Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Oy. Escape I do not agree with you on your listings especially putting Kun in front of Ragnos, Palpatine MAYBE.. But this is your opinion so more power to you.
DS, look. A person who promotes "Ragnos is teh uber!" is like anyone who promotes "Revan is teh uber!". You have nothing to base his power on, save for second hand accounts, and one statement made by an author that applies at that time.
We who say that "Kun and Palpatine are teh uber" have stuff to back us up. You and I both know that you can't give me half of the reasons I can give you for Kun and Palpatine.
So it's best to just drop it until we learn more.
'DS, look. A person who promotes "Ragnos is the uber!" is like anyone who promotes "Revan is the uber!".'
One thing: I consider the sith talismans and artifacts a part of their power. Force power alone - much lower on the list.
'You have nothing to base his power on, save for second hand accounts, and one statement made by an author that applies at that time.'
We can deduce much about him - just look at the older arguments supporting him.
Many of those 'second hand accounts' are pretty accurate and tell us much about him.
We know that he is definitely > Naga Sadow, who has displayed many incredible things.
We can understand the capabilities of his spirit.
We can understand the capabilities of his sceptor.
Originally posted by Escape81
DS, look. A person who promotes "Ragnos is teh uber!" is like anyone who promotes "Revan is teh uber!". You have nothing to base his power on, save for second hand accounts, and one statement made by an author that applies at that time.We who say that "Kun and Palpatine are teh uber" have stuff to back us up. You and I both know that you can't give me half of the reasons I can give you for Kun and Palpatine.
So it's best to just drop it until we learn more.
What can you give me for Kun exactly? I can give you lots of LOGICAL reasons based on deductions on Ragnos and how his power compares with Sidious. But comparing Kun to Ragnos? I'm interested to see your argument on that.
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
What can you give me for Kun exactly? I can give you lots of LOGICAL reasons based on deductions on Ragnos and how his power compares with Sidious. But comparing Kun to Ragnos? I'm interested to see your argument on that.
Perhaps not. As far as spirits are concerned, however, Exar's presented far more of a threat than Ragnos's.
Kun:
- Kun's spirit put a post-DE Luke in a coma.
- Kun's spirit imbued Kyp Durron with the power to raise the Sun Crusher.
- Kun's spirit was powerful enough that Luke's new academy had to merge their powers along with Vodo in order to obliterate him from existence. The other time they did that, they pushed Gilad Pellaeon's fleet of seventeen Imperial-class Star Destroyers entirely out of the Yavin System, which took Pellaeon days to return. It also killed Dorsk-81, the chosen vessel for that power.
Ragnos:
- Battled against an above average Jedi Knight and lost, forcing that spirit to go back into exile.
Now, you can argue that Ragnos's spirit was weakened because of its old age, but Ragnos was only a thousand years older than Kun. That seems like a lot, but considering how Kun's spirit was over four thousand years old - and he still did all that crap - I'm not inclined to believe that another millenium stripped Ragnos of that much power.
As for these logical reasons, you've yet to prove that Ragnos didn't need his almighty scepter. Other than that, we know he's the most powerful of the Ancient Sith.
That's it. I'd definately say that Sidious is superior, and I'd argue that Kun is his equal, at least.
Originally posted by Sith'ari
Surely the sith talismans that Ragnos posseses puts him on Kun's level?
Pray-tell, have you seen these amulets?
As for Ragnos's scepter, as I recall, it doesn't remove the Force from beings. Tavion tried it on me during the last level, and all it did was just knock me down and (as I recall), strip some of my Force 'level', which regenerated nearly instantly.
Originally posted by Escape81
Perhaps not. As far as spirits are concerned, however, Exar's presented far more of a threat than Ragnos's.Kun:
- Kun's spirit put a post-DE Luke in a coma.
Imperial-class Star Destroyers entirely out of the Yavin System, which took Pellaeon days to return. It also killed Dorsk-81, the chosen vessel for that power.
- Kun's spirit imbued Kyp Durron with the power to raise the Sun Crusher.
- Kun's spirit was powerful enough that Luke's new academy had to merge their powers along with Vodo in order to obliterate him from existence. The other time they did that, they pushed Gilad Pellaeon's fleet of [B]seventeenRagnos:
- Battled against an above average Jedi Knight and lost, forcing that spirit to go back into exile.
Now, you can argue that Ragnos's spirit was weakened because of its old age, but Ragnos was only a thousand years older than Kun. That seems like a lot, but considering how Kun's spirit was over four thousand years old - and he still did all that crap - I'm not inclined to believe that another millenium stripped Ragnos of that much power.
As for these logical reasons, you've yet to prove that Ragnos didn't need his almighty scepter. Other than that, we know he's the most powerful of the Ancient Sith.
That's it. I'd definately say that Sidious is superior, and I'd argue that Kun is his equal, at least. [/B]
Ok let me explain a few things. You obviously and conveniently forget that Kun possessed the 2nd most powerful force user in the galaxy, while Ragnos possessed a nobody. There's not much to go with gameplay considering Tavion(although stated that if Ragnos returns he will obliterate the Jedi) is a fallible character in the game. But the point is that the spirits would depend mostly on who they possess. And for all you know, 1,000 years DOES make a difference, it's debateable. Or rather as I'm typing this I figured something important out Escape.
Ragnos was a GHOST spirit, while KUN stripped his BODY and was an undead soul. Meaning Kun did what SIDIOUS did, only on a smaller scale, considering Sidious could travel across the galaxy as a soul. So in the end, I don't know how you are comparing a FORCE SPIRIT that is 5,000 years old, to a 4,000 year old undead soul. I don't know why people don't understand this when comparing Kun to any spirit.
Ok let me explain a few things. You obviously and conveniently forget that Kun possessed the 2nd most powerful force user in the galaxy, while Ragnos possessed a nobody.
The book states that Kun was the power behind Kyp's actions. Also, another indicator is that he is unable to do it after Kun's spirit was destroyed.
There's not much to go with gameplay considering Tavion(although stated that if Ragnos returns he will obliterate the Jedi) is a fallible character in the game. But the point is that the spirits would depend mostly on who they possess. And for all you know, 1,000 years DOES make a difference, it's debateable. Or rather as I'm typing this I figured something important out Escape.
Oh, I see. The first four thousand years didn't mean a damn thing, but that fifth one did? Ooh. Nice logic.
Furthermore, has Tavion seen Ragnos in action either? No she hasn't. She has about as much room as Luke to make claims regarding Ragnos.
Ragnos was a GHOST spirit, while KUN stripped his BODYand was undead soul. Meaning Kun did what SIDIOUS did, only on a smaller scale, considering Sidious could travel across the galaxy as a soul. So in the end, I don't know how you are comparing a FORCE SPIRIT that is 5,000 years old, to a 4,000 year old undead soul. I don't know why people don't understand this when comparing Kun to any spirit.
Because they are essentially the same thing. When Kun's body was removed, he died a physical death, as did Ragnos when he died.
No Escape, they are NOT the same thing. I can argue this all night with you, but the fact remains that what Kun did was unlike what ANYONE else did when they died, save for Palpatine. I don't know if Palpatine got it from Kun or wherever but they essentially both did the same thing, while everyone else died and showed up as force ghosts anywhere. Notice how Kun didn't fully learn the technique or didn't have the full technique which is why he was trapped in the Massassi temple.