Who knows what happened, but I find it odd that of all the people that have accused MJ of inappropriate behaviour, none have been little girls. I mean, if all it is is parents after money, I'm sure there'd be some parents of little girls wanting some too.
In fact, I don't recall any time that MJ has associated with little girls. It's always been little boys. And he stops talking to them after they reach a certain age. I think that's kind of odd. I wonder if the prosecution have brought any of that up?
Well lots of the porn allegations made were that he showed the kids lots of things involving naked females, so I doubt he's gay. Homosexual or not the question is, did he molest the kids? I don't believe he did.
As for Culkin, I have on extremely good authority from a number of sources that he didn't touch him. More to the point, Culkin is a alcoholic and a drug abuser. If anyone had motive to come out and try to get money off Jackson, it'd be that guy. He hasn't though.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Well lots of the porn allegations made were that he showed the kids lots of things involving naked females, so I doubt he's gay. Homosexual or not the question is, did he molest the kids? I don't believe he did.
And that's fine that you believe that. But it is a common practice by pedophiles to keep pornography of women to bait little boys. My friends (the three who are cops anyway) say they've seen that many times.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
As for Culkin, I have on extremely good authority from a number of sources that he didn't touch him.
Is it Culkin himself? Culkin's shrink? Or Michael Jackson? Who else would know?
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
More to the point, Culkin is a alcoholic and a drug abuser. If anyone had motive to come out and try to get money off Jackson, it'd be that guy. He hasn't though. [/QUOTE]
One could say that Culkin is an alcoholic because of his repressing the guilt from being Michael Jackson.
You ask people not to judge him as guilty until all the evidence and the court case is finished, yet you put forth evidence for his innocence. Isn't that a wee bit hypocritical?
Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
yeah but doesnt it sound fitting to make it worse by saying its little boys? that would make him look doubly bad as a pedophile AND a homosexual.. I dont think the media would risk not being able to label him as being gay too
Pedophiles are almost exclusively heterosexual. Pedophilia is a sexual attraction to children and while some may have an affinity for children of a particular gender or age, many do not.
A fair point, But then how come we constantly hear of Male Pedos and their relationships with boys...? Its almost a cliche.... And like most cliches, they are formed through years of truism....
And Jackson certainly fits the patternistic behavior of a male pedophile... As Kharma outlined, why hang with ONLY boys (Unless they are a sister of a 'potential victim' as we have seen, he don't wanna know girls it seems) and furthermore only boys of a certain young age... The minute they reach pubescent age, he abandons all previously obssessive contact and cold shoulders them.... He has been behaving in this way since he was 23 and that is a fair old amount of time.... And he cannot stop it despite all the trouble it has caused, suggesting a total lack of control or unwillingness to correspond with reality... Dodgy behavior indeed..........
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
A fair point, But then how come we constantly hear of Male Pedos and their relationships with boys...? Its almost a cliche.... And like most cliches, they are formed through years of truism....
Most parents would regard a grown man taking interest in their pre-adolescent daughter with suspicion. But a male pedophile is allowed almost unfettered access to boys in the form of a role model such as scout leader, sport coach, etc. It is a matter of access, not preference.
Probably the same if not MORE suspicion depending on the parents/culture we are talking.... How ever... I see your point about access.... But that doesn't mean that say every scout master is a nonce though huh...? But ones with MJ's known trackrecord/profile almost certainly would be suspected/denied access at least over here.....
Originally posted by KharmaDog
Is it Culkin himself? Culkin's shrink? Or Michael Jackson? Who else would know?
Culkin's lawyers, Steven Marcelino and Eric Sauter.
...And yes I do know them in person because they're very good friends with my father and I happened to have had dinner with them multiple times whilst in New York.
Originally posted by KharmaDog
You ask people not to judge him as guilty until all the evidence and the court case is finished, yet you put forth evidence for his innocence. Isn't that a wee bit hypocritical?
