Goku v. Superman

Started by jinzin189 pages
Originally posted by Creshosk
Until it's proven, it's still just hyperbole.

we don't learn everything from empirical knowledge.. we have to apply rational thought too... piccolo at a measly 3,000 pl destroys a moon... frieza at 500,000 blows up a planet with his fingertip... characters who ascend into the millions well... it simply stands to reason my friend...

Originally posted by Creshosk
I'm well aware that you are trying, but Movies simply aren't cannon. Or could I use a theoretical Superman? Since Prime technically isn't actual cannon, as Superman hasn't BEEN prime. . .

it's not really the events that concern me.. it's what he demonstrates he can do... if he can apply it to the fight (and I see no reason why not) than it matters not whether it's canon or isn't....

goku's displayed ability to use kioken in the series.. and he's described his IT as being a movement at an amount equivalent to XXX times light speed (don't know off the top of my head).

Originally posted by Creshosk
Hmm. . . This means that Superman will win in the long run even if he doesn't anihilate Goku right away. *points lazily to Magog war scans*

it really depends.. can goku take him out before he wears down? and lets not forget that DBZ guys fight for days at a time...

seriously in supes/bats number 3 they were about to get taken down by a large group of assorted villains.. and both conceded defeat like it was truly "the end" I have no doubts that goku would have dispatched the entirety of that superwillian mob in mere seconds on his own...

Originally posted by Creshosk
Yeah, but only up enough to beat the character and only to a point. Once the Buus came along that was pretty much it. . couldn't beat buu in ssj2 or ssj3. . the power amp was insufficient. . . So no, it doesn't appear to be billions or whatever. . . enhanced.

they where beating buu just fine.. they couldn't defeat him because he kept reforming and didn't wear down like they did...

and yes it does appear to be billions enhanced.. there's numerous times akira has at least asserted the increase to be in the millions range.. which is what a lot of fan sites base their power ratings off of...

what I don't get here is this... it's not reasonable to assume that dbz characters can blow up a solar system even though they claim to have.. when other characters at 10% or lesser of that same power have taken out planets with the bare minimum of their own power..

YET it IS reasonable to assume that a pointy rock was going to do anything to goku when swords shatter on lesser characters.. and he deflects a sword with his fingertip? 🤨

where's the rationale there?

we don't learn everything from empirical knowledge.. we have to apply rational thought too... piccolo at a measly 3,000 pl destroys a moon... frieza at 500,000 blows up a planet with his fingertip... characters who ascend into the millions well... it simply stands to reason my friend...

Question: Where is this "millions" figure coming from? Anything after DBZ is simply not canon. It's all BS.

Secondly, Piccolo blew up the moon with a charged shot. Frieza hit a planet's core with a focused beam (literally, the beam's name implies it can cut through most anything) which ended up in the planet breaking up. Then... Frieza was killed in a planetary explosion. Ooo. Owned. Superman can survive those. He can survive in the vacuum of space, in the core of a sun, etc. I don't think you realize just how durable that is... I pointed out before how much damage (in megatons, etc.) a planet killing (Not destroying) meteor unleashes in its impact. Superman has taken blasts that do this amount of damage in scientific notation and survived relatively unscathed. This isn't shooting the core with a focused beam, or blowing up a hollow piece of rock barely a fraction of the size of earth... This is force tremendous enough to destroy a planet entirely. Top this off with Supes' pushing planets around and slugging it out for days with Doomsday who by himself can destroy most of Impereix's probes.... This is well above DBZ feats.


it's not really the events that concern me.. it's what he demonstrates he can do... if he can apply it to the fight (and I see no reason why not) than it matters not whether it's canon or isn't....

Actually, it does matter if it's canon or not. Otherwise, we can just unleash pre-crises Supes on you, Superman Prime, Superman Red and Blue, etc. It's ownage all the way around. If you want to play fair and use only canon sources (For us that would be post-crises Supes) Goku still gets owned.


goku's displayed ability to use kioken in the series.. and he's described his IT as being a movement at an amount equivalent to XXX times light speed (don't know off the top of my head).

