM only has to share his powers when the others are transformed. when hes the only one, he has the full power.
Originally posted by jrodslam
well DC says CM strength and powers are on par with Supermans. Superman has stated himself that they were equals.And CM only has to share his powers when the others are transformed. when hes the only one, he has the full power.
On par? Sure. Equals as heros? Absolutely. Equals in power? Absolutely not.
This is not true. Billy Batson gave a portion of Shazam power to his sibilings because A) he felt he couldn't handle all the power and B) he wanted it to be fair for his sibilings. He gets two-thirds while his brother and sister share a third. Regardless of whether they are transformed or not.
Originally posted by Draco69
On par? Sure. Equals as heros? Absolutely. Equals in power? Absolutely not.This is not true. Billy Batson gave a portion of Shazam power to his sibilings because A) he felt he couldn't handle all the power and B) he wanted it to be fair for his sibilings. He gets two-thirds while his brother and sister share a third. Regardless of whether they are transformed or not.
Equals as heroes? Only Batman is a equal hero to Superman. Equals in power has alreay been established. Can you porve otherwise? I highly doubt it.
Even if CM has 2/3 the power, hes still equal to Supes.
Originally posted by jrodslam
Equals as heroes? Only Batman is a equal hero to Superman. Equals in power has alreay been established. Can you porve otherwise? I highly doubt it.
Established? In a armwrestle? And a dialogue caption?
CM has the speed of Mercury right? Diana beat the same god in a race to the underworld. And we both know that Superman is faster than Diana.
CM has the strength of Hercules right? Diana has the strength of Gaea greater than that of Hercules. Diana defeated Hercules in a contest of strength.
Thus: Superman>Wonder Woman>Captain Marvel
I use Wonder Woman's powers and history as evidence. WW is and will always be second to Superman. You and I know this. Let's leave Superman out of this and PROVE WITHOUT A DOUBT (leave references of Superman out of this) that CM is stronger, faster and more durable than Wonder Woman. I'll be back in an hour.
Originally posted by jrodslam
Even if CM has 2/3 the power, hes still equal to Supes.
He's not. He has magical lightening. Without it he would get his ass kicked.
Originally posted by Draco69
Established? In a armwrestle? And a dialogue caption?CM has the speed of Mercury right? Diana beat the same god in a race to the underworld. And we both know that Superman is faster than Diana.
CM has the strength of Hercules right? Diana has the strength of Gaea greater than that of Hercules. Diana defeated Hercules in a contest of strength.
Thus: Superman>Wonder Woman>Captain Marvel
I use Wonder Woman's powers and history as evidence. WW is and will always be second to Superman. You and I know this. Let's leave Superman out of this and PROVE WITHOUT A DOUBT (leave references of Superman out of this) that CM is stronger, faster and more durable than Wonder Woman. I'll be back in an hour.
He's not. He has magical lightening. Without it he would get his ass kicked.
Established in comics, and the DC Encyclopedia. Regardles of what you wanna believe, its been stated.
Without the lightning CM would get his ass kicked? No. The fight would just last a while longer.
CM is faster than Superman and WW. CM moves faster than lighspeeds. WW doesnt. Hes also able to combine the powers he has. Which makes his strength equal to Supermans, and potentialy stronger and definately stronger than WW.
WW is only second to Superman in the JLA. In the whole DCU, CM was listed as well.
this probably wont mean jack to serious fanboys since it wasnt officially done by the companies themselves but the latest issue of Wizard ranks some of the stronger women in comicdom from left to right. i personally, dont agree with everything, cuz dc doesnt operate off marvel's ranking system(designating ppl in class ranges and so forth) but anyway the list looks like this:
Wondergirl-10 tons and growing
Rogue-25 tons(tho i thought she was much stronger than that)
Powergirl-50 tons
she-hulk-85 tons
Supergirl(matrix)-90 tons i believe
Supergirl(current)-95 tons(tho i question this greatly cuz supes said it himself that she might be more powerful than he is, cuz she was being bathed in yellow solar radiation in her pod from the time she left krypton)
WonerWoman-they put 100+(again i disagree cuz im sure she's much stronger than that, she beat down Herc for crying out loud, and he's the Greek god of strength. plus every now and then you see her guide crash landing planes/space ships that weigh hundreds of tons to safety)
Originally posted by jrodslam
Established in comics, and the DC Encyclopedia. Regardles of what you wanna believe, its been stated.Without the lightning CM would get his ass kicked? No. The fight would just last a while longer.