Put forward all the "evidence" for his "guilt" that you want to. Go right for it. Never said you couldn't. I can't ask people not to judge him coz they will anyway, I can't stop that. I'm saying that I don't believe there is anywhere NEAR enough evidence to suggest he did do it, than there is to suggest he didn't.
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
And Jackson certainly fits the patternistic behavior of a male pedophile... As Kharma outlined, why hang with ONLY boys (Unless they are a sister of a 'potential victim' as we have seen, he don't wanna know girls it seems) and furthermore only boys of a certain young age...
Fits the behaviour of a paedophile? Are you for real? The man hangs out with young kids. Is the next logical step up, to you, being a paedophile? Or are you just being random and inconclusive again?
Dodgy behaviour? Yes. Paedophilic? No. Which is he getting tried for?
Clue: It's not the first one.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Culkin's lawyers, Steven Marcelino and Eric Sauter....And yes I do know them in person because they're very good friends with my father and I happened to have had dinner with them multiple times whilst in New York.
First off I wouldn't trust whole heartedly anything a lawyer said, especially regarding a client he is sworn to defend.
Secondly I would fire my lawyers asses off in an instant if they were discussing my case or personal life with their friends over dinner. I don't see that being appropriate in the least.
Lastly, you'll have to forgive my scepticism, but this is the Internet, and you could just be bullsh*tting me.
Do I come across as the sort of person who believes in bullshitting over the internet?
Your opinion on that not withstanding, I'm not.
Secondly, they didn't discuss his details. All they said was that during the case, Culkin repeatedly said that he wasn't touched by Jackson. No more no less, and I asked. They said they weren't permitted.
Third, I totally understand where you're coming from as far as trusting lawyers. I don't know these guys as lawyers, I know them as people. While job obviously comes first, they're not liars. Steven Marcelino is one of the single most respected lawyers in New York City.
This is all irrelevant, just saying that's where I'm basing my info.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha CentauriFits the behaviour of a paedophile? Are you for real? The man hangs out with young kids. Is the next logical step up, to you, being a paedophile? Or are you just being random and inconclusive again?
Dodgy behaviour? Yes. Paedophilic? No. Which is he getting tried for?
Clue: It's not the first one.
-AC
Firstly, calm down and stop trying to be putting words in my mouth.... "Random and inconclusive again?" Don't address me if you have a problem with what I'm saying and certainly before attempting to get so personal. If this guy was just some social worker or teacher, id say that no....It wouldn't mean that he was having a unnatural relationship automatically... But part of being in those jobs would mean knowing that sleeping in beds with the clients/students would be UNPROFESSIONAL and that they would be sacked for having undue relations of a potentially sexual nature.... MJ's behavior since 23 towards little boys constantly ringing them, obssessing over them, grooming the parents as well as the child and sleeping with them and then cutting off suddenly when they are of pubescant age is classic pedophile behavior..... Sorry.... But it is.....
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Firstly, calm down and stop trying to be putting words in my mouth.... If this guy was just some social worker or teacher, id say that no....It wouldn't mean that he was having a unnatural relationship automatically... But part of being in those jobs would mean knowing that sleeping in beds with the clients/students would be UNPROFESSIONAL and that they would be sacked for having undue relations of a potentially sexual nature.... MJ's behavior since 23 towards little boys constantly ringing them, obssessing over them, grooming the parents as well as the child and sleeping with them and then cutting off suddenly when they are of pubescant age is classic pedophile behavior..... Sorry.... But it is.....
First, I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth and I am calm.
Second, if he's grooming the parents as well as the child, what does that say to you? That he's some special breed of kiddie fiddler who preys on adults? How the Hell do you define "kid"? Anyone under 40? Jeez.
He likes children......alot. Some would say obsession. So what? That's not illegal. If you think it's odd, great. I can see why you might think that. However, that doesn't give you reason to believe he is a paedophile though, at least it shouldn't.