Nice. Goku never uses the Kaioken after learning to become Super Saiyin because it damages his body at an accelerated rate. The only other time he used it post-SSJ was in the GT series, and even then for a very small time. If Goku were to envoke Kaioken and power up, Supes would just whallop his ass and break his concentration, probably kill him.

Second, IT requires two things : concentration and the time it takes to put his two fingers to his forehead. Oops. Supes bats him away. So much for IT.


it really depends.. can goku take him out before he wears down? and lets not forget that DBZ guys fight for days at a time...

So does Superman. Superman fought Doomsday for days... and Doomsday could wipe his ass with DBZ characters.


seriously in supes/bats number 3 they were about to get taken down by a large group of assorted villains.. and both conceded defeat like it was truly "the end" I have no doubts that goku would have dispatched the entirety of that superwillian mob in mere seconds on his own...

Uh huh. This is "IMO" logic combined with one comic source... roight. Might I remind you that Goku got his ass handed to him by a weak version of Buu after undergoing a process that puts a lengthy time of training into one day.


they where beating buu just fine.. they couldn't defeat him because he kept reforming and didn't wear down like they did...

They were? Vegeta did a self-scraficing move that was literally ridiculous and it maybe stopped Buu for a few seconds. Meanwhile, everyone got their asses handed to them by Buu, except Gohan who had more potential power than Goku (Who in turn aided Gohan) in creating a beam powerful enough to destroy Buu.


and yes it does appear to be billions enhanced.. there's numerous times akira has at least asserted the increase to be in the millions range.. which is what a lot of fan sites base their power ratings off of...

Really? Highest power rating I have seen was in the Frieza saga, topped off at one million. This was SSJ, I believe. And mind you, SSJ Goku can't use his most powerful attack, the Spirit Bomb, because it requires a pure heart and SSJ is inherently evil. So if you want to chuck around power levels of higher than one million, show instances, cite proof, and do something more than just hearsay, please.


what I don't get here is this... it's not reasonable to assume that dbz characters can blow up a solar system even though they claim to have.. when other characters at 10% or lesser of that same power have taken out planets with the bare minimum of their own power..

No, it's not reasonable to -assume- that DBZ characters can blow up star systems when they haven't ever shown the ability and when they talk of it, it's almost certainly chuff.


YET it IS reasonable to assume that a pointy rock was going to do anything to goku when swords shatter on lesser characters.. and he deflects a sword with his fingertip? 🤨

Well, Vegeta pushing Goku onto that rock probably would have pierced his body, since it had the force of a pissed off Vegeta behind it. Bet you didn't take that into account. As for the sword, I recall it was enchanted. And it broke, too. Anyways...


where's the rationale there?

In your post? no clue.

we don't learn everything from empirical knowledge.. we have to apply rational thought too... piccolo at a measly 3,000 pl destroys a moon... frieza at 500,000 blows up a planet with his fingertip... characters who ascend into the millions well... it simply stands to reason my friend...

Right, Frieza at 500,000 blows up a planet with his fingertip. Yet when he fights SSJ Goku at his full power, somehow, NONE of their combined attacks end up instantly destroying the planet (the planet later was destroyed because it became too volcanic). Are you telling me that none of Frieza's or Goku's attacks at full power just happened to glance off the planet and instantly destroy it like Frieza did at 500,000?

That just screams that the initial destruction is not necessarily an indicative feat.

it's not really the events that concern me.. it's what he demonstrates he can do... if he can apply it to the fight (and I see no reason why not) than it matters not whether it's canon or isn't....

goku's displayed ability to use kioken in the series.. and he's described his IT as being a movement at an amount equivalent to XXX times light speed (don't know off the top of my head).

Movement equivalent to whatever times past light doesn't matter. Because anything at that speed wouldn't be able to hit anything else at that speed. They simply can't see each other. Period.