CM is faster than Superman and WW. CM moves faster than lighspeeds. WW doesnt. Hes also able to combine the powers he has. Which makes his strength equal to Supermans, and potentialy stronger and definately stronger than WW.
WW is only second to Superman in the JLA. In the whole DCU, CM was listed as well.
you gotta realize that the lightening is what gives him is power so without it he would get his ass kicked cuz he would just be plain ol billy batson. however, it is pretty obvious that they are equals in terms of brute strength but supes is more versatile with his powers. aslo i wouldnt be so hasty to say that he faster either, WW definatley but not superman.
Total grey area for me as everything ive always seen Captain Marvel is ALWAYS ranked right up there with Sups and paired alongside him
Anyways Powergirl is pretty killer but i dont see her being able to beat Wonder Woman under most circumstances
The only one i DO see happening is Wondey punches towards her massive rack and gets her fist absorbed and has to fight her handless
I actually have another scenerio in mind which ends in a draw but thats not an approprate story for all ages
Originally posted by manjaro
you gotta realize that the lightening is what gives him is power so without it he would get his ass kicked cuz he would just be plain ol billy batson. however, it is pretty obvious that they are equals in terms of brute strength but supes is more versatile with his powers. aslo i wouldnt be so hasty to say that he faster either, WW definatley but not superman.
Well ofcourse the lightning gives Billy the power, and without it he's nothing. I admit that. But its what he has. GL would be nothing without the ring, but thats what gives him his powers. Cant take that away from them.
CM may even have more actual powers than Supes, but he never uses them. Id only give Superman the versatility edge because he uses more powers more often.
Originally posted by jrodslam
Established in comics, and the DC Encyclopedia. Regardles of what you wanna believe, its been stated.
Established by a dialogue and an armwrestle? Please. I have sources that says otherwise. You don't have anymore evidence than this.
Originally posted by jrodslam
Without the lightning CM would get his ass kicked? No. The fight would just last a while longer.
Uh. No. The battle would turn to Superman. The recent JLU episode with Superman and Captain Marvel is by far the most accurate (ironically though) deciption of CM vs. Supes. Supes kicks CM's ass for the majority of the battle until CM uses the lightening.
Originally posted by jrodslam
CM is faster than Superman and WW. CM moves faster than lighspeeds. WW doesnt.
Uh. NO. Please. Dear God. Captain Marvel has the speed of Mercury. Got that? Good. That means he about equal or less to the Mercury's speed. Wonder Woman is FASTER than Mercury. It's been stated by Zeus, Athena, and even Mercury himself. Diana beat Mercury in a race TWICE. And were they moving at lightspeed? NO. Damn close though.
I don't know where you got the idea that CM is FASTER than light. But your sources are completely wrong.
Mercury is the AVATAR of Hermes. Which means that Mercury is not nearly as fast as Hermes. The Roman Gods are WEAKER than the Greek Pantheon. In the War of the Gods storyline, this difference was established. The Greek Pantheon bitchslapped the Roman Gods. They then decide to reabsorb their avatars to regain more of their lost power. The Roman Gods were reliant on the Greek Pantheon to give them power. The Greek Pantheon were basically their bosses.
Conclusion: Mercury (Captain Marvel) < Hermes (Wonder Woman)
Originally posted by jrodslam
Hes also able to combine the powers he has.
This is not true. Shazam's spell does not allow it. He cannot for example use the Speed of Mercury and the Power of Zeus to transform himself into a lightening being. He has the same limitations Diana has.
Originally posted by jrodslam
Which makes his strength equal to Supermans, and potentialy stronger and definately stronger than WW.