Classic paedophile behavior is constantly calling young boys, obsessing over them, and bullshitting to the parents? Sounds like every teenage girl who ever lived. He loves children, alot. Like I said, some would say it's an obsession. As long as he isn't (and we don't know that he is or not, we only have our beliefs) harming them, what is the problem? There isn't one.
It seems to me that you feel classic paedophile behaviour is everything that Michael Jackson is doing. I've never known any paedophile to be a nice guy to kids for years and years. They usually do the whole kidnapping, usually murder thing. They don't lavish them with gifts, shelter and friendship.......WITH the parents. If you think he's suspicious, that's cool with me. I just don't see why it boils over into "He hangs out with kids way too much for ME, he must be a molester".
But then what would I know? The rational thinker I tend to be.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
First, I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth and I am calm.Second, if he's grooming the parents as well as the child, what does that say to you? That he's some special breed of kiddie fiddler who preys on adults? How the Hell do you define "kid"? Anyone under 40? Jeez.
He likes children......alot. Some would say obsession. So what? That's not illegal. If you think it's odd, great. I can see why you might think that. However, that doesn't give you reason to believe he is a paedophile though, at least it shouldn't.
Classic paedophile behavior is constantly calling young boys, obsessing over them, and bullshitting to the parents? Sounds like every teenage girl who ever lived. He loves children, alot. Like I said, some would say it's an obsession. As long as he isn't (and we don't know that he is or not, we only have our beliefs) harming them, what is the problem? There isn't one.
It seems to me that you feel classic paedophile behaviour is everything that Michael Jackson is doing. I've never known any paedophile to be a nice guy to kids for years and years. They usually do the whole kidnapping, usually murder thing. They don't lavish them with gifts, shelter and friendship.......WITH the parents. If you think he's suspicious, that's cool with me. I just don't see why it boils over into "He hangs out with kids way too much for ME, he must be a molester".
But then what would I know? The rational thinker I tend to be.
-AC
Well thats just the problem isn't it... We/you DON'T know that he ISN'T.
Pedophiles often need to groom the parents...
(Often single moms as MJ has) ...in order to gain thier trust leaving the kids in a more vulnerable position.
Well as for the "I've never known any paedophile to be a nice guy to kids for years and years. They usually do the whole kidnapping, usually murder thing. They don't lavish them with gifts, shelter and friendship.......WITH the parents." I think you might want to study more cases of them a LOT of them have exhibited that behavior over the years.....
"It seems to me that you feel classic paedophile behaviour is everything that Michael Jackson is doing." A clear misperception of yours....
Am I saying he is wrong for Moonwalking? No. Am I saying he is wrong for having ever had a chimp named Bubbles... No. Am I saying hes wrong for sleeping in an oxygen tent. No.... I could go on, but im sure you get the picture....
Look... Clearly you may never be convinced I am entitled to my beliefs on this subject... no matter how much research I have done on this and other cases.... So I'm gonna back out of this and allow you to go on making statements about me behind my back and not oppose you so that you can get back to making such unbiased/unblanketting statements as 'People are scum and thats why people will always try to find fault with him' and "It seems to me that you feel classic paedophile behaviour is everything that Michael Jackson is doing."
I don't get you... One minute you are purporting to take neutral ground, then you only swat down those views that oppose your own... You are entitled to your beliefs, and I have listened to your POV but it'll never truly be a mutual thing there I strongly suspect..... So sad.......
Oh well... Take it easy..... Peace.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
First, I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth and I am calm.Second, if he's grooming the parents as well as the child, what does that say to you? That he's some special breed of kiddie fiddler who preys on adults? How the Hell do you define "kid"? Anyone under 40? Jeez.
He likes children......alot. Some would say obsession. So what? That's not illegal. If you think it's odd, great. I can see why you might think that. However, that doesn't give you reason to believe he is a paedophile though, at least it shouldn't.