Great fight there, Supes finally gets tired of cat and mouse and decides to push the planet into the sun, he wins.

it really depends.. can goku take him out before he wears down? and lets not forget that DBZ guys fight for days at a time...

Supes has fought for days on end before, even at cosmic levels, which Goku has never done.

seriously in supes/bats number 3 they were about to get taken down by a large group of assorted villains.. and both conceded defeat like it was truly "the end" I have no doubts that goku would have dispatched the entirety of that superwillian mob in mere seconds on his own...

You "have no doubt"? Too bad that's not exactly admissable.

they where beating buu just fine.. they couldn't defeat him because he kept reforming and didn't wear down like they did...

And Supes has shown to be more durable than Buu. He has plenty of stamina too, so what makes you believe they could simply beat him down?

What makes you believe any of Goku's Ki attacks would even work on Supes if he simply phased THROUGH Doomsday's attack?

and yes it does appear to be billions enhanced.. there's numerous times akira has at least asserted the increase to be in the millions range.. which is what a lot of fan sites base their power ratings off of...

And yet, no one has yet been able to destroy the planet earth with a fingertip, like you attempt to imply they can.

Even when they go all out in battle, it's still the same 4 combat animations playing at similar speeds as much earlier in the series. That's your example of slowed-down cinematography, and completely trumps your "Superman doesn't fight fast" theory.

what I don't get here is this... it's not reasonable to assume that dbz characters can blow up a solar system even though they claim to have.. when other characters at 10% or lesser of that same power have taken out planets with the bare minimum of their own power..

Hearsay and Hyperbole. They'll have to be able to destroy the Earth without hitting a weakspot first. And no one in the DBZ saga has come close to destroying a sun.

If you want to bring in DBGT Goku, the Supes supporters could simply reference when Pre-Crisis Supes froze a Sun with his ice breath.

YET it IS reasonable to assume that a pointy rock was going to do anything to goku when swords shatter on lesser characters.. and he deflects a sword with his fingertip?

Supes has survived solar blasts, nuke explosions, hits from cosmic level entities, double-black holes, ass-kickings like no tomorrow, and it's reasonable to assume that Goku will somehow be able to outslug him?

Where's the rational in that?

Superman and Goku both bow to ED

http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=ed_salinas

I'm going to be nice to you and use post-crisis superman for you.

Originally posted by jinzin
we don't learn everything from empirical knowledge.. we have to apply rational thought too... piccolo at a measly 3,000 pl destroys a moon... frieza at 500,000 blows up a planet with his fingertip... characters who ascend into the millions well... it simply stands to reason my friend...
Empirical knowlegde is what is used in a debate, not hyperbole.

Originally posted by jinzin
it's not really the events that concern me.. it's what he demonstrates he can do... if he can apply it to the fight (and I see no reason why not) than it matters not whether it's canon or isn't....
Because if he cant' do it in a fight (cannon) then we shouldn't allow it when he can. (non-cannon)

War Wolverine can kill Apocalypse, Magneto and even Juggernaut, Should we allow cannon wolverine the same abilities?

Originally posted by jinzin
goku's displayed ability to use kioken in the series.. and he's described his IT as being a movement at an amount equivalent to XXX times light speed (don't know off the top of my head).
Teleportation.

Originally posted by jinzin
it really depends.. can goku take him out before he wears down? and lets not forget that DBZ guys fight for days at a time...
And?

That's like pointing out DBZ guys can destory planets when Superman survives greater that destroyed planets..

Originally posted by jinzin
seriously in supes/bats number 3 they were about to get taken down by a large group of assorted villains.. and both conceded defeat like it was truly "the end" I have no doubts that goku would have dispatched the entirety of that superwillian mob in mere seconds on his own.../[quote] 🙄

[QUOTE=5182056]Originally posted by jinzin
they where beating buu just fine.. they couldn't defeat him because he kept reforming and didn't wear down like they did.../[quote] So buu, much like Wolverine had greater durability? Great. . .