Absolutely not true. I'm assuming you're referring to the Atlas/Hercules issue. As decreed from the spell of Shazam. Captain Marvel possesses the Stamina of Atlas and the strength of Hercules. This OBVIOUSLY means he possesses to separate abilities. He doesn't possess BOTH the strengh of Atlas and Hercules. That wasn't the spell. He possesses the stamina of Atlas and the Strength of Hercules. Stamina and strength are two diffenent things. A long distance runner has more stamina than a short distance runner however the latter posssesses more strength. Get it?
Originally posted by jrodslam
WW is only second to Superman in the JLA. In the whole DCU, CM was listed as well.
No. Wonder Woman is second to Superman in the superhero community as a whole. This was established in the following books:
WONDER WOMAN #24
WONDER WOMAN #144
WONDER WOMAN #175
ACTION COMICS #761
WONDER WOMAN #102
WONDER WOMAN #103
WONDER WOMAN #109
Originally posted by Draco69
Established by a dialogue and an armwrestle? Please. I have sources that says otherwise. You don't have anymore evidence than this.
Its been established in multiple comics INCLUDING DC Encyclopedia. Dialogue in an asrmwrestle, when Superman was talking to Marvel.Jr, MM. What are your sources that say otherwise? Please list them that say CM isnt Supermans equal, then we could end this.
Originally posted by Draco69
Uh. No. The battle would turn to Superman. The recent JLU episode with Superman and Captain Marvel is by far the most accurate (ironically though) deciption of CM vs. Supes. Supes kicks CM's ass for the majority of the battle until CM uses the lightening.
By far the most accurate? By Superman being the more experienced and in that episode, CM JUST got into the superhero buisness. He was a fresh rookie. Thats nothing compared to now. It also showed their strengths were equal, Superman just had better fighting ability. Equal fighting ability isnt the arguement here hever. Its the equality in power and strength. Nulled.
Originally posted by Draco69
Uh. NO. Please. Dear God. Captain Marvel has the speed of Mercury. Got that? Good. That means he about equal or less to the Mercury's speed. Wonder Woman is FASTER than Mercury. It's been stated by Zeus, Athena, and even Mercury himself. Diana beat Mercury in a race TWICE. And were they moving at lightspeed? NO. Damn close though.[QUOTE][QUOTE=4111908]Originally posted by Draco69
Mercury is the AVATAR of Hermes. Which means that Mercury is not nearly as fast as Hermes. The Roman Gods are WEAKER than the Greek Pantheon. In the War of the Gods storyline, this difference was established. The Greek Pantheon bitchslapped the Roman Gods. They then decide to reabsorb their avatars to regain more of their lost power. The Roman Gods were reliant on the Greek Pantheon to give them power. The Greek Pantheon were basically their bosses.Conclusion: Mercury (Captain Marvel) < Hermes (Wonder Woman)
Superman is faster than WW, yet CM and Superman are about equal in speeds. Diana has the speed of hermes, yet in War of the GOD's, Hermes beat Flash in a race, did he not? So youre saying that Diana is faster than Flash too? Doubt it. Nulled again.
Originally posted by Draco69
This is not true. Shazam's spell does not allow it. He cannot for example use the Speed of Mercury and the Power of Zeus to transform himself into a lightening being. He has the same limitations Diana has.
Originally posted by Draco69
Absolutely not true. I'm assuming you're referring to the Atlas/Hercules issue. As decreed from the spell of Shazam. Captain Marvel possesses the Stamina of Atlas and the strength of Hercules. This OBVIOUSLY means he possesses to separate abilities. He doesn't possess BOTH the strengh of Atlas and Hercules. That wasn't the spell. He possesses the stamina of Atlas and the Strength of Hercules. Stamina and strength are two diffenent things.
http://flarenova.com/shazam/temp/wf254_power3.jpg
Guess DC is wrong then huh?
http://www.comicboards.com/comicbattles/attachments/050430041910/billystrength.jpg
Hope the link worked. It CLEARLY stated that CM is using the COMBINED strength of Hercules AND Atlas. DC wrong again right?
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