Goku v. Superman

Started by Dragoncloud189 pages
Dragoncloud Death to Smoochie!

Originally posted by dvampire
We're talking about Comic book version of Superman (current) and Goku from the manga or anime, not the video game versions of either.
But both characters appear in the game, and this IS a video games versus forum, which means that we are kinda locked into either referring to the games or defying forum rules and regulations. in either case, I personally think that DC just kept making superman stronger like that because they were too senseless to imagine something more original than than every other other superhero that they created and so they blended together all of them into one to make this "SUPER GOD MAN" as we should call him. I'm a superman fan as well, but i don't like how DC continues to alter the original concept of superman.
Originally posted by bean_machine
Well a Pre Crisis Darkseid = Galactus.
Stan Lee said so.
The Omega Beams would make toast out of Frieza and Goku.
Can Goku take on Galactus?.
Thanos and Sentry are both above Supes so Goku could never own them ever.
No never not even imaginable.

note of observation 1: how would Stan Lee know? he's a marvel comic editor and artist. He writes dialog and storyboarding for them, not DC, which is Supes comic home.

note 2: how big are these omega beams exactly? I mean if it was too overly sized then the power must be a bit more spread out, so even frieza finger beam would be more focused and carry more force than this omega beam, wouldn't it?

note 3:we're talking about goku after he gets his tail back, so this is LONG after his fight with frieza, infact, this would be sometime duing GT's storyline since goku NEVER had his tail in DBZ.

theobvious Moment of Truth

Someone made an excellent point earlier about Superman's Double Black Hole feat. The point was Supes doesn't have powers on Krypton b/c of the gravity is 50-100 times greater than Earth's. But yet he can go through a DBH even though they have INFINITE GRAVITY. AND DBZ people train higher than that with Vegeta at 1000X Earth's gravity. This means that while DBZ is overpowered in the Energy Beam aspect, it is underpowered in the physical strenght aspect.

bean_machine Its so hard

"His main power is the Omega Beam or Omega Effect, which is fired from his eyes. The Omega Effect is not only a powerful attack, but can teleport the target anywhere Darkseid chooses, erase the target from existence instantly and can then restore the target if he chooses. The Omega Effect is not limited to traveling in straight lines, able to bend or twist as needed. It can traverse time and different universes, and go through some barriers such as Orion's body."

EkinEku Senior Member

I read on another site on darksieds original concept he can hold planets in his mind and teleport and can fly & a bunch of other crazy shit

Dragoncloud Death to Smoochie!

Originally posted by theobvious
Someone made an excellent point earlier about Superman's Double Black Hole feat. The point was Supes doesn't have powers on Krypton b/c of the gravity is 50-100 times greater than Earth's. But yet he can go through a DBH even though they have INFINITE GRAVITY. AND DBZ people train higher than that with Vegeta at 1000X Earth's gravity. This means that while DBZ is overpowered in the Energy Beam aspect, it is underpowered in the physical strenght aspect.
wait, so he has no powers when on krypton because it has 50-100 times earth gravity, yet he can fly though a double black hole? you sure that's right? that sounds like the original supes, but that one couldn't get through a black hole.

Originally posted by bean_machine
"His main power is the Omega Beam or Omega Effect, which is fired from his eyes. The Omega Effect is not only a powerful attack, but can teleport the target anywhere Darkseid chooses, erase the target from existence instantly and can then restore the target if he chooses. The Omega Effect is not limited to traveling in straight lines, able to bend or twist as needed. It can traverse time and different universes, and go through some barriers such as Orion's body."
Sounds like classic noobish god moding to me. Sorry but unless that particular technique has some kind of weakness, it sounds like one of those "I'm a spoiled brat and i want all kinds of super powers that make me invicible" kind of moves. I mean the omega beam sounds cool and all except for the fact that it can bend and twist AS NEEDED! which unless there's details that you've left out, then that means it can shoot straight, curve backwards at an 18 degree angle or less, and continue to zig zag around without touching anything until it hits it's target. Now that sounds all nice and fine to me IF the move didn't instantly erase the target from existance. If it were something like yamcha's spirit ball where it had a time limit, or wasn't very powerful, or drained so much energy that the user practically couldn't fight anymore for quite some time after it's use, that would be logically fine. However we're trying to talk about a move that is supposed to be UNBEATABLE by an already extremely powerful character, making that particular concept a bit too unfeasibly unrealistic. I know this is fantasy but you have to have some kind of since of logic or realism in it for the reader to really feel connected with it.