So can you prove that Goku is up to par of beating superman?

and yes it does appear to be billions enhanced.. there's numerous times akira has at least asserted the increase to be in the millions range.. which is what a lot of fan sites base their power ratings off of...

[QUOTE=5182056]Originally posted by jinzin
what I don't get here is this... it's not reasonable to assume that dbz characters can blow up a solar system even though they claim to have..

claims in order to intimidate is trash talk.

Originally posted by jinzin
when other characters at 10% or lesser of that same power have taken out planets with the bare minimum of their own power..
supposedly.

Originally posted by jinzin
YET it IS reasonable to assume that a pointy rock was going to do anything to goku when swords shatter on lesser characters.
I was fighting Twister with his own "lety's glorify the weak showings because I can't provide any strong showings, so I need to lower the opponent." twistered logic. Which I rolled my eyes at when you did it.

Originally posted by jinzin
. and he deflects a sword with his fingertip? 🤨

where's the rationale there?

Damn. I think he'll need a whole day just to reply.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Empirical knowlegde is what is used in a debate, not hyperbole.

again.. we also need some rational thought to make inferences..

it's not a hypobole because of the consistency of said feats...

Originally posted by Creshosk
Because if he cant' do it in a fight (cannon) then we shouldn't allow it when he can. (non-cannon)

who's to say he can't do it in a fight?

Originally posted by Creshosk
Teleportation.

fast movement..

Originally posted by Creshosk
I was fighting Twister with his own "lety's glorify the weak showings because I can't provide any strong showings, so I need to lower the opponent." twistered logic. Which I rolled my eyes at when you did it.

that's exactly what's going on here to goku.. nothing presented has shown superman to fight faster than goku... nothing.. yet the pics that support him are used under the assumption that they do.... every strong goku feat is simply stated to not show that he has x amount of power over superman simply.. because..

again DBZ guys take planet busting blasts but they can't take a superman punch? I don't quite follow that logic......

Originally posted by jinzin
again.. we also need some rational thought to make inferences..

it's not a hypobole because of the consistency of said feats...

Nope, nothing really to gauge, just the formula of bigger bad guy, train up to beat, repeat.

Originally posted by jinzin
who's to say he can't do it in a fight?[/]b/[]quote] And who's to say taht Superman can't suddenly use IT or shoot ki blasts?

[QUOTE=5184683]Originally posted by jinzin
[B]fast movement..[/]b

Teleportation, No matter how much you say otherwise, cannon that's all it's been used for.

Originally posted by jinzin
[B]that's exactly what's going on here to goku.. nothing presented has shown superman to fight faster than goku[/]b/[]quote] Superman moving at greater than the speed of light obviously doesn't fight as fat. . .did you look at the scans? There are scans where he's fighting fast.

Escape velocity, double black hole?

[QUOTE=5184683]Originally posted by jinzin
[B]... nothing.. yet the pics that support him are used under the assumption that they do....

So scans that are presented don't support the character? That's not something I thought you'd stoop to.

Originally posted by jinzin
every strong goku feat is simply stated to not show that he has x amount of power over superman simply.. because..
Because the feats don't show a comparitive level.

"It's like here's some one who knocks down mountains!"

"Oh yeah? well here's some one who knocks down trees with ease!"

Mountian>Tree
Blackhole>planet

Originally posted by jinzin
again DBZ guys take planet busting blasts but they can't take a superman punch? I don't quite follow that logic......
Superman>Blackhole

And no, they don't just take planet busting shots. When we see the planet busting shots, they don't tend to survive.

Hell, Vegeta self destructed releasing ALL of his energy. . and the planet was fine. . .

Majin Vegeta > Cell
Planet >Majin Vegeta

*points to top claims of consistency.* HYPERBOLE.

