Iceman (full potential) vs. Superman

I doubt he could freeze Superman's insides. His innards are protected as well as his outer body (how else can he suck in poisoned gas, etc. and just spit it back out?).

Also, Lord Fear is right:

Superman's physiology differs from humans, it is unknown by how much because current technology isn't able to see inside his body. However, when he was injured by Gog in Action, he was taken to STAR labs...and the Kryptonite in his body enabled the doctors to see inside of him...at least a little bit.

So far (besides the two organs in his body that produce his special powers):

His appendix is a fully formed organ.
His resting heart-rate is near stopped.
His body temp is slightly elevated.
His blood pressure is nonexistent.

So I'm sure Superman could use his heat vision to melt Iceman, but he can't permanently take him out unless Iceman reforms enough to be flown into space.

Iceman, on the other hand, can't do anything to Superman. That moisture inversion stuff won't do anything to him, his forcefield will protect him. Freezing/ice won't hurt him: he's been in the depths of space...and until recently his hideout was in one of the coldest places on Earth. Superman is no stranger to cold temps.

It's a stalemate at best, a win for Supes at worst.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Darkseid harming Surfer with the Omega Effect is not happening, even if he did sneak up on him. That would make the crossover non-canon.

You never mentioned a Kryptonite Bomb. Doesn't matter. Cythonna was weakened. Superman wasn't. Not a fair fight. 😄

Do you recall me saying that Bobby would win?

Not at all. Had to make sure though.

Either way. Once again...Cythonnas an ice goddess..and her ice powers did nothing to supes.

She beat the hell out of him every other way. My point all along. Can you find where I said it was a fair fight? I've said the opposite.

Did Cythonna become vapor, enter Clark's body, and freeze his heart from the inside, bypassing his bio-matrix forcefield? If not, I think it is a plausible course of attack for Bobby considering the evidence of Supes body metabolizing water, food, and air.

The fact that Supes flies through space on a regular basis and that space is extremely cold and doesn't effect him is of no consequence because:

1) Supes has a protective forcefield that protects him from the outside.
2) A GL can do the same thing. John Stewart and Hal Jordan aren't kryptonian. Unless, of course, GL rings come with built in heaters for space travel.
3) There is a reason why Supes holds his breath while in space, his lungs are vunlnerable, he has to metabolize air. His physiology isn't so alien he doesn't need air, water, or food.

The fact that Cythonna is more powerful than Iceman is of no consequence either. She wasn't shown to use this particular method of attack available to Bobby. You don't have to be insanely powerful when you have a decisive tactical advantage. Sometimes it's about using what you have the right way. Just ask Batman.

Iceman would win.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Can iceman freeze the earth, or hurt beings who survive planet destroying blasts? Coud he survive on the sun?

Do you know more than John Byrne?

Who knows. He probably could.

Who survived a planet destroying blast?

Sure he could. As water vapor.

Please. Enough with the "Do you know more than so-snd-so?" It's pathetic.

Here's a question for you: Does Superman get a Kryptonite bomb in this fight too? 😆

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Who knows. He probably could.

Who survived a planet destroying blast?

Sure he could. As water vapor.

Please. Enough with the "Do you know more than so-snd-so?" It's pathetic.

Here's a question for you: Does Superman get a Kryptonite bomb in this fight too? 😆

It's cute when you try the reverse logic type thing to get yourself out of a hole. It's pathetic. 😆

John Byrne's knowledge of these characters>CC

Bobby Could, should, but he hasnt. 🙂

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
It's cute when you try the reverse logic type thing to get yourself out of a hole. It's pathetic. 😆

John Byrne's knowledge of these characters>CC

Bobby Could, should, but he hasnt. 🙂

Reverse what logic? You're the one that's in a hole.

CC ability to write comic book stories apparently>John Byrne

Heaven knows.

Kryptonite Bomb!blowup

😆

I doubt he could freeze Superman's insides. His innards are protected as well as his outer body (how else can he suck in poisoned gas, etc. and just spit it back out?).

The same way I can fake taking a hit from a joint and exhale smoke without it ever entering my lungs.