1021kid Junior Member

let this forum chair

Galvaclaw Senior Member
wait, so he has no powers when on krypton because it has 50-100 times earth gravity, yet he can fly though a double black hole? you sure that's right? that sounds like the original supes, but that one couldn't get through a black hole.

I thought the estimate based on Kryton's size was 20 times Earth's gravity. Though how high the gravity is, is not important. Krytonian's draw energy from sunlight, hyper metabolising it to power them selves. they don't have powers on Krypton because it has a red sun, which cannot be used by them.

Sounds like classic noobish god moding to me. Sorry but unless that particular technique has some kind of weakness, it sounds like one of those "I'm a spoiled brat and i want all kinds of super powers that make me invicible" kind of moves. I mean the omega beam sounds cool and all except for the fact that it can bend and twist AS NEEDED! which unless there's details that you've left out, then that means it can shoot straight, curve backwards at an 18 degree angle or less, and continue to zig zag around without touching anything until it hits it's target. Now that sounds all nice and fine to me IF the move didn't instantly erase the target from existance. If it were something like yamcha's spirit ball where it had a time limit, or wasn't very powerful, or drained so much energy that the user practically couldn't fight anymore for quite some time after it's use, that would be logically fine. However we're trying to talk about a move that is supposed to be UNBEATABLE by an already extremely powerful character, making that particular concept a bit too unfeasibly unrealistic. I know this is fantasy but you have to have some kind of since of logic or realism in it for the reader to really feel connected with it.

That's the whole point of Darkseid. He's not suppsosed to fair. He's supposed to be a really powerful villain. The omega effect does have weaknesses. It can only be fired so many times before it cannot be used for while. As it follows people it can also be turned back against Darkseid. Superman did this in their first Post crisis meeting. Also it doesn't work against people protected by the source and Wonderwoman's bracelets for some reason.

EkinEku Senior Member

her bracelets are empowered by the gods, which is why i dont think cap marvel would be instantly destroyed by them either.

theobvious Moment of Truth

Originally posted by Dragoncloud
wait, so he has no powers when on krypton because it has 50-100 times earth gravity, yet he can fly though a double black hole? you sure that's right? that sounds like the original supes, but that one couldn't get through a black hole.

i believe it was Jinzin that made the point i just restated it.

Jabba the Hutt Out of my element

Yeah so, Gouku is pretty good at dodging stuff..

Blaxican Style Restricted

edit

bean_machine Its so hard
Originally posted by Galvaclaw
As it follows people it can also be turned back against Darkseid. Superman did this in their first Post crisis meeting. Also it doesn't work against people protected by the source and Wonderwoman's bracelets for some reason.

Well PC Darkseid is tha man he is supposed to be a god. This means uber powerfulness that cannot be defeated, by conventional means and only by someonw who is even more powerful.

I mean this guy made the souce feel pain and saw past it. Who else can do that?

Superman_045 Restricted
Originally posted by EkinEku
so you're saying freeza couldnt take on darkseid or the hulk? lol

Strength wise Darkseid is as strong as Superman so yes, he can beat Frieza. Frieza does have a chance of beating the Hulk though.

EkinEku Senior Member

so you're saying frieza is no match for superman? lol hulk is more in league with say spiderman and thor, or bane. & I'm sure frieza could obliterate all of those ppl.

bean_machine Its so hard
Originally posted by EkinEku
so you're saying frieza is no match for superman? lol hulk is more in league with say spiderman and thor, or bane. & I'm sure frieza could obliterate all of those ppl.

Umm without IT, frieza is much too slow for Supes. Superman is too much for frieza to handle.

Superman_045 Restricted
Originally posted by EkinEku
so you're saying frieza is no match for superman? lol hulk is more in league with say spiderman and thor, or bane. & I'm sure frieza could obliterate all of those ppl.