Originally posted by Illustrious
Right, Frieza at 500,000 blows up a planet with his fingertip. Yet when he fights SSJ Goku at his full power, somehow, NONE of their combined attacks end up instantly destroying the planet (the planet later was destroyed because it became too volcanic). Are you telling me that none of Frieza's or Goku's attacks at full power just happened to glance off the planet and instantly destroy it like Frieza did at 500,000?

i'm saying that in terms of destructive capabilities, DBZ guys have proven to be able to have the power that I've claimed.. if you watch the show/read the manga you know that.. to argue otherwise is to underestimate and miminize the power they have proven to have..
basically arguing how you think the characters should be...

a perfect example of how powerful dbz characters get is when frieza bulks up to 100% and simple (literally) specks of energy are hitting the ground causing enormous eruptions to take place.. specs are doing this with no concious effort involved..

Originally posted by Illustrious
Movement equivalent to whatever times past light doesn't matter. Because anything at that speed wouldn't be able to hit anything else at that speed. They simply can't see each other. Period.

then they can't see eachother... i'll give the edge to the guy who can fell his opponent in that case.. Goku.

Originally posted by Illustrious
Great fight there, Supes finally gets tired of cat and mouse and decides to push the planet into the sun, he wins.

perhaps.. i'm not arguing that he would even lose.. but if that's how he has to win it's practically by plot device.. though I doubt goku would simply let him do it..

Originally posted by Illustrious
Supes has fought for days on end before, even at cosmic levels, which Goku has never done.

when had he done this?

Originally posted by Illustrious
[b]You "have no doubt"? Too bad that's not exactly admissable..[/B]

maybe we should make another thread goku vs. (list of villains here)...

considering gohan (not even powered up) backed down an entire group of older powerful villains I don't really think it will be much of a fight for goku though.. 🙁

Originally posted by Illustrious
[b]YouAnd Supes has shown to be more durable than Buu. He has plenty of stamina too, so what makes you believe they could simply beat him down?[/B]

buu isn't exactly noted for his durability.. he wasn't all that durable at all in fact.. but his stamina and regenerative properties made him almost impossible to beat. and they were beating him down.. just look for yourself.. but once again.. they were getting worn down as well.. and he wasn't simple as...

Originally posted by Illustrious
[b]YouWhat makes you believe any of Goku's Ki attacks would even work on Supes if he simply phased THROUGH Doomsday's attack?[/B]

area wide attack.. can't phase through that.. it's a logical impossibility like a wall being all red and all white at the same time..

Originally posted by Illustrious
[b]YouAnd yet, no one has yet been able to destroy the planet earth with a fingertip, like you attempt to imply they can.[/B]

frieza did it.. so i don't know what the hell you're talking about...

Originally posted by Illustrious
[b]YouEven when they go all out in battle, it's still the same 4 combat animations playing at similar speeds as much earlier in the series. That's your example of slowed-down cinematography, and completely trumps your "Superman doesn't fight fast" theory.[/B]

okay so your basing your argument on animation and not what they have done? 🤨

Originally posted by Illustrious
[b]YouHearsay and Hyperbole. They'll have to be able to destroy the Earth without hitting a weakspot first. And no one in the DBZ saga has come close to destroying a sun.[/B]

no one's tried to my knowledge... frieza form 1 destroying planet vegeta is not hearsay nor hyperbole..

Originally posted by Illustrious
[b]YouIf you want to bring in DBGT Goku, the Supes supporters could simply reference when Pre-Crisis Supes froze a Sun with his ice breath.[/B]
i haven't brought gt goku into this yet.. but we certainly can if you want...

Originally posted by Illustrious
Supes has survived solar blasts, nuke explosions, hits from cosmic level entities, double-black holes, ass-kickings like no tomorrow, and it's reasonable to assume that Goku will somehow be able to outslug him?

Where's the rational in that?

not an argument i've been making....

Originally posted by Creshosk
Nope, nothing really to gauge, just the formula of bigger bad guy, train up to beat, repeat.

if one badguy at a lowlevel can take out a planet.. than another guy that makes 1st guy completely 100% ineffective in battle can do more damage.. and so on and so on...

