Originally posted by Darth Plagues
To me Count Dooku was the heir to one of the greatest duelist of all time, since Tulak Hord's time...He's beat Mace before so...it all stands on which version of the character we are talking about.
Dubbed the "Way of the Vornskr," Form VII was an incomplete form for millennia. It was further developed by Jedi Master Mace Windu, who could complete it with his, "Vaapaad" style. The most challenging and demanding of all forms, Form VII requires extreme, intense focus, high levels of skill, and mastery of other forms. Only two Jedi have ever mastered Form VII fully, Mace Windu and Depa Billaba. One other Jedi, Sora Bulq, mastered its physical aspects but was overwhelmed by the required mental discipline. Form VII, when fully mastered, results in extraordinary power.
Mace Windu easily takes Dooku.
Yes. But Dooku's form is Makishi (I don't think the spelling is accurate) and is the form best used in lightsabre combat. According to the games and to Wikipedia, Makishi is the BEST form to use in direct lightsaber combat - which is why Dooku so easily overcame Obi-Wan and Anakin in Attack of the Clones - and why he held them both off in ROTS.
well to be honest i only said that cuz people in here seem to think dooku dosent have a chance when in plain reality its the other way around. and for jedi master Luke5 its in the star wars databank that dooku did indeed beat mace as well as yoda has beaten him. he is one of my favorites but he is not better than dooku.
ohh and plz dont try to throw saber forms in there and jus automatically assume he can win. vaapad is not the best fighting style thats jus speculation and jus cuz its hard to master is because nobody ever mastered it nor even bothered with it. its a made up self sytle. so if no one is around to teach you of course its gonna be hard. thats common sense. how would you play sports when no one has taught you how. and if you learned by urself too does that jus autmatically mean ur the best. Please................. Dooku is one of the best duelist the order has ever had. dooku wins hands down
Mace wins so easily...
Ok, this is kind of stupid.
I would give Count Dooku ten seconds, tops, against Mace Windu.
Why?
Because of VAPAAD!!!!
Holy crap! Dosen't anyone know about it?
It reflects the Dark Side and allows its user to use the extra energy wafting off the opponant to his advantage.
Thats why Sidious slowly lost to Windu.
If Mace used Vapaad against Dooku, Dooku would get his butt kicked in under ten seconds. If you don't beleive me, read in more depth about Vapaad, you'll see what im talking about.
Mace Wins, end of story.
(This is stupid, Mace can beat Dooku easily, they need to make a Mace Windu w/o Vapaad Versus Count Dooku. Then Dooku would have a good chance. He'd still lose though.)
(Mace has mastered 7 forms of lightsaber combat.
Dooku?
1.
Mace Wins.)
Re: Mace wins so easily...
Originally posted by Master_Starbuck
Ok, this is kind of stupid.
I would give Count Dooku ten seconds, tops, against Mace Windu.
Why?
Because of VAPAAD!!!!
Holy crap! Dosen't anyone know about it?
It reflects the Dark Side and allows its user to use the extra energy wafting off the opponant to his advantage.
Thats why Sidious slowly lost to Windu.
If Mace used Vapaad against Dooku, Dooku would get his butt kicked in under ten seconds. If you don't beleive me, read in more depth about Vapaad, you'll see what im talking about.Mace Wins, end of story.
(This is stupid, Mace can beat Dooku easily, they need to make a Mace Windu w/o Vapaad Versus Count Dooku. Then Dooku would have a good chance. He'd still lose though.)
(Mace has mastered 7 forms of lightsaber combat.
Dooku?
1.
Mace Wins.)
OMG!!! Thats the biggest pile of bullsh*t I ever heard in my life!! Im not even going to bother arguing the points because they are so wrong. I mean 10 seconds - do you even know who Count Dooku is?
id obviously go with mace but dooku could hold it off for a while. if you take the forms as cannon and apply them to the battle then mace would win as he, as said before, uses vapaad which uses the enmies strengh and the darkside against them, giving mace extra strengh and power. he would win against dooku, why do you think sam played him!
vapaad is the best of all the forms (exept maybe niman if it was trained to a very high degree), its the hardest form to learn and noone bothered to learn it because it was so hard to master, only mace was able to stay on the lightside. the main effects are that the user can use the enemies anger and hate against then, turning the battle in thier favor.
dooku's makashi relies on precise cuts and movements and timings. dooku even noted that a makashi fighter could never match the power generated by djem so users, and since mace was a master of both vapaad and djem so (vapaad uses the same amount of kenetic energy) he would be able to force dooku back. makashi is an elegant form of an arragant user. the fight would be like dooku vs ani on the invisable hand
the reson ani and obi lost in ep2 was that they were only skilled at jedi knight level. ep3 shows all thier skills at the peak of the saga.
in dooku's defense, he uses makashi, which relies on precisecuts and perfect timing but he couldn't win. if mace bested palp' in combat, palp' uses more than makashi (eg shii-cho and niman) in the battle, then dooku couldn't win.
mace hasn't studied all forms of combat, in ep3 i onlt noted 3 styles in the palp' battle, vapaad, djem so and shii-cho.
as for rampant ox, and for that matter any people who are bias, use common sense and realise mace is stronger than obi-wan, anakin and dooku.
in the star wars databank, it does say that he was beaten by yoda and dooku but that was 13 years ago and mace hadent perfected his vapaad by then.
overall, mace would win but dooku would hold out for a while. id personally put it as the same lengh as the invisable hand battle or the ani vs obi battle, and it'd be just as aggressive.