Let me put this ignorant poster in check. The Hulk can lift 100 tons for his base strength & when he gets mad he can get MUCH stronger. Spiderman can only lift 10 tons & Bane can't even lift tons so the Hulk is WAY stronger than them. Also, Thor is a match for Superman & he would obliterate Frieza. DBZ characters struggle to lift something as simple as 10 tons & Goku thought that it was impossible to lift 10 tons & had to turn Super Saiyan to lift 40 tons (yes, this was in the manga). Energy wise, Goku is superb but physically, he's weak as hell.

bean_machine Its so hard
Originally posted by EkinEku
so you're saying frieza is no match for superman? lol hulk is more in league with say spiderman and thor, or bane. & I'm sure frieza could obliterate all of those ppl.

Hahahahahahaha, I missed that Thor was in the list. Thor is so much greater than Frieza and also above Superman. You get RKT and put him in the DBZ world and you would get a saiyan bloodbath.

Dragoncloud Death to Smoochie!

Originally posted by bean_machine
Umm without IT, frieza is much too slow for Supes. Superman is too much for frieza to handle.
I agree with you there, frieza is way too slow to beat supes, but we're talking long after frieza for goku. now i don't know if supersaiyan 3 or even 4 since goku has his tail and therefor this must be either during or after gt, in either case it would have to be after his battle with Baby, meaning he CAN go SS4. I don't know how much of a difference that would make, but it would still make the match a bit more interesting.

Originally posted by Superman_045
Let me put this ignorant poster in check. The Hulk can lift 100 tons for his base strength & when he gets mad he can get MUCH stronger. Spiderman can only lift 10 tons & Bane can't even lift tons so the Hulk is WAY stronger than them. Also, Thor is a match for Superman & he would obliterate Frieza. DBZ characters struggle to lift something as simple as 10 tons & Goku thought that it was impossible to lift 10 tons & had to turn Super Saiyan to lift 40 tons (yes, this was in the manga). Energy wise, Goku is superb but physically, he's weak as hell.
Yes but goku, didn't have his tail, apparently (judging by the first post of this thread) goku has his tail in this match that we're talking about, which also raises his strength physically and make SS4 possible, which will heighten the ammount for him to lift by quite a bit. And exactly where in the manga does it say that goku thought it was impossible to lift 10 tons? he moaned and groaned about it because he was lazy, he might have actually thought it was impossible rather early on in the series.

But physical strength aside, there are many more things than just physical power that decide the outcome of a fight, i mean my god, batman proved that to us all a thousand times or more. Even Batman succeeded in outdoing superman once or twice once he found out that superman was weakened by kryptonite, and this is batman who would get physically pwned by any and all of these guys that we're talking about.

Originally posted by bean_machine
Hahahahahahaha, I missed that Thor was in the list. Thor is so much greater than Frieza and also above Superman. You get RKT and put him in the DBZ world and you would get a saiyan bloodbath.
RKT? for some reason that doesn't sound familiar, but since you referred to thor i assume that a nickname for him? Now i don't know much about thor so i don't know

And what happened to you believing superman to be invincible and unbeatable and having no weakness? how can you say that thor is above supes?

bean_machine Its so hard

Originally posted by Dragoncloud
RKT? for some reason that doesn't sound familiar, but since you referred to thor i assume that a nickname for him? Now i don't know much about thor so i don't know

And what happened to you believing superman to be invincible and unbeatable and having no weakness? how can you say that thor is above supes?

RKT is Rune King Thor. He is above all Skyfathers and any Skyfather would destroy any being in the DB/DBZ/DBGT.

It is true that Thor and Supes are a great match for each other, but RKT would just obliterate current Supes with all his physical, energy, and magical abilities.

Dragoncloud Death to Smoochie!

Originally posted by bean_machine
RKT is Rune King Thor. He is above all Skyfathers and any Skyfather would destroy any being in the DB/DBZ/DBGT.

It is true that Thor and Supes are a great match for each other, but RKT would just obliterate current Supes with all his physical, energy, and magical abilities.

not argueing there.