Originally posted by Creshosk
Teleportation, No matter how much you say otherwise, cannon that's all it's been used for.
it's not my claim.. goku's literally said it's moving at xxx times the speed of light.. now you're not allowing feats and evidence to have any validity for what a character can or can not do?

Originally posted by Creshosk
So scans that are presented don't support the character? That's not something I thought you'd stoop to.

not at all what i said.. you're misunderstanding me completely... and the fact that you jumped to such a conclusion is very dissapointing...

what i've said is that superman hasn't been shown and can not be proven to FIGHT faster than goku.. whih is true.. and vica versa....

his flight speed obviously speaks for itself though.. I'm not debating that he can fly out of a black hole, nor neglecting the feat.. but this feat doesn't show supes to be fighting faster than goku and to that end i was correct..

Originally posted by Creshosk
Because the feats don't show a comparitive level.

"It's like here's some one who knocks down mountains!"

"Oh yeah? well here's some one who knocks down trees with ease!"

Mountian>Tree
Blackhole>planet

Superman>Blackhole

addmittedly, I'm not even sure what exactly you're getting at here..

blowing up a planet with (literally) less than one percent of one's own power is in my mind a pretty DAMNED comparitive feat.. if you're simply going to ignore it than what's the use of this debate?

Originally posted by Creshosk
And no, they don't just take planet busting shots. When we see the planet busting shots, they don't tend to survive.

yes they do.. even a cut in quarters and badly beaten frieza who was physically exhausted survived the explosion of planet namek..

saiyans don't tend to survive because they need an atmosphere to live in...

Originally posted by Creshosk
Hell, Vegeta self destructed releasing ALL of his energy. . and the planet was fine. . .

Majin Vegeta > Cell
Planet >Majin Vegeta

*points to top claims of consistency.* HYPERBOLE.

you're downgrading the feat by misunderstanding it... vegeta used a concentrated explosion to blow buu apart.. the key word there is concentrated... you can't automatically assume he wasn't doing that because it goes in direct contrast with what he was trying to do.. which was save the world.. what would be the poit of purposefully blowing up the planet he's trying to protect?

i think a HUGE point you guys are neglecting is that dbz characters can blow the shit out of things like planets and moons etc when they want to... but they tend to concentrate their energy to destroy their foe alone since blowing up the planet they are on would kill them as well...

Originally posted by jinzin
maybe we should make another thread goku vs. (list of villains here)...

I'd love to see Goku vs characters like:

Doomsday
Eradicator
Cyborg
GL Hal, Kyle, or John
Asmodel
Imperiex
Darkseid
Orion
Proteus
Thor (DC or Marvel)

All characters who would beat Goku fairly easily.

and all characters who incidently have either beaten or stalemated supes rather easily as well...

i dont think thor could take goku

Originally posted by jinzin
if one badguy at a lowlevel can take out a planet.. than another guy that makes 1st guy completely 100% ineffective in battle can do more damage.. and so on and so on...
And we still are never treated to a visual to prove that they aren't just full of hot air.

Originally posted by jinzin
it's not my claim.. goku's literally said it's moving at xxx times the speed of light.. now you're not allowing feats and evidence to have any validity for what a character can or can not do?
As I said all we ever see it used for is teleportation in cannon.

Originally posted by jinzin
not at all what i said.. you're misunderstanding me completely... and the fact that you jumped to such a conclusion is very dissapointing...

what i've said is that superman hasn't been shown and can not be proven to FIGHT faster than goku.. whih is true.. and vica versa....

his flight speed obviously speaks for itself though.. I'm not debating that he can fly out of a black hole, nor neglecting the feat.. but this feat doesn't show supes to be fighting faster than goku and to that end i was correct..

And the scans everyone ignores of Superman fighting fast?