Re: Re: Mace wins so easily...
Originally posted by Rampant ox
OMG!!! Thats the biggest pile of bullsh*t I ever heard in my life!! Im not even going to bother arguing the points because they are so wrong. I mean 10 seconds - do you even know who Count Dooku is?
Yeah, you Dumb@$$ of course I know who Count Dooku is.
That's why I know He'd lose against Mace, I've wasted alot of my time studying the Sith and Jedi inside and out, including their proponants.
Now mabye Dooku woulden't lose in ten seconds but I would give him half the time Palpatine had before he was defeated.
Also, Vapaad is canon. It was created and put into one of the official novels which actaully does make it canon.
Lastly, I don't give a flying flip about wether or not this topic is old. Ive seen way too many Dumb@$$ scenarios where people say Dooku would beat Mace, even though Mace has Vapaad, so Dooku woulden't even get close to beating him.
I mean, I'd have figured that most Star Wars fans(serious ones) would know what Vapaad was, I mean exactly what it is.
I'ts more than just a fighting style like Juyo, It's a mindset, its a way of perceiving the Force. Mace's Vapaad gives him a significant advantage over most of the Sith Lords in the Star Wars Universe.
(Of course, not Marka Ragnos or Darth Nihlus or Exar Kun. But still, most others would fall to him.)
Well, this is it, hope you don't mind too much.
And Rampant OX I suggest you pull your head out of your rear end and set aside some time to seriously read up on Vapaad. Then you'll be able to make a properly informed desiscion.
Thanks.
Come on. This thread should be in the vs. forum, and it has been argued so many times!!! Anyway, Mace wins. Why? Well even if people say Sidious was only playing with Mace during their duel, there's no source that says that. So, we can declare that Mace is basically the same lv as Palps. However, Palps is definately greater than Dooku. Plus, Dooku is lesser than Anakin, and Anakin is definately weaker than Windu.
BTW, Master Starbuck, calm down 🙂
Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
Come on. This thread should be in the vs. forum, and it has been argued so many times!!! Anyway, Mace wins. Why? Well even if people say Sidious was only playing with Mace during their duel, there's no source that says that. So, we can declare that Mace is basically the same lv as Palps. However, Palps is definately greater than Dooku. Plus, Dooku is lesser than Anakin, and Anakin is definately weaker than Windu.BTW, Master Starbuck, calm down 🙂
To be fair. Palpatine would have won even if Anakin had come in. He could have easily overpowered Mace with the Force.
Ill argue with Sith Lord Windu first. Newb ill get to you later...
Originally posted by Sith Lord Windu
[B]id obviously go with mace but dooku could hold it off for a while. if you take the forms as cannon and apply them to the battle then mace would win as he, as said before, uses vapaad which uses the enmies strengh and the darkside against them, giving mace extra strengh and power. he would win against dooku, why do you think sam played him!
Yes Mace uses Vapaad, but the Count uses Makashi the lightsaber to lightsaber form. Ill agree that Vapaad is easily one of the best forms and is quite apt at duelling but it wasnt made for duelling like Makashi was. (And Christopher Lee is twice the actor Jackson is 😛 )
vapaad is the best of all the forms
Opinion.
(exept maybe niman if it was trained to a very high degree), its the hardest form to learn and noone bothered to learn it because it was so hard to master, only mace was able to stay on the lightside.[quote]Ill agree with that. But just becase it is hard to master doesnt mean it is the best.
[quote]the main effects are that the user can use the enemies anger and hate against then, turning the battle in thier favor.
Correct. But sith like Dooku use Dun möch, which mentally wears down an opponent. It causes the opponent to doubt themself and if all goes well make a mistake. we know that Dooku is a very skilled Dun möch practicioner and we have seen him use it in both movies.
dooku's makashi relies on precise cuts and movements and timings. dooku even noted that a makashi fighter could never match the power generated by djem so users, and since mace was a master of both vapaad and djem so (vapaad uses the same amount of kenetic energy) he would be able to force dooku back.
Sure, Makashi doesnt compete with the kinetice energy of forms like Vappad. But it doesnt have to. Makashi uses parries instead of blocking head on - thus greatly decreasing the amount of effort used. Dooku is a master of the form, he knows how to use it to its full effectiveness and he will know how to properly counter the kinetic energy generated. Also Makashi uses very little energy with precise cuts and thrusts. If he does manage to effectively block Mace's attacks then Mace is going to tire before the Count.
makashi is an elegant form of an arragant user.
😎
the fight would be like dooku vs ani on the invisable hand
Possibly. But it depends if Dooku takes Mace's kinetic energy head on or parries the attacks.
the reson ani and obi lost in ep2 was that they were only skilled at jedi knight level. ep3 shows all thier skills at the peak of the saga.
Whats your point? Dooku still wtf pwned Kenobi while fending off Anakin. But he, nor anyone else can stand up to a fully enraged Anakin.
in dooku's defense, he uses makashi, which relies on precisecuts and perfect timing but he couldn't win. if mace bested palp' in combat, palp' uses more than makashi (eg shii-cho and niman) in the battle, then dooku couldn't win.
Mace vs Palp has nothing to do with the battle at hand.
as for rampant ox, and for that matter any people who are bias,p
Me, biased? Never!! 😛
use common sense and realise mace is stronger than obi-wan, anakin and dooku.
Debatable.
overall, mace would win but dooku would hold out for a while. id personally put it as the same lengh as the invisable hand battle or the ani vs obi battle, and it'd be just as aggressive.
Debatable