Classic paedophile behavior is constantly calling young boys, obsessing over them, and bullshitting to the parents? Sounds like every teenage girl who ever lived. He loves children, alot. Like I said, some would say it's an obsession. As long as he isn't (and we don't know that he is or not, we only have our beliefs) harming them, what is the problem? There isn't one.
It seems to me that you feel classic paedophile behaviour is everything that Michael Jackson is doing. I've never known any paedophile to be a nice guy to kids for years and years. They usually do the whole kidnapping, usually murder thing. They don't lavish them with gifts, shelter and friendship.......WITH the parents. If you think he's suspicious, that's cool with me. I just don't see why it boils over into "He hangs out with kids way too much for ME, he must be a molester".
But then what would I know? The rational thinker I tend to be.
-AC
Congrats!! You just descibed the profile of a pedophile to a T!!
"I've never known any paedophile to be a nice guy to kids for years and years. They usually do the whole kidnapping, usually murder thing. They don't lavish them with gifts, shelter and friendship.......WITH the parents."
This is actually exactly how most pedophiles are. The murder thing is innacurate, most people who commit pedophillia are very nice to the kids, and friends with the parents, and don't actually phyisically harm the child.
Originally posted by Alpha CentauriHe likes children......alot. Some would say obsession. So what? That's not illegal. If you think it's odd, great. I can see why you might think that. However, that doesn't give you reason to believe he is a paedophile though, at least it shouldn't.
-AC
its illegal when you put your hands down a kids pants, or anyones pants for that matter. HE PLAYS WITH KIDS GENITALS! have you not seen or heard this?
Originally posted by Mist
you took that the wrong way, i knew someone would misinterpret it. i meant it as you have to look at the irony of it.and you seem to be a MJ fan, so im not even gonna bother wasting my time with you.....
I am a fan of the music he made yes. That's in no way influencial to my debate. If he's a child molester, he deserves the punishment of a child molester. However, suggesting that you're NOT gonna waste time sort of indicates that you could if you wanted to. So go for it. Don't let my rampant MJ fanboyism stop you 🙄 .
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Well thats just the problem isn't it... We/you DON'T know that he ISN'T.
You don't know that he is. I believe all you have to go by is dodgy, amnesia stricken witnesses and suspicion.
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Pedophiles often need to groom the parents...
(Often single moms as MJ has) ...in order to gain thier trust leaving the kids in a more vulnerable position.
Because it's quite impossible that he actually wanted to spend platonic time with the children, right? He obviously wanted to get them in a vulnerable position.
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
I think you might want to study more cases of them a LOT of them have exhibited that behavior over the years.....
Paedophiles don't stalk people for years. Their mentality doesn't allow it. That's why so many paedophiles have multiple repeat offenses.
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Look... Clearly you may never be convinced I am entitled to my beliefs on this subject..no matter how much research I have done on this and other cases....
You requested that I don't put words in your mouth. Don't be a hypocrite and do the same to me. You're entitled to whatever you want, I'm entitled to spank your debate all over the room and I'll continue to do so as long as you keep talking tripe. Which you are entitled to do, and I am entitled to think.
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
I don't get you... One minute you are purporting to take neutral ground, then you only swat down those views that oppose your own... You are entitled to your beliefs, and I have listened to your POV but it'll never truly be a mutual thing there I strongly suspect..... So sad.......
Oh well... Take it easy..... Peace.
I respect your right to an opinion, I have that same right. Watch me use it now:
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
So I'm gonna back out of this and allow you to go on making statements about me behind my back and not oppose you so that you can get back to making such unbiased/unblanketting statements as 'People are scum and thats why people will always try to find fault with him' and "It seems to me that you feel classic paedophile behaviour is everything that Michael Jackson is doing."
Behind your back? What the Hell?
Back on Earth: People have been trying to nail Jackson for SOMETHING for years, it's no secret and it's well documented.
So yes, back out. Because you've clearly got nothing left. Except do the honourable thing and stop acting like you're doing it because you are fed up. Admit that you're doing it because you've got nothing to stand on or fall back on.
-AC