So wait, Superman flies fast out of a blackhole, but this isn't evidence ofSuperman using this sort of speed to fight fast, and yet Goku's IT is never seen used to fight fast and yet it is?

That is truly a double standard.

Originally posted by jinzin
addmittedly, I'm not even sure what exactly you're getting at here..

blowing up a planet with (literally) less than one percent of one's own power is in my mind a pretty DAMNED comparitive feat.. if you're simply going to ignore it than what's the use of this debate?

Because it doesn't really give an idea of what they can do. Cause guess what? Superman survives things that destroy plsnets with ease, with ease.

A black hole destroys planets easily, Superman survives it just fine.

So you have to show that level of power. You're trying to say that planet destroying power is sufficient. when obviously it's not.

Originally posted by jinzin
yes they do.. even a cut in quarters and badly beaten frieza who was physically exhausted survived the explosion of planet namek..
And Goku didn't survive Cell's self destruct, and vegeta's self destruct didn't destroy Earth.

Originally posted by jinzin
saiyans don't tend to survive because they need an atmosphere to live in...
and they tend to die when hit by the initial blast as well.

Originally posted by jinzin
you're downgrading the feat by misunderstanding it... vegeta used a concentrated explosion to blow buu apart.. the key word there is concentrated... you can't automatically assume he wasn't doing that because it goes in direct contrast with what he was trying to do.. which was save the world.. what would be the poit of purposefully blowing up the planet he's trying to protect?
Soo all that consentrated energy amounts to a grand canyon, and that's it? Seriously, he created a giant crater and that's it. The planet he was on, when he released ALL of his energy was just fine. This stunt should have wiped out the solar system if your hyperbole was true.

Originally posted by jinzin
i think a HUGE point you guys are neglecting is that dbz characters can blow the shit out of things like planets and moons etc when they want to... but they tend to concentrate their energy to destroy their foe alone since blowing up the planet they are on would kill them as well...
And yet omnidirectional blasts like self destruct attacks, don't destroy the Earth in vegeta's case, and killed Goku in Cell's case.

Pretty impossible for me to belive they take planet destroying blasts when they don't.

Originally posted by jinzin
and all characters who incidently have either beaten or stalemated supes rather easily as well...

So superman = those characters > Goku. . .

What does that tell you?

I'm curious... Whyw as my post overlooked?

Obviously because you put some stuff they couldn't respond to, Deus.

Originally posted by Deus Ex
I'm curious... Whyw as my post overlooked?

goku's displayed ability to use kioken in the series.. and he's described his IT as being a movement at an amount equivalent to XXX times light speed (don't know off the top of my head).

"Nice. Goku never uses the Kaioken after learning to become Super Saiyin because it damages his body at an accelerated rate. The only other time he used it post-SSJ was in the GT series, and even then for a very small time. If Goku were to envoke Kaioken and power up, Supes would just whallop his ass and break his concentration, probably kill him."

Your post was over looked because you have no idea what your talking about. Goku did use the Kaioken when he fought Pikkon, in the other world Tournament. Which happend to be in DBZ. Get your facts straight before you bring something up.

Originally posted by Darth Macabre
goku's displayed ability to use kioken in the series.. and he's described his IT as being a movement at an amount equivalent to XXX times light speed (don't know off the top of my head).

"Nice. Goku never uses the Kaioken after learning to become Super Saiyin because it damages his body at an accelerated rate. The only other time he used it post-SSJ was in the GT series, and even then for a very small time. If Goku were to envoke Kaioken and power up, Supes would just whallop his ass and break his concentration, probably kill him."

Your post was over looked because you have no idea what your talking about. Goku did use the Kaioken when he fought Pikkon, in the other world Tournament. Which happend to be in DBZ. Get your facts straight before you bring something up.

Excuse me, do you have something to add, or are you here to piss and moan?

What's matter cant handle that your wrong or something? And I believe i did add something already. In case you didnt notice, I said Goku can, and has used the Kaioken in SSJ mode, so your whole come back thing is mute.