Like Bill Clinton;

don't inhale (fully).

So long as it doesn't fully enter his lungs and metabolize he's ok, just like us. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has done that with the joint/blunt, or sucked air into your mouth and puffed out your cheeks without inhaling the air fully into your lungs and then blowing it out.

Supes does breath, eat, and drink, so obviously things do pass through his biomatrix internally.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Did Cythonna become vapor, enter Clark's body, and freeze his heart from the inside, bypassing his bio-matrix forcefield? If not, I think it is a plausible course of attack for Bobby considering the evidence of Supes body metabolizing water, food, and air.

The fact that Supes flies through space on a regular basis and that space is extremely cold and doesn't effect him is of no consequence because:

1) Supes has a protective forcefield that protects him from the outside.
2) A GL can do the same thing. John Stewart and Hal Jordan aren't kryptonian. Unless, of course, GL rings come with built in heaters for space travel.
3) There is a reason why Supes holds his breath while in space, his lungs are vunlnerable, he has to metabolize air. His physiology isn't so alien he doesn't need air, water, or food.

The fact that Cythonna is more powerful than Iceman is of no consequence either. She wasn't shown to use this particular method of attack available to Bobby. You don't have to be insanely powerful when you have a decisive tactical advantage. Sometimes it's about using what you have the right way. Just ask Batman.

Iceman would win.

Ok to respond to your three reasons:
1. So if deep space has no effect on his innards because of his force field, then why an attack from the OUTSIDE from Bobby would affect him then? It's like your argument is not consistent because it only works for one thing not the other.
2.GL? The man protects or surrounds himself with a thin layer of forcefield at all times. That field envelops him at all times and only his mental command can take it off or if the ring is at low power.
3.Supes holds his breath everytime he goes into space?
Can that be verified accurately? Then how can he talk in space?
Wouldn't his vocal cords need air to have the sounds resonate?
I really don't understand. If that's not the case, then either way that only proves even further how alien his anatomy is and how this plan of attack is just an unfounded idea.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Reverse what logic? You're the one that's in a hole.

CC ability to write comic book stories apparently>John Byrne

Heaven knows.

Kryptonite Bomb!blowup

😆

CC is now better than John Byrne. I've feel i've lost you. That hole is too deep. 😆

Kryptonyte bomb x infinity!! 😆

Originally posted by illadelph12
Did Cythonna become vapor, enter Clark's body, and freeze his heart from the inside, bypassing his bio-matrix forcefield? If not, I think it is a plausible course of attack for Bobby considering the evidence of Supes body metabolizing water, food, and air.

Again, his forcefield protects the INSIDE of his body as well. He needs air, but not food or water. His body can survive on solar energy alone. He just eats because he likes food, plus he's been eating long before his powers developed. It's a habit, not a necessity.

Plus, in AoA who did Bobby use the inversion on? I only have the first issue featuring the team, but I only saw him use it to help move his team. Noone on that team was nearly as durable as Superman, nor was anyone who Pietro's team fought. Again, I highly doubt that it would work.

Originally posted by illadelph12
The same way I can fake taking a hit from a joint and exhale smoke without it ever entering my lungs.

Like Bill Clinton;

don't inhale (fully).

So long as it doesn't fully enter his lungs and metabolize he's ok, just like us. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has done that with the joint/blunt, or sucked air into your mouth and puffed out your cheeks without inhaling the air fully into your lungs and then blowing it out.

Supes does breath, eat, and drink, so obviously things do pass through his biomatrix internally.

Yes they pass through his biomatrix but they are normal untainted processes. When something malignant or destructive enters his system, those normal functions won't keep functioning at the same rate. While Bobby is in vapor form trying to disrupt his brain activity or whatever, his immune system or biomatrix (if they are separate entities) will kick in and protect him.

Also, as a sidenote, in order to perform mouth to mouth resuscitation (cpr), you draw in oxygen, then blow it into the person lacking airs lungs. If you fully inhaled and then did it, you'd be blowing carbon dioxide (CO2) into their lungs because that is what humans exhale. Just adding that to add to my argument showing that the above is possible.

Originally posted by LordFear
Ok to respond to your three reasons:
1. So if deep space has no effect on his innards because of his force field, then why an attack from the OUTSIDE from Bobby would affect him then? It's like your argument is not consistent because it only works for one thing not the other.
2.GL? The man protects or surrounds himself with a thin layer of forcefield at all times. That field envelops him at all times and only his mental command can take it off or if the ring is at low power.
3.Supes holds his breath everytime he goes into space?
Can that be verified accurately? Then how can he talk in space?
Wouldn't his vocal cords need air to have the sounds resonate?
I really don't understand. If that's not the case, then either way that only proves even further how alien his anatomy is and how this plan of attack is just an unfounded idea.

Don't forget the best question, how did supes LIVE in the sun for thousands of years if he needs to breathe in space?

Also, as a second sidenote, I'm not arguing the inversion end of the debate, I'm arguing that Iceman could cause terminal damage to Supes innards. Don't see him turning Superman's head into a puddle, but I can see him freezing the blood in Kal El's heart from the inside and causing him a severe heart attack.

How can he...if his forcefield PROTECTS HIS INSIDES????

I'm still waiting...

Originally posted by LordFear
Yes they pass through his biomatrix but they are normal untainted processes. When something malignant or destructive enters his system, those normal functions won't keep functioning at the same rate. While Bobby is in vapor form trying to disrupt his brain activity or whatever, his immune system or biomatrix (if they are separate entities) will kick in and protect him.

Posssibly, but the thing with that course of logic is that Bobby would not be malignant presence in his body. Supes immune system would not have any way to distinguish Bobby from normal water vapor. I'm very sure his immune system can not detect a disembodied consciousness within him. Supe hass been posessed, mind controlled, and fell victim to psychic illusions after all, and his "immune system" had no effect.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Also, as a second sidenote, I'm not arguing the inversion end of the debate, I'm arguing that Iceman could cause terminal damage to Supes innards. Don't see him turning Superman's head into a puddle, but I can see him freezing the blood in Kal El's heart from the inside and causing him a severe heart attack.

Again that scenario is effective for a HUMAN BEING!!!
Not an alien who's physiology is virtually unknown.
His heart and b/p and all operate on a very different scale from a terran.
I mean Christ, the man's crib is in the South Pole (or is it North?).
Is he unfamiliar with the concept of exteme or deep freeze?
I have seen him swim deep undersea with Aquaman numerous times.
Do you know how cold the bottom of the sea is, where light can't even reach it?

Originally posted by DrDoom
How can he...if his forcefield PROTECTS HIS INSIDES????

I'm still waiting...

The aura doesn't protect his insides. It's a skintight bio-aura.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
CC is now better than John Byrne. I've feel i've lost you. That hole is too deep. 😆

Kryptonyte bomb x infinity!! 😆

Guess so, if he puts out crap like that crossover. Give it up. You're in the hole, and you can't get out. Superman couldn't beat Cythonna without a Kryptonite Bomb, but you never said anything about it.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Posssibly, but the thing with that course of logic is that Bobby would not be malignant presence in his body. Supes immune system would not have any way to distinguish Bobby from normal water vapor. I'm very sure his immune system can not detect a disembodied consciousness within him. Supe hass been posessed, mind controlled, and fell victim to psychic illusions after all, and his "immune system" had no effect.

Ok but once he starts to create havoc within Supes, therefore making his presence felt by Supe's body like,"Hey something is wrong here"
That's when the whole immune system thing kicks in.
It's like cancer. As long as the tissues are normal and healthy, the body is fine but as soon as they begin to multiply and become dangerous to the body, that's when your immune kicks in.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
The aura doesn't protect his insides. It's a skintight bio-aura.

Guess so, if he puts out crap like that crossover. Give it up. You're in the hole, and you can't get out. Superman couldn't beat Cythonna without a Kryptonite Bomb, but you never said anything about it.

I expected better cube. Keep trying though... *throws some rope*

Why would I have to bring in the bomb? Her ice powers didnt faze him. Her vastly superior physical advantages did. It's been stated by myself quite a few times.